Wtf happened with Brissett deal?

[Simpelton]

There's two discussions going on here, and they seem to be getting muddled and causing some crosstalk.

First there's the original discussion, could we have gotten more from Brissett.

The answer is no. Brissett was a project with a little upside when he was a Patriot. Interesting depth option, worth working with, but not a standout talent in any way. Objectively, from a leaguewide standpoint, Brissett was not interesting at all until he got to Indianapolis. Any value he has now in the minds of fans is value he generated since he left.

The second discussion was sparked by the... special individuals in the forum, and you know who you are (I hope!) who have a tendency to go over the top and proclaim that because a guy isn't a franchise superstar, he "sucks." That sparks a response among the more reasonable of us, because for a rookie in his first full season on a bad team, Brissett wasn't terrible. In fact considering what he had to work with, and the fact that he isn't and never will be elite, he wasn't half bad.

The problem is that in their zeal to defend Belichick (which I think was the primary motivation of the "Brisset Sucks" crowd in the argument) they went over the top and offended some fans who have a sense of fairness and liked what they saw from Brissett after he was thrown to the wolves in Indianapolis. That sparked this second discussion which needs to be considered in its own light.

I don't think anyone but the OP and a couple other more naive fans actually think that we could have gotten a second for Brissett... the timeline for any deal like that just doesn't work when he gained most of his value after he left. But Brissett doesn't "suck" either. He's a middling talent with good size, reasonable speed, a powerful arm and good intangibles, but issues with his mechanics and consistency.

He was worth working with when we had him and we traded him for something we needed badly at the time (receiver depth). He went on to have a pretty typical first season as a starting QB with a new team, with things to both love and hate about his game. Where he goes from here comes down to how hard he works and whether he can change certain of his habits. I wish him luck. But in terms of the trade itself, I think we got fair value for what he was when he was traded.

 

[rochrist]

Down to earth fans acknowledge Brady has developed from his early game manager days into the great QB that helped win five super bowls with great teams and coaching around him. My sentence speaks to the development in a general sense, without comparing the players directly. But if you look at the passer rating... Brady did not eclipse 90 until his 4th season playing. This means Brissett is at least in the same ballpark as game manager and his 82 passer rating. We shall see..

Defense was played under entire different rules back then. In his second year as a starter, Brady led the league in TDs.

You can't remotely compare QB ratings from now with QB ratings from then. Different rules, different game.

 

[Coolade2]

Soooo...... BB has effectively traded not one but two future Tom Bradys away?

And I thought the Garoppolites were delusional.

Comical how people can't follow basic logic. Brissett is in his second year. Did he get cut? No. He's developing. ( Did Brady develop? ). He's still in the league and teams want to acquire him . ... You don't, though huh? ... Lol.

Coolade il l'aime un peu brisssett. He's gonna spit on your petit fours.

Non.. j'essay comprendre les kooky bradyites qui ne veux pas voire q'il a ete un Petit enfant QB en 2001-2002 comme le Brissett a present.

 

[rochrist]

Comical how people can't follow basic logic. Brissett is in his second year. Did he get cut? No. He's developing. ( Did Brady develop? ). He's still in the league and teams want to acquire him . ... You don't, though huh? ... Lol.



Non.. j'essay comprendre les kooky bradyites qui ne veux pas voire q'il a ete un Petit enfant QB en 2001-2002 comme le Brissett a present.

What's comical is you comparing Brissett's development to Brady's.

 

[Coolade2]

What's comical is you comparing Brissett's development to Brady's.

Oh.. you can't handle that... I pointed out that all QBs have that in common, and Brady 2001-2 and Brissett share a few game manager traits. Brissett is actually better than Brady in a few areas like mobility and speed. Ponder that. Lol...

 

[Ring 6]

Oh.. you can't handle that... I pointed out that all QBs have that in common, and Brady and Brissett share a few game manager traits. Brissett is actually better than Brady in a few areas like mobility and speed. Ponder that. Lol...

What does every qb shares that they have to develop have to do with a discussion about a specific qb? Are you going to make “they are both right handed” one of your arguments?

You keep using this phony “game manager” term as if it is meaningful.
Please explain what a “game manager” is, what’s good about it and how you are applying it to call Brissett comparable to tom brady.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Oh.. you can't handle that... I pointed out that all QBs have that in common, and Brady 2001-2 and Brissett share a few game manager traits. Brissett is actually better than Brady in a few areas like mobility and speed. Ponder that. Lol...

Brissett is faster and more mobile than brady. And yet he led the league in sacks taken last year with 52. So obviously his pocket awareness and ability to move around the pocket is lacking. Which is one of Brady’s best strengths.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Oh.. you can't handle that... I pointed out that all QBs have that in common, and Brady and Brissett share a few game manager traits. Brissett is actually better than Brady in a few areas like mobility and speed. Ponder that. Lol...

Correct, Brady was not the QB he is now by the end of his first season starting. But by then, he led a game winning drive in the Super Bowl that gave Madden goosebumps, he brought us back in the snowbowl and proved through most of the season that he was simply clutch.

Compared to 2 4th quarter TDs in 15 games. But Brissett has more mobility though......

Again, I can't stress enough, I don't hate Brissett, I'm simply going by what I've seen of him on the field, and every trade for a QB, before AND since the report of Seattle offering a 2nd rounder, to say that report is simply not true.

 

[Ring 6]

AJ McCarron traded for a 5th.
Please god let no one argue Brissett is worth more than McCarron or my brain will explode.

 

[Angelpats]

Oh.. you can't handle that... I pointed out that all QBs have that in common, and Brady 2001-2 and Brissett share a few game manager traits. Brissett is actually better than Brady in a few areas like mobility and speed. Ponder that. Lol...

Everyone is better at Brady in mobility and speed. What’s your point? You want him to be our leading back too. You want pocket awareness and good throws from your qb. Having them run around ends their season and careers.

 

[rochrist]

Oh.. you can't handle that... I pointed out that all QBs have that in common, and Brady 2001-2 and Brissett share a few game manager traits. Brissett is actually better than Brady in a few areas like mobility and speed. Ponder that. Lol...

So was Michael Bishop. So?

 

[Simpelton]

AJ McCarron traded for a 5th.
Please god let no one argue Brissett is worth more than McCarron or my brain will explode.

He probably is worth more than McCarron right now, because he's younger, cheaper due to still being on his rookie deal, and has started for a full season, which McCarron has never done.

At the time the Patriots traded him, though, obviously he wasn't, since he hadn't had a full year starting under his belt.

At the moment, I'd definitely take Brissett over the bottom tier of NFL starters, guys like Osweiler and Fitzception (and until last year, Hoyer). That's your comp level for Brissett right now, with the difference that unlike most of these guys, Brissett has upside.

 

[Coolade2]

There's two discussions going on here, and they seem to be getting muddled and causing some crosstalk.

First there's the original discussion, could we have gotten more from Brissett.

The answer is no. Brissett was a project with a little upside when he was a Patriot. Interesting depth option, worth working with, but not a standout talent in any way. Objectively, from a leaguewide standpoint, Brissett was not interesting at all until he got to Indianapolis. Any value he has now in the minds of fans is value he generated since he left.

The second discussion was sparked by the... special individuals in the forum, and you know who you are (I hope!) who have a tendency to go over the top and proclaim that because a guy isn't a franchise superstar, he "sucks." That sparks a response among the more reasonable of us, because for a rookie in his first full season on a bad team, Brissett wasn't terrible. In fact considering what he had to work with, and the fact that he isn't and never will be elite, he wasn't half bad.

The problem is that in their zeal to defend Belichick (which I think was the primary motivation of the "Brisset Sucks" crowd in the argument) they went over the top and offended some fans who have a sense of fairness and liked what they saw from Brissett after he was thrown to the wolves in Indianapolis. That sparked this second discussion which needs to be considered in its own light.

I don't think anyone but the OP and a couple other more naive fans actually think that we could have gotten a second for Brissett... the timeline for any deal like that just doesn't work when he gained most of his value after he left. But Brissett doesn't "suck" either. He's a middling talent with good size, reasonable speed, a powerful arm and good intangibles, but issues with his mechanics and consistency.

He was worth working with when we had him and we traded him for something we needed badly at the time (receiver depth). He went on to have a pretty typical first season as a starting QB with a new team, with things to both love and hate about his game. Where he goes from here comes down to how hard he works and whether he can change certain of his habits. I wish him luck. But in terms of the trade itself, I think we got fair value for what he was when he was traded.

Pretty good summary... I would just add that trades are made in real time, which was last year under those circumstances. It's simply an interesting exercise to evaluate in hindsight. It's not a criticism since nobody can see the future . But when you trade a QB , it just adds to the drama.

AJ McCarron traded for a 5th.
Please god let no one argue Brissett is worth more than McCarron or my brain will explode.

Instead of making your brain explode, I'll just say the raiders got a good deal. McCarron also is coming back from injury which dropped his value along with buffalo desperation to cut down their roster. But congrats for finding a dumb trade for comparison.

 

[Ring 6]

Pretty good summary... I would just add that trades are made in real time, which was last year under those circumstances. It's simply an interesting exercise to evaluate in hindsight. It's not a criticism since nobody can see the future . But when you trade a QB , it just adds to the drama.



Instead of making your brain explode, I'll just say the raiders got a good deal. McCarron also is coming back from injury which dropped his value along with buffalo desperation to cut down their roster. But congrats for finding a dumb trade for comparison.

How is an injury that he might be back from this week dropping the value of a backup qb?
Why is it a dumb comparison? Because it disproves your crazy point of view?

 

[Ring 6]

He probably is worth more than McCarron right now, because he's younger, cheaper due to still being on his rookie deal, and has started for a full season, which McCarron has never done.

At the time the Patriots traded him, though, obviously he wasn't, since he hadn't had a full year starting under his belt.

At the moment, I'd definitely take Brissett over the bottom tier of NFL starters, guys like Osweiler and Fitzception (and until last year, Hoyer). That's your comp level for Brissett right now, with the difference that unlike most of these guys, Brissett has upside.

There is no way he is worth more than McCarron.
Osweiler and Fitzpatrick are not starters.
There is not a team in the nfl that Brissett would be the starter for.

 

[Simpelton]

There is no way he is worth more than McCarron.
Osweiler and Fitzpatrick are not starters.
There is not a team in the nfl that Brissett would be the starter for.

You're simply wrong there. There's too many teams in a state of flux with their quarterback situation to say that with the kind of certainty you're pretending to.

There's usually at least 5-8 teams in the league that are unhappy with their quarterback situation at any given time. With a healthy Luck, the Colts aren't one of them, but you have to think the Broncos, Buccaneers, Ravens, Bears and a couple other teams are living more on hope than on certainty when it comes to their quarterbacks at the moment. That's not even including teams like the Cardinals, Jets, Bills, and Browns that are betting everything on a young quarterback and a backup could see a fair bit of time if things don't go well for those franchises.

If that's not enough for you, consider the Giants. The only reason Eli Manning weaseled his way back into a starting job last year is because the alternative was Geno Smith.By any objective measurement, he was utterly mediocre. Brissett flat out outperformed Manning in a lot of key areas last year. Sure Manning had a terrible roster, but so did Brissett so I'd say that cancels out.

If you were the head coach of the Giants and you had Manning and Brissett to work with, you'd almost HAVE to let Brissett compete for starts, if only to light a fire under Manning

 

[Ring 6]

You're simply wrong there. There's too many teams in a state of flux with their quarterback situation to say that with the kind of certainty you're pretending to.

He just isn’t good enough.

There's usually at least 5-8 teams in the league that are unhappy with their quarterback situation at any given time. With a healthy Luck, the Colts aren't one of them, but you have to think the Broncos,

Just signed keenum

Buccaneers,

He isn’t starting over Winston.

Ravens

There is no chance the ravens would start him over Flacco.

, Bears

They just drafted trubisky #2 overall.

and a couple other teams are living more on hope than on certainty when it comes to their quarterbacks at the moment.

Name them. You’ve named zero so far that he would be the starter on.

That's not even including teams like the Cardinals, Jets, Bills, and Browns that are betting everything on a young quarterback and a backup could see a fair bit of time if things don't go well for those franchises.

He would not be the starter.

If that's not enough for you, consider the Giants. The only reason Eli Manning weaseled his way back into a starting job last year is because the alternative was Geno Smith

Geno Smith has played better in the nfl than Jacoby Brissett. That’s a fact.

.By any objective measurement, he was utterly mediocre. Brissett flat out outperformed Manning in a lot of key areas last year. Sure Manning had a terrible roster, but so did Brissett so I'd say that cancels out.

Ok great now maybe you will answer the question no one has despite me asking it over and over.
Please tell me all of the things Brissett did well last year.

If you were the head coach of the Giants and you had Manning and Brissett to work with, you'd almost HAVE to let Brissett compete for starts, if only to light a fire under Manning

You are arguing against other QBs and just throwing Brissett in as he isn’t them. We could take your entire argument and throw Geno smith in there and it would make mire sense.
You are acting like Brissett looked good. He was awful. He lost 11 of 15 games and while losing them managed to lead his team to 2 total 4th quarter TDs. I can’t think of a worse description of an play than that.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

You're simply wrong there. There's too many teams in a state of flux with their quarterback situation to say that with the kind of certainty you're pretending to.

There's usually at least 5-8 teams in the league that are unhappy with their quarterback situation at any given time. With a healthy Luck, the Colts aren't one of them, but you have to think the Broncos, Buccaneers, Ravens, Bears and a couple other teams are living more on hope than on certainty when it comes to their quarterbacks at the moment. That's not even including teams like the Cardinals, Jets, Bills, and Browns that are betting everything on a young quarterback and a backup could see a fair bit of time if things don't go well for those franchises.

If that's not enough for you, consider the Giants. The only reason Eli Manning weaseled his way back into a starting job last year is because the alternative was Geno Smith.By any objective measurement, he was utterly mediocre. Brissett flat out outperformed Manning in a lot of key areas last year. Sure Manning had a terrible roster, but so did Brissett so I'd say that cancels out.

If you were the head coach of the Giants and you had Manning and Brissett to work with, you'd almost HAVE to let Brissett compete for starts, if only to light a fire under Manning

Nope, he did not flat out perform Eli in many key areas. He outperformed him in 1 area, interceptions. (7 to 13) Let’s start off with the obvious. Eli Manning was below average last season. You could argue borderline terrible. And in every stat minus interceptions manning was equal to or better than Jacoby. Tds, completion%, sacks taken, yards per game, qbr.

I get that we want to like Jacoby since he’s a former pat. We want to see him do well. But even saying he had a decent season last year is false. He made plays here and there but judging the season as a whole he was below average.