JOSH GORDON REINSTATED

[JetFan79]

He can, he's active Sunday. As the 50 time consecutive offseason champs, you should know this.

Goodell: We are all rooting for Josh Gordon to succeed

Gordon will also be allowed to attend, but not play, in the Patriots’ preseason game against the Panthers on August 22.

 

[Ring 6]

Mate, they are comparing two sets of data, one for 11 games and one for 8 games......... with enough plays across both games to make them statistically relevant with a low p-value and a reliability on the variable changed. And the variable changed was Gordon.

You seriously think that’s the only variable?
How about:
Edelman
The accepted fact that the patriots start slow
Competition 3 of 8 without him were playoff games
Opponent. How does counting the Buffalo game where we ran for 275 and didn’t need to throw as 12.5% of one sample make them even? That game alone accounts for half the difference.
And just the general variability of yardage stats including more losses in the Gordon games which means more passes.
In other words Gordon is far from the only variable.

So clearly when you are comparing large data sets, one with Gordon and one without Gordon, you can make realistic conclusion. Unless you can show that over the two data sets there was something else that changed significantly (weather, opponents, injury to someone etc etc). Till then the conclusion has merit and can stand.

I just showed that there were many

We did this analysis all the time to demonstrate Gronk's dominance (Brady games or rating with and without Gronk etc).

No WE didn’t

 

[Ring 6]

You elevate what he did within the context of what few others have done for the Patriots.

Malcolm Mitchell caught 6 passes for 70 yards in Super Bowl 51. Just looking at receiving stats over 53 Super Bowls, that performance is simply "ok."

But once you factor in that he's still the only rookie WR to catch a pass from Tom Brady in what is now 9 Super Bowls, the trust Tom showed in him in the 4th quarter with the game on the line, I don't know how you can think of his performance as anything but excellent.

Considering the Pats history with WRs, Gordon's lack of games played for almost half a decade and his hammy, yes I think his season was close to excellent. At the very least, it was much better than just ok. If he doesn't improve this year, it's all on him.

If your argument is you are grading on an excuse curve, I never have and never will, so we are talking about 2 different things.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, chill out man.

I’m chill.

 

[Bruins29]

Only 3 WR in Tom Brady's starting years have put up 1000 yard seasons in their first year and all had full training camp and pre season and week 1/2:
The GOAT WR
The GOAT Slot WR
Brandon Cooks who has put up over a 1000 yards on three different teams in 3 years.

Only 1 other WR has over 1000 yards in a season in this time period - Julian Edelman and it took him 5 years to do it.

To recap - Josh Gordon- 2018:
10 NFL games in the last 5 years
Comes into the Pats O week 3 with no: OTA, Mini Camp, Training camp, Pre Season or week 1/2
Injured Hamstring
Adds 65 yards of offense to the GOAT QB per game
On pace for 1048 yards
Also, Gordon - Yards Per Target 2018 - 10.6
$600K cap hit

FYI
Randy Moss - Yards Per Target each year he was here:
2007 9.3
2008 8.1
2009 9.2
2010 6.3

Brandon Cooks Yards Per Target the year he was here
2017 9.5

 

[Ring 6]

Another point of excellence, given the situation!

.

The excellence of play in the field is not influenced by what you earn.

Your value to the team is but when 2 players face up and the one making more money wins 75% of the time the other guy isn’t excellent if he is being paid the minimum salary.

 

[Ring 6]

Only 3 WR in Tom Brady's starting years have put up 1000 yard seasons in their first year and all had full training camp and pre season and week 1/2:
The GOAT WR
The GOAT Slot WR
Brandon Cooks who has put up over a 1000 yards on three different teams in 3 years.

Only 1 other WR has over 1000 yards in a season in this time period - Julian Edelman and it took him 5 years to do it.

To recap - Josh Gordon- 2018:
10 NFL games in the last 5 years
Comes into the Pats O week 3 with no: OTA, Mini Camp, Training camp, Pre Season or week 1/2
Injured Hamstring
Adds 65 yards of offense to the GOAT QB per game
On pace for 1048 yards
Also, Gordon - Yards Per Target 2018 - 10.6
$600K cap hit

FYI
Randy Moss - Yards Per Target each year he was here:
2007 9.3
2008 8.1
2009 9.2
2010 6.3

Brandon Cooks Yards Per Target the year he was here
2017 9.5

In the games that josh Gordon played was he an excellent, dominant, sensational, all pro level WR?
Simple question.

 

[Bruins29]

In the games that josh Gordon played was he an excellent, dominant, sensational, all pro level WR?
Simple question.

His contribution to the team was excellent given the circumstances. His cap hit was the icing on the cake. I am talking about his performance....not the disappearing act. If he had not been on pace for the 1000 or was being paid 4-5 mil a year....my opinion would be different...or at least from a value standpoint.

This is JMO. I respect your opinion too. I just look at what usually happens when anyone tries to contribute with no camp here.

Like I said we can put up a poll and see what the football hobbyists here think about it. Might be interesting.

 

[Ring 6]

So What Gordon did isnt "excellent" even though all stats and historical data pretty much conclude he was...but those stats and data that prove it arn't the correct stats. And there needs to be more context.

ooookkkkk

Here is some context for you.

How many WRs have come here and put up 1000 yards or were on pace to in their FIRST year

VS

How many WR came here (for their first year) and couldnt even make the team, get the playbook, be a factor or contribute at a 1000 yard a year pace?

Also, how many WR did anything without a camp in their first year?

How many of those receivers who couldn’t make the team see expected to be excellent? You are narrowing the qualifier to castoffs. Being better than castoffs isn’t excellent.

There are 64 starting WRs in the NFL (actually more because 3wr bases are common but we will ignite that).
I would suppose top 10% would be an agreeable definition of excellent.
Are you saying josh Gordon was one of the 6 best WRs in the NFL?

 

[TommyD4207]

Last I heard he can only attend the game, but cannot play.

The game is Saturday.

As of Sunday he is active.

Hes eligible to play the 3rd preseason game if they choose to.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

In the games that josh Gordon played was he an excellent, dominant, sensational, all pro level WR?
Simple question.

I'm assuming 99.9% of us think Gordon's season last year falls somewhere between that and ok. There's a very large space between those two rankings.

 

[patman52]

Can't you guys PM each other so that the rest of us can enjoy the thread.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

The game is Saturday.

As of Sunday he is active.

Hes eligible to play the 3rd preseason game if they choose to.

He's not, they already said he can't play August 22.

 

[Biffins]

In the games that josh Gordon played was he an excellent, dominant, sensational, all pro level WR?
Simple question.

He was excellent. He wasn't All-Pro. Happy now?

 

[Ring 6]

His contribution to the team was excellent given the circumstances. His cap hit was the icing on the cake. I am talking about his performance....not the disappearing act.

You are grading on a curve. “Given the circumstances” I am talking about his play on the field. He was not an excellent WR.
I could not care less about rationalizations and excuses. He went out on the field and played. Judge his play. Not the excuses.

If he had not been on pace for the 1000 or was being paid 4-5 mil a year....my opinion would be different...or at least from a value standpoint.

1000 yards from a wr is not excellent.
Excellence isn’t adjusted for salary savings.

This is JMO. I respect your opinion too. I just look at what usually happens when anyone tries to contribute with no camp here.

Like I said we can put up a poll and see what the football hobbyists here think about it. Might be interesting.

He did fine. But he wasn’t a dominant player resembling what he was in 2013 or the stud people expected.
He contributed. He wasnt excellent.

 

[Bruins29]

There are 64 starting WRs in the NFL (actually more because 3wr bases are common but we will ignite that).
I would suppose top 10% would be an agreeable definition of excellent.
Are you saying josh Gordon was one of the 6 best WRs in the NFL?

Sure, and how many of those WR:
Were 100% healthy
Had a camp and Preseason
Took 5 years off
Have mental problems
Returned to a team and system and QB they knew well.
Were a feature, franchise player making a ton of dough
etc etc etc

We can play that game all day. I dont think we need to do that. Lets put up a poll HERE and see what the Brilliant minds HERE think. Isnt that how things work. What do the people think and agree upon?

 

[Ring 6]

I'm assuming 99.9% of us think Gordon's season last year falls somewhere between that and ok. There's a very large space between those two rankings.

Huh?
1000 yard WR is OK. Do you disagree with that? Ok give it another term. But it’s not excellent.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure, and how many of those WR:
Were 100% healthy
Had a camp and Preseason
Took 5 years off
Have mental problems
Returned to a team and system and QB they knew well.
Were a feature, franchise player making a ton of dough
etc etc etc

We can play that game all day. I dont think we need to do that. Lets put up a poll HERE and see what the Brilliant minds HERE think. Isnt that how things work. What do the people think and agree upon?

I don’t care about excuses.
There are no do overs. He went out and played. You can judge his play against his peers.

Arguing that it was harder for him to do well doesn’t mean he did better than he did.

If a baseball player is an excellent hitter who normally hits .340 with 40 HRs then has a season where he hits .280 with 25 hrs he wasn’t excellent that season. If he was dealing with an injury perhaps he should be lauded for doing ok despite the injury. But he wasn’t excellent.
That’s the point I am trying to make here.
Excuse are excuse. Ok with excuses doesnt equal excellent.

Ok with excuses may bode well for future excellence but that’s not the topic.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

 

[Ring 6]

Sure, and how many of those WR:
Were 100% healthy
Had a camp and Preseason
Took 5 years off
Have mental problems
Returned to a team and system and QB they knew well.
Were a feature, franchise player making a ton of dough
etc etc etc

We can play that game all day. I dont think we need to do that. Lets put up a poll HERE and see what the Brilliant minds HERE think. Isnt that how things work. What do the people think and agree upon?

One other point.
When you play a game do you get extra points for any of the excuses you listed?
He went out on the field with that baggage.
Evaluating his play should not be graded on a baggage curve.

Evaluating his future potential can be but that isnt what we as taking about.