Is this season proof that Brady needs Belichick?

[crawhammer]

This notion is cropping up on the main forum. In part because I made a joke about Tom > Bill which prompted some rebuttal (and my dismissal from the thread without even saying another word). But to answer my own question here, the answer is NO.

The idea that Brady is having a bad season is overrated. Statistically his numbers are decent... he leads the NFL in attempts and completions yet he has the fewest INTs (1) and the lowest INT% (0.3%). He's 2nd in yards and 3rd in first down completions (Mahomes and Burrow are 1 & 2). He's 2nd in completed air yards (total yards completed passes traveled in the air past the line of scrimmage before being caught).

All that despite the Bucs having the worst running game in the NFL by far. 32nd (last) in yards, 32nd in yards per attempt, and 30th in TDs. Fournette is 10th in attempts but 25th in yards, 49th in yards per attempt, and 29th in rushing yards after contact per rush.

The Bucs offense has been unusually bad in the red zone this season. Currently ranking 29th (tied with the Patriots!) in team red zone scoring percentage (TDs only). Passing game, running game, pass and run blocking, play-calling... all bad in the red zone. Really this is the key to turning their season around offensively as a team. This must improve, including Brady's play. The passing game has been good between the 20's. The running game has been putrid in all situations but hopefully at least they can get tougher in the low red zone.

Is Bowles a complete loser as a head coach? Yes. But supposedly so was Arians. All I heard for two seasons was how much of a clown Arians is and how he was only getting in the way until Brady dispatched him before this season. Now people (including me lol) bemoan his absence because the team looks lifeless (like the current HC) and is currently second in the division behind freaking Atlanta.

Although I think Arians could infuse some enthusiasm in the locker room, and get players to hold themselves more accountable, I'm not sure he can impact the on-field product. Players need to execute better. The defense needs to at least maximize their effort, which truthfully is lacking in some of their supposed bigtime players. Leftwich needs to do some serious self-evaluating, and film study, and figure out where he needs to make significant changes in his play-calling.

Regarding Belichick, while the IBWT crowd wants to scoff at Brady's season, the Patriots are probably a quarterback away from being relevant. Their primary weakness has been quarterback play. The supposed guy – Mac Jones – is now fitting in nicely with the other disappointments taken in the 1st round of the 2021 draft. Right now, they all suck (except for the unavailable Trey Lance), some worse (Zach Wilson) than others (Justin Fields might be a poor man's Lamar Jackson).

Mac Jones is currently 33rd in TD% and 35th in INT% (dead last among qualifiers). He hasn't been any good since the 3-pass attempt game vs Buffalo in week 15 of last season... there are all kinds of ugly numbers to back this up. He's probably a roughing the passer call away from losing his starting job to Bailey Zappe... who may or may not be the better option but I guess we're going to bury him because of one bad half when really the entire team fell apart against a bad opponent.

So, in summary since Brady and Belichick split:

Brady

27-14 regular season
5-1 postseason
Division title
Super Bowl title
Super Bowl MVP
105 passing TDs

Belichick

21-20 regular season
0-1 postseason
3rd, 2nd & 4th in the division (after 16 straight 1st place finishes with Brady)
46 passing TDs (all QBs combined)

If we're answering the question honestly then it seems obvious who needs who more. I mean Brady won a SUPER BOWL. Brady has nothing left to prove regardless of how this season, or his career, ends. And the current season has a long way to go yet. By its end it's a good bet that Brady has a better record, better standing in his division, and a better chance in postseason. While Belichick is probably looking at a lot of uncertainty at the quarterback position for the remainder of this season and possibly for the remainder of his career.

 

[XLIX]

The simple, undeniable facts are these:

Does Brady need Belichick? Well, Brady won a Super Bowl without Belichick. That right there is proof that Brady doesn't need Belichick to win a Super Bowl. QED. Brady could go 0-17 every year until 2050 and that does not change the fact that he has proven he can win a Super Bowl without Bill Belichick.

Does Belichick (as an HC) need Brady? Let us just say he has had no success without Brady. That doesn't mean he can't or that he won't, just that as of right now, Belichick has not proven he can win without Brady in the almost-10-years he has been an HC without Brady starting.

As for this season.... Brady is playing well. The Bucs are #5 in the League in passing yards per game (Brady is actually #2 overall, but some of the QBs behind him have taken their byes). They need to start turning those yards into points. It is really that simple.

They need to turn some of those 3's into 7's, and some of those turnover-on-downs into 3's. There is still a lot of football to be played and TB benefits from being in possibly the weakest division in the League. 8-9 might very well win the darn thing.

IF the Bucs make the playoffs, I would consider them very dangerous no matter what their record is. Suppose the Eagles take the top seed.... I don't care what the records are, I guarantee you they would rather face Minnesota or Seattle instead of a Tom Brady led Tampa Bay.

 

[carmelo15]

No

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No, but Brady either needs Belichick or an all star set of players around him to succeed

To be successful, Belichick just needs a good dinker-and-dunker at QB to fit into his system...Brady was very good at that.

This season is proof that Brady can't succeed long term without good coaching...the one year fluke in 2020 notwithstanding.

 

[sb1]

Brady won a ring and is still elite 2+ seasons after his departure. No he doesn’t need Bill.

It’s not rocket science to figure out that Bill or any coach in football will win less switching from the greatest of all time to someone inferior at the QB position. Bill’s struggles without Brady prove there is no magic “system” and never was.

 

[aluminum seats]

He hasn't been any good since the 3-pass attempt game vs Buffalo

I concede this is sort of an annoying hot take but I do wonder if that game didn’t mess with his head a little bit. I know he was mocked by some for not being trusted to throw the ball, regardless of the weather

 

[sb1]

I concede this is sort of an annoying hot take but I do wonder if that game didn’t mess with his head a little bit. I know he was mocked by some for not being trusted to throw the ball, regardless of the weather

That ended his ROTY case imo. Especially since they still won.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady won a ring and is still elite 2+ seasons after his departure. No he doesn’t need Bill.

Brady was elite in 2020 and 2021, but not anymore. he is worse than 2019 Brady. the Bucs are near the bottom of the league in touchdown drives, which tells you everything

 

[Guts]

No, but you do need adequate coaching no matter how great a player you may be.

What he learned in NE he implemented it to some degree in Tampa. That speaks on the culture/accountablity that BB has for his teams. This season the team just stinks and it doesn't help Tom isn't playing well in recent weeks.

 

[VectorPrime]

Brady won a super bowl man

 

[TheRainMaker]

Does Brady need BB? Not necessarily, but he needs good coaching. Troy Aikman had said this after Jimmy Johnson left even though they won a Super Bowl without him. He did not like Barry Switzer. Brett Favre is another good example as he wasn't the same after Holmgren left. The gun slinger mentality got worse and his supporting cast wasn't good enough to cover it up.

A QB also needs a good supporting cast that isn't injury prone and plays when they feel like it. But with that said, he's 45 years old and looks checked out mentally.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady won a super bowl man

So did Nick Foles and a whole host of other crap QBs

 

[crawhammer]

So did Nick Foles and a whole host of other crap QBs

Ugh. Nick Foles is your example again? He made Belichick look like a complete fool. Congratulations.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Brady was elite in 2020 and 2021, but not anymore. he is worse than 2019 Brady. the Bucs are near the bottom of the league in touchdown drives, which tells you everything

The man is 45 years old. Anyway you dismiss all his touchdowns and yards anyway no matter how many he had. You etched your opinion on Brady and his accomplishments many years ago and there is nothing he could have done to alter it. Dont waste our time

 

[crawhammer]

No, but Brady either needs Belichick or an all star set of players around him to succeed

To be successful, Belichick just needs a good dinker-and-dunker at QB to fit into his system...Brady was very good at that.

This season is proof that Brady can't succeed long term without good coaching...the one year fluke in 2020 notwithstanding.

You should have stopped at no.

Your argument is Belichick can't find another adequate "dinker and dunker" to fit his system? In 9.5 seasons no luck? Because he's below .500 and hasn't won a division with every other quarterback besides Brady. He must really suck at picking quarterbacks then... can't even find an average one to excel in "his system."

Now 2020 was a fluke? The entire 20-game season? Let's see, won a Super Bowl in 2020, had an MVP-caliber season in 2021, and probably going to prevail in his division in 2022... yet there's "proof" he can't succeed? That's comical.

 

[crawhammer]

A QB also needs a good supporting cast that isn't injury prone and plays when they feel like it. But with that said, he's 45 years old and looks checked out mentally.

There have been some noticeable lapses in effort on the defensive side of the ball. I haven't noticed the same on offense. They're just executing poorly in key situations offensively (and the play-calling hasn't helped at times). Brady has looked distracted at times, which I suppose is understandable with the off field drama in his life. His effort still seems to be there though and he's not having any issues throwing the football, everything looks good there... mechanics, velocity, accuracy, etc. Injuries (and suspension) to the receiving corps have really killed any opportunity for continuity there. Godwin hasn't been as versatile as he was pre-ACL but he may still be getting there and Julio Jones probably could be a difference maker if he can stay in the WR rotation (however we know this is unlikely). Significant downgrade at TE this season too (although Otton has looked decent for a rookie).

Overall I think Bowles really has the team uninspired and this is where Arians may be missed. Bowles is actually telling the team (and the media) that the team is "in a dark place" and that they're "still in a dark place" after the loss to Baltimore. Is this really the message you want to drill into the mentality of your team?

 

[Steve102]

Brady needs someone to check him exactly the same as Bill does. Who's going to stand up to Bill in the coaches meeting? Who is going to stand up to Tom and check him? Arians may have done that a little year 1, and he's out.

None of you guys want to hear it, but they needed each other to be as great as they could be. Alone very good, together they are great. Lennon and McCartney are fine alone, but together they are magical. Same with Bill and Tom.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You should have stopped at no.

Your argument is Belichick can't find another adequate "dinker and dunker" to fit his system? In 9.5 seasons no luck? Because he's below .500 and hasn't won a division with every other quarterback besides Brady. He must really suck at picking quarterbacks then... can't even find an average one to excel in "his system."

Now 2020 was a fluke? The entire 20-game season? Let's see, won a Super Bowl in 2020, had an MVP-caliber season in 2021, and probably going to prevail in his division in 2022... yet there's "proof" he can't succeed? That's comical.

I didn't say he can't succeed. I said he can't succeed either without Bill or a strong team around him. Over the past two years, Evans, Gronk, Brown, Goodwin, Marpet, Jensen, and Fournette carried him. And this year without Marpet, Jensen, Gronk, Brown, the Bucs offense (and Brady) has basically collapsed. Brady is near the bottom of the league in leading his team in touchdown drives. If those players didn't carry Brady, Brady would be playing well now since he is missing Gronk, Brown, Jensen, and Marpet. Not rocket science.

 

[Nehalem]

Given that he won a SB in 2020, and probably would have repeated in 2021 if Todd Bowles knew how to call a defense...

I think 2022 is proof that Todd Bowles sucks. Like really really sucks.

 

[XLIX]

None of you guys want to hear it, but they needed each other to be as great as they could be. Alone very good, together they are great. Lennon and McCartney are fine alone, but together they are magical. Same with Bill and Tom.

Except it is not the same. Lennon had #1 hits without McCartney. McCartney had #1 hits without Lennon.

Brady has won a Super Bowl without Belichick. Belichick has....... well, I guess once upon a time, during the Clinton administration (first term), he won a Wild Card game.....

"On Bended Knee" by Boyz II Men was the #1 song
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