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The Biggest Reason We Are Starting A Rebuild


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That was the point of the post. The past 7 years haven’t been close to good enough. The only position we draft well is OL. From the years 07-13 we hit on a lot of draft picks including upper echelon guys like Gronk, Jones, Hightower, etc..
Sorry I misunderstood your post. At this point I split Bill's GM career into thirds and the first 2/3 was A+ level. The last third I think he's lucky to get a D+. From 2014 on he has made a few questionable trades, let a few guys walk who were questionable, and some bad drafting and cap management.
 
Sorry I misunderstood your post. At this point I split Bill's GM career into thirds and the first 2/3 was A+ level. The last third I think he's lucky to get a D+. From 2014 on he has made a few questionable trades, let a few guys walk who were questionable, and some bad drafting and cap management.
Did you honestly just state that you would give BB a D+ for his last 7 or so years as a GM when the team had the greatest run of success in the history of the league? Being a GM is a lot more than just draft picks. In this D+ stretch BB acquired numerous players that played critical roles in their repeated AFCCG appearances, 4 Super Bowls and 3 victories. - Malcom Brown, Browner, Revis,, Gilmore, Trey Flowers, Thuney, Van Noy.... he continued to dominate the extra comp pick process by trading for players like Trent Brown on the cheap and allowing them to leave when the cost was too much yet still recouped their trade cost. He smartly moved on from Revis after he helped him hang their 4th banner. There is no doubt he has generally done poorly on his top picks since 2014 and that the team needs an influx of talent but he has positioned the Pats with a tremendous amount of cap space at a time when the cap will be dropping for the 1st time in history. If BB can find that next QB the Pats can be back in contention as early as next year. Sorry that I do not share your high level of doom on the prospects of this franchise.
 
Did you honestly just state that you would give BB a D+ for his last 7 or so years as a GM when the team had the greatest run of success in the history of the league? Being a GM is a lot more than just draft picks. In this D+ stretch BB acquired numerous players that played critical roles in their repeated AFCCG appearances, 4 Super Bowls and 3 victories. - Malcom Brown, Browner, Revis,, Gilmore, Trey Flowers, Thuney, Van Noy.... he continued to dominate the extra comp pick process by trading for players like Trent Brown on the cheap and allowing them to leave when the cost was too much yet still recouped their trade cost. He smartly moved on from Revis after he helped him hang their 4th banner. There is no doubt he has generally done poorly on his top picks since 2014 and that the team needs an influx of talent but he has positioned the Pats with a tremendous amount of cap space at a time when the cap will be dropping for the 1st time in history. If BB can find that next QB the Pats can be back in contention as early as next year. Sorry that I do not share your high level of doom on the prospects of this franchise.
His 2014 offseason and Gilmore are really the only things keeping him from failing as far as I’m concerned.

No one will ever convince me we maximized Jimmy’s trade value. He got fleeced for Sanu. Eric Rowe was a bad trade. Josh Gordon as far as I’m concerned was a bad trade as he flaked out when they needed him. Bennett basically was brought here to waste cap space. Kony Ealy cost them a second to third round swap to be waived in camp. He gave away Hollister who would easily be our number one TE this year and last.

In free agency he just decided he wasn’t going to bother getting an NFL caliber TE after he showed up late to the party for Jared Cook. He’s continually whiffed at getting backup offensive lineman trading for Russell Bodine who was on the team about a week and Veldheer who god knows what happened there. He actually allowed a 42 year old QB to have his blind side protected by Marshall Newhouse. He let Akiem Hicks walk for not much money. He signed AB and that was a disaster that cost us $9 million for one game. Once again he let Brady walk with absolutely no plan at quarterback. That right there alone should knock him down a full letter grade.

Add that to some major draft busts and under performers in that stretch along with bungling the cap in the last year or so and I think he’s right around a D+ as a GM in the last 7 years.
 
His 2014 offseason and Gilmore are really the only things keeping him from failing as far as I’m concerned.

No one will ever convince me we maximized Jimmy’s trade value. He got fleeced for Sanu. Eric Rowe was a bad trade. Josh Gordon as far as I’m concerned was a bad trade as he flaked out when they needed him. Bennett basically was brought here to waste cap space. Kony Ealy cost them a second to third round swap to be waived in camp. He gave away Hollister who would easily be our number one TE this year and last.

In free agency he just decided he wasn’t going to bother getting an NFL caliber TE after he showed up late to the party for Jared Cook. He’s continually whiffed at getting backup offensive lineman trading for Russell Bodine who was on the team about a week and Veldheer who god knows what happened there. He actually allowed a 42 year old QB to have his blind side protected by Marshall Newhouse. He let Akiem Hicks walk for not much money. He signed AB and that was a disaster that cost us $9 million for one game. Once again he let Brady walk with absolutely no plan at quarterback. That right there alone should knock him down a full letter grade.

Add that to some major draft busts and under performers in that stretch along with bungling the cap in the last year or so and I think he’s right around a D+ as a GM in the last 7 years.
I feel for you buddy if this stretch has been so bad for you. Malcolm Brown never made a big play in his life, Flowers didn't sack Ryan to save the day, Chris Hogan didn't catch a 3rd and 10 from the goal line to keep team alive, Sony did not have the best postseason a RB has ever had for the Patriots. I guess none of these player moves had any impact on the team having 62 regular season wins from 2014 - 2019 and 3 Championships. You and I clearly define success much differently.
 
I feel for you buddy if this stretch has been so bad for you. Malcolm Brown never made a big play in his life, Flowers didn't sack Ryan to save the day, Chris Hogan didn't catch a 3rd and 10 from the goal line to keep team alive, Sony did not have the best postseason a RB has ever had for the Patriots. I guess none of these player moves had any impact on the team having 62 regular season wins from 2014 - 2019 and 3 Championships. You and I clearly define success much differently.
This is what everything devolves into. “Huh huh six rings huhh”. Brady being the best to ever do it is the main reason those teams were so successful in spite of the talent diminishing on the roster as a whole. The cornerstone of those teams was Brady, Gronk, White, McCourty, Hightower, and Edelman. Of all those guys White is the only one who was drafted in the last 7 years and coincidentally the only skill position player drafted that’s been any good since 2014. Chris Hogan had a solid year and a half. Can Noy was a great scheme for and great trade for us. Trey Flowers was a great player but as with a lot of the higher end talents Bill didn’t want to give him a second contract. As for Malcolm Brown he never made a big play in his life. The talent started aging and drying up in 2018 and wasn’t replaced with young player via the draft and now we are playing practice squad receivers and healthy scratch rookies as usual and basically one LB playing who is in over his head. Outside of the Jets this may be the worst roster top to bottom and that’s on Bill.
 
The biggest reason we are beginning a rebuild is the first picks we drafted from 2014 to now.

2014 - Dominic Easley (1st round): bust
2015 - Malcom Brown (1st round): below average
2016 - Cyrus Jones (2nd round): bust
2017 - Derek Rivers (3rd round): bust
2018 - Isiah Wynn (1st round): average
2019 - N’Keal Harry (1st round): looking like a bust
2020 - Kyle Dugger (2nd round): to be determined

We completely whiffed on 5 of our 7 first picks since 2014. Those are the picks you need to pick studs. Before 2014 Belichick nailed many of those first picks including Seymour, Mankins, McCourty, Jones, Warren, Mayo, Chung, Solder, and Collins.
That 2017 Kony Ealy trade is an underrated awful trade. Kamara was right there. Perfect fit for the Patriots
 
You’re the one cherry picking. I did a direct comparison of our first picks made. You cherry picked players who weren’t. There’s a better chance of talent in the early rounds.

You want to look at above average players from 2014 - 2020 vs prior 7 years?

2014-2020 Above Average Standout Players via the Draft

James White
Trey Flowers
Shaq Mason
Joe Thuney

other average to above average players

Isaiah Wynn
Michael Onwenu (could become standout)
Jimmy G
Damien Harris (to early to tell)


2007 - 2014 Above Average Players via the Draft

Jerod Mayo
Matthew Slater
Julian Edelman
Patrick Chung
Sebastian Vollmer
Donte Hightower
Chandler Jones
Gronk
Aaron Hernandez
Devin McCourty
Jamie Collins
Marcus Cannon

other average to above average players
Nate Solder
Logan Ryan
Nate Ebner
Shane Vereen
Duron Harmon

Pretty clear to see that we had much better drafts prior to 2013.

It looks especially bad from 05-08 and 2013-now.
 
We are spoiled because we get crappy players drafted highly every year?

How do you quantify highly?? Consider for the period in question, in the captioned period of time the Pats have had 5 first round draft picks and in one year their first pick was in the 3rd round.. despite what some fans believe is the ineptitude of BB there are 5 SB appearances in this period, winning 3... but, but, but he drafts like crap and can't evaluate talent is a total stretch. Could BB have done better, of course, but if was a fans view all of this through that rosey rear view mirror it gets a tad distorted....

'14 Easley #29
Garapolo #62

'15 M. Brown #32
Richards #64

'16 C. Jones #60

'17 Rivers #83

'18 Wynn #23
Michel #31

'19 Harry #32
J. WIlliams #45

'20 Duggar #37
Uche #60
 
This is what everything devolves into. “Huh huh six rings huhh”. Brady being the best to ever do it is the main reason those teams were so successful in spite of the talent diminishing on the roster as a whole. The cornerstone of those teams was Brady, Gronk, White, McCourty, Hightower, and Edelman. Of all those guys White is the only one who was drafted in the last 7 years and coincidentally the only skill position player drafted that’s been any good since 2014. Chris Hogan had a solid year and a half. Can Noy was a great scheme for and great trade for us. Trey Flowers was a great player but as with a lot of the higher end talents Bill didn’t want to give him a second contract. As for Malcolm Brown he never made a big play in his life. The talent started aging and drying up in 2018 and wasn’t replaced with young player via the draft and now we are playing practice squad receivers and healthy scratch rookies as usual and basically one LB playing who is in over his head. Outside of the Jets this may be the worst roster top to bottom and that’s on Bill.
Winning the Super Bowl is the goal every year so when you actually do win it you may look back and think some of the roster management actually worked out. We all understand that "winning the draft" is obviously the most important thing but I personally find on field success a nice consolation prize. If the current stretch was a D+ am curious how you rated prior period an A+? Illegal Contact already listed many of his prior draft misses in the earlier years and he clearly drafted poorly from 2006 - 2008 (even worse than recent stretch) and made those horrible trades for Derrick Burgess and Albert Haynesworth. Traded Branch to Seattle leaving them short at WR in 2006. And the team did not win a title from 2005 - 2013.

My personal view is BB has always had plenty of hits and misses but has collectively been the best in the business. The lack of success with AB and Sanu last year really hurt and along with Harry's struggles has left them woefully short of difference makers at WR. I am glad BB chose to rebuild and clean up the cap vs trying to patch together 2020. The team clearly needs a QB and that remains priority #1 but if they can fix that spot I really do not think the other holes should be that difficult to fill. Fatty on the DL, TE (hopefully a kid emerges) and a WR. RB, OL and DB groups are all strengths. With plenty of cap space in a year when multiple teams will be forced to purge the team is well positioned to be competitive again next year and be a Super Bowl contender in 2022. (assuming QB is in place)
 
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I feel for you buddy if this stretch has been so bad for you. Malcolm Brown never made a big play in his life, Flowers didn't sack Ryan to save the day, Chris Hogan didn't catch a 3rd and 10 from the goal line to keep team alive, Sony did not have the best postseason a RB has ever had for the Patriots. I guess none of these player moves had any impact on the team having 62 regular season wins from 2014 - 2019 and 3 Championships. You and I clearly define success much differently.
You are wasting your time. For many of these guys who hate Bill, it's only the draft and nothing else. Nothing.
 
How do you quantify highly?? Consider for the period in question, in the captioned period of time the Pats have had 5 first round draft picks and in one year their first pick was in the 3rd round.. despite what some fans believe is the ineptitude of BB there are 5 SB appearances in this period, winning 3... but, but, but he drafts like crap and can't evaluate talent is a total stretch. Could BB have done better, of course, but if was a fans view all of this through that rosey rear view mirror it gets a tad distorted....

'14 Easley #29
Garapolo #62

'15 M. Brown #32
Richards #64

'16 C. Jones #60

'17 Rivers #83

'18 Wynn #23
Michel #31

'19 Harry #32
J. WIlliams #45

'20 Duggar #37
Uche #60
Easley was Bill's worst pick he ever made. Jimmy he carried for 3.5 years and didn't maximize the return he likely could have.

Brown was average as average can be. Basically the Sony Michel of DT's. We won't even get into Jordan Richards.

Cyrus Jones was horrendous at everything he did.

Rivers was a third round pick who can't stay healthy.

Wynn has been above average when he is actually healthy. Michel like I said is a complete JAG who shouldn't take a single snap away from Harris as far as I am concerned.

Harry looks lost and can't get open with a new starting QB as well as with that big meanie Brady. Joejuan Williams looks to be heading towards Bustville as his snaps are limited after spending most of last year as a healthy scratch (a tradition for our second round picks).

Duggar and Uche I will not cast any judgement on as they have been in the league for 30 seconds.

Are these picks supposed to prove a point or something? They're all bad because they were late firsts or second rounders? If that is the case that is ridiculous because plenty of good players end up going in the same area every single year. Like I have said about 20 times now. Yes we won games and Super Bowls in that span. Yes that is the objective. But in order to keep winning games and Super Bowls you need to hit on young cheap talented players in the draft. Both these things can be true. Bill won't see this. It is okay for you to admit he has had a rough stretch.
 
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Winning the Super Bowl is the goal every year so when you actually do win it you may look back and think some of the roster management actually worked out. We all understand that "winning the draft" is obviously the most important thing but I personally find on field success a nice consolation prize. If the current stretch was a D+ am curious how you rated prior period an A+? Illegal Contact already listed many of his prior draft misses in the earlier years and he clearly drafted poorly from 2006 - 2008 (even worse than recent stretch) and made those horrible trades for Derrick Burgess and Albert Haynesworth. Traded Branch to Seattle leaving them short at WR in 2006. And the team did not win a title from 2005 - 2013.

My personal view is BB has always had plenty of hits and misses but has collectively been the best in the business. The lack of success with AB and Sanu last year really hurt and along with Harry's struggles has left them woefully short of difference makers at WR. I am glad BB chose to rebuild and clean up the cap vs trying to patch together 2020. The team clearly needs a QB and that remains priority #1 but if they can fix that spot I really do not think the other holes should be that difficult to fill. Fatty on the DL, TE (hopefully a kid emerges) and a WR. RB, OL and DB groups are all strengths. With plenty of cap space in a year when multiple teams will be forced to purge the team is well positioned to be competitive again next year and be a Super Bowl contender in 2022. (assuming QB is in place)
I agree with your second paragraph pretty much (aside from RB's being a strength). Overall as a whole I think Bill is one of the best, if not the best, GM since the salary cap was implemented (which obviously made things much harder to build a roster) but I think the last few years he hasn't been batting anywhere near as high in all aspects of general management of a football team. The thing that worries me is I don’t think finding a QB is an easy thing to do. It's hard to judge Bill on the quarterbacks he has taken because other than potentially Garoppolo, he likely drafted all of them as backups. Aside from Hoyer and Brissett (and obviously Brady) none of them ever turned out to be much in the league as far as backups but I would assume Bill knows what separates a potential career backup from a starter/franchise QB. The roster is in a pretty bad state right now but I agree with you that with the cap room he has if he is able to find a QB, which is a big if, we could be right back in the mix in a couple years.
 
How do you quantify highly?? Consider for the period in question, in the captioned period of time the Pats have had 5 first round draft picks and in one year their first pick was in the 3rd round.. despite what some fans believe is the ineptitude of BB there are 5 SB appearances in this period, winning 3... but, but, but he drafts like crap and can't evaluate talent is a total stretch. Could BB have done better, of course, but if was a fans view all of this through that rosey rear view mirror it gets a tad distorted....

'14 Easley #29
Garapolo #62

'15 M. Brown #32
Richards #64

'16 C. Jones #60

'17 Rivers #83

'18 Wynn #23
Michel #31

'19 Harry #32
J. WIlliams #45

'20 Duggar #37
Uche #60
I love posts like these. Especially when they come from people who have heaped praise for BB when he hits on those top picks. That’s fine. But you should also be able to assign blame when he whiffs. Otherwise, you’re being logically inconsistent.

Citing the Super Bowl appearances and wins as a counter argument is looking more and more ridiculous by the week since it’s become increasingly obvious that it was more due to one player than it was the young talent that BB has drafted of late. As a matter of fact, we should be wondering how many more Super Bowls we could have won had it not been for lean draft years from 2005-2008 and from 2013-current.
 
Caserio isn't up to be sole GM. Can we have consultants back in Reese or Dimitroff or Pioli
 
Caserio isn't up to be sole GM. Can we have consultants back in Reese or Dimitroff or Pioli
I’d take Reese back in a heart beat. Dimitroff or Pioli? I’d rather have Pioli by a mile. I’d also get Dorsey on the phone and see what he wants in order to come to New England, be that voice in BB’s ear, and provide a new perspective. Caserio is trash IMO. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the drafts went to **** when Reese departed and his role became elevated.
 
You are wasting your time. For many of these guys who hate Bill, it's only the draft and nothing else. Nothing.
Well it's only the most important process of team-building, so...
 
It's sad to trash a great team builder after back to back dynasties. Personally, I'm more interested in the next one and have ZERO interest in an autopsy of a year that is still incomplete. Be real. At the beginning of the season you probably would have thought 3-4 was possible at this time of the schedule. We were teased by 3 incomplete comebacks. Each year they lose a game like the Denver one. It doesn't mean the sky is falling. If this season doesn't meet expectations (whatever they are) then its on to next year.
 
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