Brady 2017 MVP Race Watch

[mgteich]

Doesn't matter what the term means. There's a precendent of who gets it and that largely comes down to

1. Best player on the best team.
2. Player doing something historic statistically on a contender team.

Since Brady's been in the league atleast 7 of the league MVP's broke some kind of NFL record. The one's who didn't were largely on a Super Bowl contender team and leading at their position in most stats.

If most valuable means what you say, then Brady is clearly the best choice.

I guess, we should call this the MVP, rather than the most valuable player.

To me, the player who is the most valuable player to his team is the player that team loses most if he isn't there. Consider if JAG were under long-term contract and the team would be expected to win an equal number of games this year if he started. I would argue that Brady was NOT the most valuable player to the patriots. In fact, the team could lose him and have the same record.

The discussion has taken place for a long time, with folks on both sides. If it was a matter of talent, Brady has deserved it every year. If based on stats, less, but still more than he has received.

So, for me, depending on how the rest of the season plays out, the favorites should be Wentz, Brown, Brady and Wilson.

 

[lancerman]

If most valuable means what you say, then Brady is clearly the best choice.

I guess, we should call this the MVP, rather than the most valuable player.

To me, the player who is the most valuable player to his team is the player that team loses most if he isn't there. Consider if JAG were under long-term contract and the team would be expected to win an equal number of games if he started. I would argue that Brady was the most valuable player to the patriots. In fact, the team could lose him and have the same record.

The discussion has taken place for a long time, with folks on both sides. If it was a matter of talent, Brady has deserved it every year. If based on stats, less, but still more than he has received.

So, for me, depending on how the rest of the season plays out, the favorites should be Wentz, Brown, Brady and Wilson.

Brady should get it this year if everyone stays on their current pace. He'll beat Wentz in everything but TD's and Wentz will only lead him by like one or two.

In the past though, no. MVP's are rare in the NFL. Until the mid 90's nobody got more than two. And at least two or three of Manning's were dumb and shouldn't have happened. So 3's like the max somebody realistically should have gotten imo.

 

[mgteich]

so the argument for Wentz is that his team has a better record. that didn't matter last year though did it? when Brady went 11-1, Ryan went 11-5. brady was robbed

Who has said that Wentz deserved it because of a better record? If that were true, there would be no point voting. The award would simply go to the QB with best record.

If Wentz, or Wilson or Goff get their team to the SB, they will get lots of votes. Without them, these teams suck. Without JAG instead of Brady this year, we still would have likely been a playoff team.

 

[Ring 6]

So, you're not interested to discuss who the MVP should be, based on what the term MVP means. Fair enough.

Not sure where you get that from out of my post questioning a statement that the voters love the “new guy” when I see zero cases to back that up.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

So, you're not interested to discuss who the MVP should be, based on what the term MVP means. Fair enough.

But the award isn't based on your understanding of the "valuable" section. "MVP" is used colloquially to mean the best player, or the most outstanding player, of the season. That's Brady, by a mile.

 

[mgteich]

But the award isn't based on your understanding of the "valuable" section. "MVP" is used colloquially to mean the best player, or the most outstanding player, of the season. That's Brady, by a mile.

No, it has been used colloquially to mean the QB among the very best teams who had the best season.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

No, it has been used colloquially to mean the QB among the very best teams who had the best season.

So you admit that it's not even what you were arguing it should be?

 

[mgteich]

So you admit that it's not even what you were arguing it should be?

The colloquial use by posters shouldn't be what determines the winner of an award. There was a RB who won in the last 10 years, and several in the last 30. Before that, other positions were sometimes given the award.

Besides, I have posted (pusted few threads ago) that Wilson and Goff will get lots of votes if their teams are in the SB. They (and Wentz) are so valuable that their teams would suck without them, and would very very unlikely to be in the playoffs.

 

[sb1]

Who has said that Wentz deserved it because of a better record? If that were true, there would be no point voting. The award would simply go to the QB with best record.

If Wentz, or Wilson or Goff get their team to the SB, they will get lots of votes. Without them, these teams suck. Without JAG instead of Brady this year, we still would have likely been a playoff team.

Pats wouldn’t suck but they are a .500 team at best with JG instead of Brady IMO. I didn’t see much out of JG’s 6 quarters last year to make me think he could take this team to the playoffs.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

The last player to win mvp and win the superbowl was Kurt warner back in 1999. It has been a hexed ever since then. 0-6 in the superbowl the last 6 players to be MVP and reach the superbowl

 

[ALP]

i think people are right, brady will get it because he arguably deserves it straight up, but the novelty factor of being 40 years old will clinch it...makes all these old writers/voters feel young again

 

[Ring 6]

If most valuable means what you say, then Brady is clearly the best choice.

I guess, we should call this the MVP, rather than the most valuable player.

To me, the player who is the most valuable player to his team is the player that team loses most if he isn't there. Consider if JAG were under long-term contract and the team would be expected to win an equal number of games this year if he started. I would argue that Brady was NOT the most valuable player to the patriots. In fact, the team could lose him and have the same record.

The discussion has taken place for a long time, with folks on both sides. If it was a matter of talent, Brady has deserved it every year. If based on stats, less, but still more than he has received.

So, for me, depending on how the rest of the season plays out, the favorites should be Wentz, Brown, Brady and Wilson.

There has never been a case where the player who was most valuable on the field didn’t win the award because people thought he had a good back up.
That is the dumbest argument anyone could ever make.
You don’t give an award by guessing how good someone’s back up might be.

 

[Brewskies]

As of now Philly's Wentz win as far as I am concerned. Look at his stats to date. Still have 5 games to go.

Go Pas and Brady

 

[Ring 6]

The colloquial use by posters shouldn't be what determines the winner of an award. There was a RB who won in the last 10 years, and several in the last 30. Before that, other positions were sometimes given the award.

Besides, I have posted (pusted few threads ago) that Wilson and Goff will get lots of votes if their teams are in the SB. They (and Wentz) are so valuable that their teams would suck without them, and would very very unlikely to be in the playoffs.

Since Brady had outplayed all of them it would make sense to conclude the patriots wouldn’t be in the playoffs without Brady either.

 

[Ring 6]

As of now Philly's Wentz win as far as I am concerned. Look at his stats to date. Still have 5 games to go.

Go Pas and Brady

Brady’s stats are FAR superior to Wentz.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

As of now Philly's Wentz win as far as I am concerned. Look at his stats to date. Still have 5 games to go.

Go Pas and Brady

expect for the fact that Brady's stats destroy Wentz

 

[VectorPrime]

It isn't so much a crime that Brady only has 2, its that Manning has 5. Brady being around 2-3 is about right. Manning on the other hand didn't deserve at least 2 of his flat out.

 

[Gronk]

The colloquial use by posters shouldn't be what determines the winner of an award. There was a RB who won in the last 10 years, and several in the last 30. Before that, other positions were sometimes given the award.

Besides, I have posted (pusted few threads ago) that Wilson and Goff will get lots of votes if their teams are in the SB. They (and Wentz) are so valuable that their teams would suck without them, and would very very unlikely to be in the playoffs.

Think they vote after the season but before playoffs, so whether team makes SB should be irrelevant. Rodgers won in ‘11 after they got upset by Giants in home playoff game.

If Eagles go 15-1 and Wentz plays more or less like he has, he’ll win. There’s still very few teams to get to that record - 84 Niners, 85 Bears, 98 Vikes, 04 Steelers, 11 Pack, 15 Panthers - and he’s the driver of that. QBs for those teams didn’t always win, but when they were clearly the best player on their teams they did (Montana 84 aside because Marino set all the records that year). If they drop a game or 2 then Brady will be in play. He should be anyway, obviously, record isn’t the only thing but it is a remarkable record that does make the numbers look sexier.

I think you could make arguments for multiple years that Brady “should’ve” won - none more obvious than last year though. Absolutely robbed. That being said I do think he won the 2 that are most undeniable, but I I wouldn’t have felt weird about him winning in say ‘12, or ‘14 either.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

What years would you have given it to Brady that he didn't get it?

2016: Ryan led the league in virtually every stat from percentage, yards, Y/A, TD's, yards per game, and passer rating. While leading a top 10 all time offense in terms of production.

2015: Cam's team was going for undefeated until the last couple weeks of the season, his team was clearly the most dominant looking in football and he was clearly the best player on it, he was having an insane year from a passing/running perspective.

2014: Aaron Rodgers team had the same record as us (which also was a four way tie for best record) , his team beat us head to head, and he led Brady in virtually every passing stat.

2013: Peyton Manning had one of the all time great QB seasons and broke the TD and passing yards single season record.

Up to this point every MVP was either in the Super Bowl or MVP.

2012: Peterson was 9 yards shy of breaking the all time rushing record which was historic and one of the best RB seasons of all time.

2011: Rodgers team was 15-1 and clearly the best team in the regular season and Rodgers broke the record for single season passer rating

2010: Brady won largely for leading the best team in the league that year and his most consecutive passes without an interception as well as leading the league in rating and TD's

2009: I don't think Manning deserved this, but it was either going to Manning or Brees. So I don't think Brady should have won this one.

2008: N/A because Brady was out for the season.

2007: Brady won for having the greatest QB season of all time.

2006: LT won for breaking the rushing TD's record and leading the league in yards while being on what was considered the best team that year.

2005: This was a pretty unremarkable year. Shaun Alexander won it. Split vote. He was on pace for alot of records he didn;t get. I don't think Brady had much of a chance to get it this year.

2004: Manning had the best statistical QB season since Dan Marino's 1984 season and he broke the TD record.

2003: Split between Manning and McNair. Both were good. Brady could have got it this year but it wasn't egregious or anything.

2002: Gannon had a break out season and his team was great, our team didn't make the playoffs which is usually a minimum requisite for the award in recent years.

2001: Hard to argue against Kurt Warner this year. I love Brady, but he clearly wasn't getting it this year.

I don't really have much of an issue with it.
Peyton Manning has 5 (2 of which I personally am not a fan of him getting, but I don't think Brady was in the running either of those years)
Brett Favre has 3.

Then there are a bunch of people tied at 2. So even with "only 2" he's tied for third all time. If he got it this year, he'd be tied for second best. It's just a bit of a lightning in the bottle award.

Good post and your research on yrs are well taken but with that said Brady's missing yrs as a Reg Season MVP are not just fact stats but what he was able to accomplish with what he had or lack there of. I'm not going to delve into random MVP seasons looking them up. In season TB didn't get it when he had an argument to win it was when his OL was putrid, his Defs were avg or below avg and he literally had to carry Pats to winning seasons and his Offense constantly changing via season ending injuries or player changes and with new game plans he's always taken for granted that 12-14 wins is a lock. So there are cases when Brady could've won more MVPs than 'ONLY 2' there are intangibles in which I mentioned than just stats and that is what separates him from other QBs to execute at a high level with any players he has and his ability to elevate their games and manage to not put them in harm's way from getting hurt and WIN!

Anyway, all that matters is TB collecting SB MVPs, thats what counts!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

NFL Specials Betting Odds | American Football

Regular Season Outrights
Regular Season Regular Season MVP

Tom Brady
-162

Carson Wentz
150

Drew Brees
1600

Russell Wilson
1600

Cam Newton
3300