Wtf happened with Brissett deal?

[Ring 6]

Whetyher or not you agree with a given trade, the trades that are made are what sets the market. The next time someone needs an average quarterback, Tyrod Taylor's price will be a reference point for negotiations.

Also let's be honest, not only did Taylor get very lucky to make the playoffs, but he had an excellent running game to work with, and a defense that had a lot of strong points.

Put Taylor on those Colts, and Brissett on those Bills, and I wonder how the records would look. They're both game manager types, the difference is Tyrod Taylor had a fairly talented roster and a coach who at least knows how to get out of his own way most of the time, and Brissett had scorched earth in the aftermath of the Ryan Grigson era, and the worst coach in the NFL at the time.

I do not feel these things should be compared as directly in the way you're trying to do.

That’s a lot of words just to say you compare Brissett to a guy he isn’t comparable to.

 

[Wordsmyth]

There's a reason that people call me Coach Bill

I wouldn't trust you to coach mighty mites. You're nothing but a trolling troublemaker. Now go find a hobby where you don't exist for the sole purpose of ticking people off.

 

[TomPatriot]

Judge Berman releasing the transcripts was a nice turning point.

And Columbia (among others) destroying Exponent with actual science. Ouch.

 

[TomPatriot]

I truly hope you educated yourself on the US Court System since Goodell's authority has nothing to do with the ruling of that case. The Patriots were found guilty twice - the second after their appeal. I get being a fan of a team, but courts don't lie.

If Ian created a button for “all time worst post,” I would use it here.

 

[LaterGator]

Hail Hydra
I truly hope you educated yourself on the US Court System since Goodell's authority has nothing to do with the ruling of that case. The Patriots were found guilty twice - the second after their appeal. I get being a fan of a team, but courts don't lie.

cmasspatsfan said

You're an embarrassment, if anyone knows the defamegate saga. It's the posters on this board, you should go back to your colts or jets board and stop trolling.

Goodell's authority was the only issue. That was the conclusion of the review panel. Which also said Berman should NOT have looked at the evidence only the CBA.

The science proved the balls started at 12.5 psi which the NFL tried to muddy with the BS in the Wells report. I'm a Chem engineer when I saw Mortensen's report I had doubts as that was too much pressure decrease. However when the true data was released it was obvious. The NFL lied!

As far as Texts go Brady specifically told the equipmeent people the balls should be set between 12.5 and 13,5.

Every text from the destroyed phone to a Pats employee was recovered. There was nothing not a damn thing. When the Patd offered to turn that over to the NFL, the NFL said "nope not necessary".

 

[Joker]

HAIL HIDEOUS!

 

[LaterGator]

Huh? You think the team didn't know JG would likely be moved at some point? Or at the very least lost in the following off-season? Where the hell are you getting your information from?

Not during the season for sure. If they were considering that they logically would have kept Brissett rather than trying to improve the receiving corps.

Adding 2 and 2 is not a hard thing to do.

 

[Oswlek]

Not during the season for sure. If they were considering that they logically would have kept Brissett rather than trying to improve the receiving corps.

Adding 2 and 2 is not a hard thing to do.

You seem to be saying they didn't expect him to start for the Patriots, the comment I responded to was saying NE was unaware that Brissett would start for the Colts, which is absurd.

 

[maineman209]

(which is what Philips Dorsett was, a draft bust who probably getting cut)

Cut?

Dorsett was the Colts #2WR and their third most productive pass-catcher in 2016. Even if they didn't think he'd ever develop into anything more than a #3/#4, long term, at the beginning of 2017, they still had him under contract for two more seasons, relatively cheaply.

I mean, even the Colts wouldn't be stupid enough to cut him. I'd be kinda surprised they traded him, except for the fact that they desperately needed a better QB than the (healthy) ones they had on the roster.

 

[maineman209]

In spite of the fact that Aikman and a whole bunch of other self-righteous, blowhard Pats-hating ***holes in the media had BB and Brady convicted of high treason within 48 hours of the original breaking news of "improperly inflated footballs", Deflategate was NOT a criminal case.

If it had been a criminal case, it would've been thrown out at pre-trial hearing for lack of evidence ... no rigorously recorded and verifiable before and after measurements, and a very murky chain of custody. The case was so non-existent that a 2nd-year, B-average law student could've gotten a dismissal.

So, the Goodell punished Brady and the Pats for something that there was no way to prove had even happened at all. The ONLY thing that the actual judicial proceedings, appeals and reviews ultimately proved was that Goodell had the authority to do what he did.

 

[luuked]

Not during the season for sure. If they were considering that they logically would have kept Brissett rather than trying to improve the receiving corps.

Adding 2 and 2 is not a hard thing to do.

Of course they knew a move at the deadline was possible. They also projected that JB was not going to be able to backup Brady at a satisfying level. Which is why they moved on from him at the end of his second camp. He was on his way to being cut. Dorsett was a bonus not a priority in any way.

I dont know what to tell you but it is quite obvious what happened. And it seems like you are the one who can't even add the right numbers together.

 

[luuked]

I’m not arguing we traded jimmy g at the wrong time. I’m arguing we could have pushed SF harder for more compensation or another team for a first rounder plus an additional pick based on incentives

Who is your backup QB that comes in after the trade deadline and can run the offense somewhat reliably if you offer JG to another team?

People like to **** on Hoyer but he is not a bad QB. He can become inconsistent and melt down but he still is able to run the same offense. He has experience with the system and most importantly the coaches know what he can and what he cant do. There are not too many unknowns with him which is vital. I get that fans have this almost morbid fascination with players they think "have potential and can be coached up" but from a strategic standpoint you rather have the known average player than an unknown who could go either way because you can build around known strengths and account for weaknesses. Anything is better than a mystery box when you are in the middle of a season.

So when considering compensation you gotta keep in mind that SF ate 10m (?) of Hoyers contract and releases him so we could sign him. This is not a small add-on. Without them doing it most probably there would have been no trade.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Who is your backup QB that comes in after the trade deadline and can run the offense somewhat reliably if you offer JG to another team?

People like to **** on Hoyer but he is not a bad QB. He can become inconsistent and melt down but he still is able to run the same offense. He has experience with the system and most importantly the coaches know what he can and what he cant do. There are not too many unknowns with him which is vital. I get that fans have this almost morbid fascination with players they think "have potential and can be coached up" but from a strategic standpoint you rather have the known average player than an unknown who could go either way because you can build around known strengths and account for weaknesses. Anything is better than a mystery box when you are in the middle of a season.

So when considering compensation you gotta keep in mind that SF ate 10m (?) of Hoyers contract and releases him so we could sign him. This is not a small add-on. Without them doing it most probably there would have been no trade.

Disagree with your take on Hoyer. If Brady went down, Hoyer would be lucky to go 3-13. He is one of the worst QBs in the nfl and is past his prime at age 34.

I get your argument, but Hoyer knowing the system means jack if he’s physically incapable of accomplishing anything in our system because he’s got such a poor aging arm, stares down his first read, and panics in the pocket.

I would like to hear your opinion on QBs in the nfl whom the current version of Hoyer is better than?

 

[luuked]

Disagree with your take on Hoyer. If Brady went down, Hoyer would be lucky to go 3-13. He is one of the worst QBs in the nfl and is past his prime at age 34.

I get your argument, but Hoyer knowing the system means jack if he’s physically incapable of accomplishing anything in our system because he’s got such a poor aging arm, stares down his first read, and panics in the pocket.

When have you seen him play with the 1s in a game when he got to follow a gameplan with the Patriots?

I agree that if Brady has a season ender nothing matters anyway. But your backup QB is also here to be able to get you over a handful series or maybe 2-3 games in case something non-season ending would happen to QB1. And I honestly think that depending on the opponent Josh/BB/Hoyer would be able to survive for 2-4 weeks without throwing the entire season (i. e. going 2-2).

Brissett was clearly unable to run anything close to our offense. Understanding the offense is clearly important otherwise your preseason offense will become your regular season offense (ie. runs and vanilla routes).

 

[LaterGator]

You seem to be saying they didn't expect him to start for the Patriots, the comment I responded to was saying NE was unaware that Brissett would start for the Colts, which is absurd.

Nope I was saying they would not have dealt Brissett at the beginning of the year, if they were sure they were dealing JG in season. My comment had nothing whatsoever to with the Colts QB situation. No idea at all were you got that concept.

BB tried to convince JG to sign a deal even during the season. Bedard wrote about that at BSJ. He traded JG when it was crystal clear JG was not willing to back Brady up even if he was paid more.

 

[Oswlek]

Nope I was saying they would not have dealt Brissett at the beginning of the year, if they were sure they were dealing JG in season. My comment had nothing whatsoever to with the Colts QB situation. No idea at all were you got that concept.

BB tried to convince JG to sign a deal even during the season. Bedard wrote about that at BSJ. He traded JG when it was crystal clear JG was not willing to back Brady up even if he was paid more.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, NE hoped JG would stay. No, this didn't mean they had an expectation that he would stay. Nor did it mean that Brissett's standing was contingent on JG in any way.

 

[mgteich]

Some fans believe that the team is good enough to have a chance at the playoffs even if Brady is injured. Others would stop watching the NFL and go watch wrestling.

When have you seen him play with the 1s in a game when he got to follow a gameplan with the Patriots?

I agree that if Brady has a season ender nothing matters anyway. But your backup QB is also here to be able to get you over a handful series or maybe 2-3 games in case something non-season ending would happen to QB1. And I honestly think that depending on the opponent Josh/BB/Hoyer would be able to survive for 2-4 weeks without throwing the entire season (i. e. going 2-2).

Brissett was clearly unable to run anything close to our offense. Understanding the offense is clearly important otherwise your preseason offense will become your regular season offense (ie. runs and vanilla routes).

 

[luuked]

Some fans believe that the team is good enough to have a chance at the playoffs even if Brady is injured. Others would stop watching the NFL and go watch wrestling.

I am not sure why you disagreed with my point. If Brady suffers a career ender then the season (as in SB title) is most probably not realistic.

But at the same time I honestly believe that -- unless we face a murders row -- the staff and Hoyer could make it through 2-4 weeks without throwing a chance at the playoffs (which going 2-2 would accomplish).

You disagree with that?

 

[varjao]

They jury is still out on Dorsett, I think at this point everybody knows he won't be a top free agent in this league but I think his low numbers are more a function of the Pats environment that takes time for a receiver that comes late in the camp to acclimate, Brady's chemistry, a lot of targets last season, than pure suckage.

The old example, you put him on a Steelers uniform he produces 500 yards.

 

[Simpelton]

This turned out to be yet another embarassing thread where people say laughable things like they’d rather have kept Brissett over Hoyer.

In a vacuum, with no discussion of other team needs, I would rather have Brissett over Hoyer.

Brissett is younger, cost controlled, and still has at least some upside. Once Jimmy G was gone (and we knew Jimmy G was probably going, let's be honest here) having that young apprentice learning behind Brady would have been a good thing.

I have nothing against Hoyer. If we had to lose Jimmy and Jacoby, Hoyer is a fine backup. I do wish we had a young understudy this year in case something goes terribly wrong with the GOAT.

Since we're in uncharted territory with Brady given his age, and Max Kellerman's nonsense aside, one bad injury could end this guy's career at any time, our backup quarterback could feasibly be needed to start for multiple seasons, or at least have the option of being able to do so to prevent other teams with solid QBs to trade from holding our front office to ransom.

So it's time to ensure there's a potential successor in the wings at all times, even if that successor isn't exactly gonna set the world on fire if he has to come in immediately. And as successors go, a young QB with some room to grow is better than the mediocre-to-adequate journeyman that is Brian Hoyer.

So yes, I would rather have a guy with some upside over a guy who's a better fit for Brady's system, but is what he is.