JOSH GORDON REINSTATED

[Bruins29]

I’m not sure what you think I said.

I didn’t say I don’t want him. I didn’t say he wasn’t good.
I said he wasn’t 2013 Gordon and that wasn’t just because he was “learning the offense”

That is not what you said. Anyway - So he did not have the 14th greatest season all time by a WR ever. And because he did not have the 14th greatest season ever his performance wasnt "excellent"

ooookkkkk

 

[Biffins]

We will see. No one knows where Thomas stands. Moss didn’t practice at all in camp in 2007.

Yes he did!

 

[Ring 6]

Well I guess summer workouts practicing all the different routes, getting timing down doesn’t constitute practice.

Did moss go through that?

Let me ask you this. What is a better way to be game ready?
Attend mini camps and sit out most practices for a month
Or practice every day with special attention on you learning the offense and play in games for 2 months?

Shouldn’t Gordon after 6 games be more game ready than moss in his first one?

 

[JetFan79]

I think your numbers are quite high. This ain't Cleveland. The Patriots have a deep and diverse system.

And unfortunately,regarding your first sentence, it IS a big "if". No one should take anything for granted in this situation.

.

Except he was basically on that pace last year.

2019 Fantasy Football Draft Prep: Will Josh Gordon's return unleash a superstar?

From the article...

Gordon, who famously led the league in receiving yards back in 2013 in just 14 games, saw time in 11 contests with the Patriots in 2018. It took him a little while to find his footing, as he wasn't targeted more than five times in a game until Week 5, his second game with the Patriots. Over his next nine games, however, Gordon caught 37 of 64 targets for 669 yards and three touchdowns, a near-1,200 pace, on better than 10 yards per target. That's impressive stuff considering he was joining a complex offense in the middle of the season.

Now, he's got nearly a year under his belt with the Patriots playbook, and spent time working out with Tom Brady in the offseason — one of those signs that the Patriots expected him to be cleared at some point. Gordon averaged 65.5 yards per game with the Patriots, and honestly, that might be closer to his floor than his ceiling.
Gordon proved he still has plenty left in the tank in 2018 and has been productive whenever he has been on the field even given all the ups and downs. Sure, there's been nothing close to that incredible 2013 season, but in 16 games over the last two seasons — we'll throw out the one game he played a minor role for the Browns before they traded him in 2019 — he's had 1,055 yards on 58 catches. And again, that was being thrown into the fire mid-season, without much familiarity with the team around him or his quarterback.

How high can the ceiling be? Well, we wouldn't expect him to be the Patriots' top target in the passing game as long as Julian Edelman (108 targets in 12 games last season) is around, but the Patriots have plenty of targets to replace from last season: 72 from Gronkowski, 55 from Chris Hogan, 28 from Cordarrelle Patterson … There's room for Gordon, to be sure.

And, given the efficiency Gordon showed with Brady last season, he won't need a ton of targets to be productive, especially since he might be the lone true deep threat on the team. Let's say Edelman gets to 135-140 targets in a full season, and Gordon settles in as the No. 2 option with 125. At last season's catch and yards-per-target rate, that's 72 catches for close to 1,300 yards. And, with no Gronkowski around, Gordon is going to look like an awfully enticing red zone option for Tom Brady, so something in the range of nine touchdowns isn't out of the question. That kind of hypothetical line — 72-1300-9 — would have been good for the No. 13 WR last season.

 

[Biffins]

C'mon - - he came into a new system completely cold and, in short order, learned it on the fly and became a trusted weapon for Brady. He's now been studying the route tree for almost a year and will now have 3 weeks of preseason prep to polish it all up.

He's not Randy (no one is - not even Antonio Brown or Julio Jones) but he is nowhere near Brandon Lafell either. Let's keep it in proper perspective.

.

Hey man. We won a SB with Lafell.............

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I’m not sure what you think I said.

I didn’t say I don’t want him. I didn’t say he wasn’t good.
I said he wasn’t 2013 Gordon and that wasn’t just because he was “learning the offense”

Who is arguing he would have been 2013 Gordon if not for having to learn the offense?

He barely played football for 4 years, clearly wasn't fully healthy and was thrown in late in an extremely complicated offense to pick up and in 11 games had a better season than any rookie WR we've had. That's worth being excited about.

I still don't expect 2013 Gordon this year. But I expect better than 2018 Gordon, as we all should.

 

[Bruins29]

What teams was Gordon active against? What other receivers were healthy? What were the pass defense rankings? When did the yards come? Do you have any more context other than a conveniently provided tweet with "MuH 56 yArDs"? I don't ask this to be an ass it's just way too lazy to say "Brady have Gordon Brady play gooder me want Gordon"

Gordon was good last year. Your opinion of excellent vs good or ok or whatever is a dumb point to argue over really because it's such a subjective term. It's just semantics at this point

Ok, so why are you telling just me this? Also, we can configure the poll anyway you want. I just want the opinions of the site. Also, at least I put up some data and context instead of just making a claim out of thin air.

 

[Ring 6]

That is not what you said. Anyway - So he did not have the 14th greatest season all time by a WR ever. And because he did not have the 14th greatest season ever his performance wasnt "excellent"

ooookkkkk

No no no.

I said he wasn’t excellent. I stand by that.

Someone said who would be joining the team early in the season. I said moss was.

That is not comparing Gordon to moss. That is not holding Gordon to the standard of being as good as moss.

That is responding to the excuse with an example of someone who disproves it at lest to an extent.

 

[Biffins]

I disagree. What he did was ok. It wasnt mid season it was week 2. By week 6 playing as much as he did, I don’t buy the excuses

He was ok. Far from amazing.

There were too many 50/50 balls thrown to Gordon for my liking and relying on his physical ability to win them.

 

[Biffins]

Josh has to know this is likely his last chance in the NFL. If he washes out of the Pats system he has no shot to succeed anywhere else at this point. Hopefully he and the Pats (who really seem invested in his well-being as well as his potential on-field contributions) can come up with a plan everyone can agree on to keep him on the field for 16 games and beyond.

I know he didn't light up the board last year but the fact is the team looked different when he was on the field, and defenses could not ignore him. If Harry becomes what we expect than Josh doesn't have to always be the guy. This WR core is so interesting to me. I feel like after JE11 there won't even be designations for 2-5. They're just going to mix and match a bunch of formations and personnel and drive defenses nuts.

If Gronk was still here I feel like this team could practically punch their ticket. Without him it's hard to ignore the Chiefs, but I would not be the least bit surprised to see Brady hoisting another trophy (probably in part because of the 4-TE offense BB will roll out in January when no one is looking).

He probably thought last year was his last chance. And yet.............

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Ok, so why are you telling just me this? Also, we can configure the poll anyway you want. I just want the opinions of the site. Also, at least I put up some data and context instead of just making a claim out of thin air.

Idk I guess I am telling this less to you and more to all other 10 people throwing out the same stat without context

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I enjoyed you over there. But I do have to agree it is like going over to the elephant graveyard

 

[Biffins]

Moss missed all of camp. It’s not that much different.

He didn't.

 

[Ring 6]

Who is arguing he would have been 2013 Gordon if not for having to learn the offense?

Pretty much that’s where you walked in

He barely played football for 4 years, clearly wasn't fully healthy and was thrown in late in an extremely complicated offense to pick up and in 11 games had a better season than any rookie WR we've had. That's worth being excited about.

I still don't expect 2013 Gordon this year. But I expect better than 2018 Gordon, as we all should.

Again you are implying my position is different than it is.
I’ve aaid nothing negative about Gordon’s 2018. I said it was ok not excellent. Do you disagree? Excuses aside?
What he did is what he did. I’m just not going to elevate or diminish what someone does on the field with excuses.
I honestly don’t understand why this is an argument. Well I do because people in this board just want to twist things into what they aren’t but otherwise there should be no disagreement here.

 

[Ring 6]

He didn't.

Yeah he pretty much did. People were talking about him being cut

 

[Biffins]

Not to seem like I'm picking arguments with you but ...and correct me if I'm wrong (lol no need to say) but wasn't Moss's main job just to blow the top off the defense? How complex were his offensive responsibilities, due to just his freak combination of talent, speed, and athleticism compared to today's offense? This isn't to say "Moss was dumber" I just don't think that the two WRs skillsets are close enough to compare learning curves fairly

Moss ran TONS of intermediate and even slot routes...........

 

[Biffins]

Yeah he pretty much did. People were talking about him being cut

Come on man.

Randy Moss brings excitement to training camp, but Asante Samuel may stay away

 

[Bruins29]

Idk I guess I am telling this less to you and more to all other 10 people throwing out the same stat without context

So What Gordon did isnt "excellent" even though all stats and historical data pretty much conclude he was...but those stats and data that prove it arn't the correct stats. And there needs to be more context.

ooookkkkk

Here is some context for you.

How many WRs have come here and put up 1000 yards or were on pace to in their FIRST year

VS

How many WR came here (for their first year) and couldnt even make the team, get the playbook, be a factor or contribute at a 1000 yard a year pace?

Also, how many WR did anything without a camp in their first year?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Did moss go through that?

Let me ask you this. What is a better way to be game ready?
Attend mini camps and sit out most practices for a month
Or practice every day with special attention on you learning the offense and play in games for 2 months?

Shouldn’t Gordon after 6 games be more game ready than moss in his first one?

I’m not sure what Moss and brady did over the summer with regards to workouts that’s why I threw a questionmark behind it.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Moss ran TONS of intermediate and even slot routes...........

Yea no kidding but I think 2007s offense hadn't yet evolved into the complex monster it is today. I mean for **** sake the year before we made it to the championship game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney. It was just such a loaded and talented team