Is this season proof that Brady needs Belichick?

[XLIX]

Just curious but were you a Pats fan yet in 2001-2004? Those teams were loaded with star players. You cannot win Super Bowls and be going through a rebuild at the same time.

Before Brady took over as a starter, that "loaded team" was 5-13 under Belichick.

So perhaps the better question is were you a Pats fan yet in 2000-2001?

 

[TBR]

It shows that Tampa Bay failed with the “keep the band together” philosophy. Now you’re seeing the problems with paying top dollar for their own FAs (Barrett, Davis, Fournette) when these guys didn’t warrant that. Also that second round pick spent on Trask was incredibly stupid. Finally, they didn’t spend draft picks to acquire sure fire contributors knowing their window was very slim.

Fournette wasn't re-signed for much. He was very good last year on the 1 year contract he took. Lavonte David is definitely worth it. Barrett is a bit overpriced but he's not a terrible signing. Nothing about their "keep the band together" philosophy failed. It took AB doing some wildly unprecedented nonsense, Godwin tearing his ACL, and losing Wirfs (All-Pro, top 3 tackle in the league) to lose to the Rams. Otherwise they would've had a very good chance to win the SB last year. They probably would have, if only Wirfs was healthy. That was the nail in the coffin... they could've overcame the rest.

Their issue impacting them this year (aside from horrific coaching) was wasting money on highly injury prone vets like Julio Jones and Akiem Hicks. Their other FA signing, Russell Gage, was a bad overpay (3 years, 30M) too. He's been banged up with injuries and not very impactful at all.

 

[1960Pats]

It’s almost as if Brady is only responsible for one position on the roster and BB is responsible for the entire team so maybe, just maybe, a rebuild of an entire team takes a bit longer?

It's simple. If you have the right players, especially at QB, it won't take as long. In Dynasty I Bill got a SB ring in his 2nd year here. He also added a few key players as FAs, including the player whose name you carry.

 

[1960Pats]

Next stop is Don Shula for BB.

Remember, we have a lot of cap space next year. Our last two drafts have been great, let's not make this team out to be a lucky if we win 3 games. Help is coming and maybe we get into the playoffs again this year. We'll see.

You're much too young to remember, but Don Shula and the Dolphins were fined a record amount and lost a 1st round pick in 1970. That violation led directly to their undefeated season in 1972. That's why when Shula started talking asterisks in 2007 his ex-players got him to pipe down quickly. Ironic huh?

Even if the Pats lose it doesn't wipe that smirk off my face when I think of the 2 decades of dominance. The only thing that would make it better would be if it was done with Pat Patriot instead of Flying Elvis.

If they get decent QB play the Pats can be in contention soon. But it won't be easy with the Bills in the AFCE. They really are loaded. And Allen is a threat as long as he stays healthy. And now they're chasing after Kamara? Holy cow!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Bill

It shows that Tampa Bay failed with the “keep the band together” philosophy.

You kind of saw that coming from their past history. Ownership will ride the hot hand of a good but not the brightest head coaches (Gruden and Bruce) when it comes almost anything away from the sidelines. Gruden was a terrible evaluator and BA never met someone he immediately didn't want to argue with.

Now you’re seeing the problems with paying top dollar for their own FAs (Barrett, Davis, Fournette) when these guys didn’t warrant that.

This is key imo. Bill was always good with staying ahead of the curve with this stuff. No feelings or blind spots. Brady didnt take less to help the team. He was afraid of Bill using it against him.

Also that second round pick spent on Trask was incredibly stupid.

I know some dont like this game but I didnt like the JTS pick in the 1st. I had a 3rd on him and Trask. (Browning, Barmore, Asante, Holland, Javonte Williams, A St Brown, Michael Carter and a few others had solid 2nd round value)

Finally, they didn’t spend draft picks to acquire sure fire contributors knowing their window was very slim.

Picks are very much underutilized here.

I think it was 31% of players drafted by their original team to get second contracts. So forget about hitting on a pick. Even if you do the odds aren't looking great you'll see those guys on the reup.

Again I think the league is way behind in this space and you might be able to take advantage of certain teams when it comes to the exchange of picks for players.

Especially of you're in "win now" or "all in" mode with a QB locked up. Like what's going to give Buffalo the most bang for their buck next year, a rookie or established vet?

Definitely feel like there's a lot of untapped potential in this area.

 

[Triumph]

YES

Would BB have had Cooper Kupp tripled team last post season? Yes

Would BB have decent back ups for the Tampa injuries this season? Yes

 

[1960Pats]

YES

Would BB have had Cooper Kupp tripled team last post season? Yes

Would BB have decent back ups for the Tampa injuries this season? Yes

Coaches don't win games, players do. Coaches can only lose them.
Is the 2021 NFCC game Exhibit A. Yes.

How did Brady's backup do with the Pats? Oh yeah, they didn't have one.

 

[sb1]

YES

Would BB have had Cooper Kupp tripled team last post season? Yes

Would BB have decent back ups for the Tampa injuries this season? Yes

That sounds more like an argument the Bucs team would be better off with BB. Brady doesn’t need BB and he proved it with a championship. BB still hasn’t found an adequate long term replacement yet.

 

[Triumph]

That sounds more like an argument the Bucs team would be better off with BB. Brady doesn’t need BB and he proved it with a championship. BB still hasn’t found an adequate long term replacement yet.

I was referring to a HC in control of his team. Every detail. Arians ran a very loose ship. Brady won a ring, but he was lucky that KC lost both OTs and Reids loser son caused a huge distraction 2 weeks before the Super Bowl.

The man responsible for not letting Cooper Kupp run wild is now the HC of Bradys team. Look whats happening.

 

[Triumph]

Coaches don't win games, players do. Coaches can only lose them.
Is the 2021 NFCC game Exhibit A. Yes.

How did Brady's backup do with the Pats? Oh yeah, they didn't have one.

False.

Mahomes does not win without Reid
Stafford finally won with McVay
Walsh and Montana
Johnson and Aikman

It took Brady and Belichick to win 6 Super Bowls. BB brought Welker and Edelman to NE. BB saw something in Gronk that others missed. So many crucial games were won due to BBs decisions. The Ravens game where BB found a loophole in eligible players confusing Harbaugh. Turning point in that game.

No way is Brady winning another with Tampa.

 

[1960Pats]

False.

Mahomes does not win without Reid
Stafford finally won with McVay
Walsh and Montana
Johnson and Aikman

It took Brady and Belichick to win 6 Super Bowls. BB brought Welker and Edelman to NE. BB saw something in Gronk that others missed. So many crucial games were won due to BBs decisions. The Ravens game where BB found a loophole in eligible players confusing Harbaugh. Turning point in that game.

No way is Brady winning another with Tampa.

Brady doesn't have to win another and neither does Belichick. The problem for you and Bill's other rumpswabs is that Brady won right after he left, with a HC and coaches that everyone here called clowns. That goes against the idea that coaches are as important as players.

How does Reid do without Mahomes? Or Walsh without Montana? My guess is they'd probably be doing the same as Bill without Brady.

 

[Kontradiction]

Nah. Brady has won more Super Bowls than Belichick has won playoff games in the last 3 years. They benefitted from one another (the GOAT QB meeting with the GOAT defensive mind every week, for example), but Bill needs a Brady more than Brady needs Bill.

What Brady needs right now is a competent TE, more than anything.

 

[Triumph]

Brady doesn't have to win another and neither does Belichick. The problem for you and Bill's other rumpswabs is that Brady won right after he left, with a HC and coaches that everyone here called clowns. That goes against the idea that coaches are as important as players.

How does Reid do without Mahomes? Or Walsh without Montana? My guess is they'd probably be doing the same as Bill without Brady.

False

I never called the Bucs clowns. I called you an axxclown. Brady won with an NFL model devised by BB that nobody else used. The Spread offense was not en vogue until the Pat's under BBs leadership starting winning titles. Then go take into consideration that in 22 NFL seasons the Patriots have rarely been in salary cap trouble. Anyone with a clue knows that Walshs West Coast offense was revolutionary and changed the NFL. John Elway was a loser until he was paired with the perfect HC. Brett Farve warmed the bench in Atlanta until he landed with the right HC who also ran the West Coast offense.

NFL HCs win games. In some instances the game is won before the players take the field. Some NFL HCs are just smarter and some are dumbfuks.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

What Brady has done in Tampa is no different than what Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Peyton, and Russell Wilson did with their teams (in the case of Peyton his second team)...one super bowl and done. Let's not act as if Brady did something unique with the Bucs. In fact, Peyton's tenure in Denver was arguably better considering he took his team to two super bowls and got a regular season MVP to go along with his super bowl win.

Brady going to Tampa and bringing along Fournette, Brown, and Gronk with him is the equivalent of BB going to Dallas or KC and taking McDaniels to be his OC...would anyone be surprised if Bill won a super bowl with the Cowboys or Chiefs? Didn't think so

 

[Pape]

If we're answering the question honestly ...

We would say they are working on two different levels...

One runs an organization, drafts players, signs free agents, releases players, hires coaches, fires coaches, replaces coaches, creates the ethos of the team, makes all the important decisions off the fields, then helps craft offensive and defensive game plans, helps with adjustments during the game...

The other plays football... Has a hand in creating the game plan, help with insight as to what is working, what isn't on a particular day so effective adjustments can be made...

So if you were being honest, your answer should be comparing what both do isn't a real comparison at all because they have completely different jobs.

Instead people have let the felgers of the world feed them a heapful of horse **** and bought into the is it him or him argument.

 

[XLIX]

All the make believe and excuse making in the world the haters engage in does nothing to change the following facts:

1) Brady won a Super Bowl his first year away from Belichick
2) In almost 10 years as an HC without Brady, Belichick has won all of 1 playoff game

"Anything short of a Super Bowl championship and Brady is a failure in Tampa!" - haters, 2020
"Anything short of 2 Super Bowl championships and Brady is a failure in Tampa!" - haters, 2022

 

[crawhammer]

We would say they are working on two different levels...

One runs an organization, drafts players, signs free agents, releases players, hires coaches, fires coaches, replaces coaches, creates the ethos of the team, makes all the important decisions off the fields, then helps craft offensive and defensive game plans, helps with adjustments during the game...

The other plays football... Has a hand in creating the game plan, help with insight as to what is working, what isn't on a particular day so effective adjustments can be made...

So if you were being honest, your answer should be comparing what both do isn't a real comparison at all because they have completely different jobs.

One has won without the other and one hasn't. That's the bottom line evaluation. Brady's original impact on the Patriots franchise was immediate and sustained on an unprecedented level. His departure from the franchise also had an immediate impact... they haven't won the division after having won 16 in a row with Brady. His impact on the Bucs franchise was also immediate. Brady has already proven he can win without Belichick and that's not a reversible conclusion.

 

[Pape]

One has won without the other and one hasn't. That's the bottom line evaluation.

That's the bottom line?

And all the different things they do means naught?

You need to redefine two things - what bottom line means and what honest means.

A honest bottom line comparison would be Brady to Bledsoe. Same position, different results. Compare Belichick to Shula. Same position, different results.

Trying to make a comparison between Brady and Belichick is nonsense. It's anything but honest.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

One has won without the other and one hasn't. That's the bottom line evaluation. Brady's original impact on the Patriots franchise was immediate and sustained on an unprecedented level. His departure from the franchise also had an immediate impact... they haven't won the division after having won 16 in a row with Brady. His impact on the Bucs franchise was also immediate.

yup, Brown, Gronk, Fournette, Godwin, Marpet, Wirfs, Jensen, White, Davis, Vea, Suh, JPP, Winfield, and Davis had nothing to do with Brady winning in 2020…it's the best collection of talent Brady's ever had.

Brady has already proven he can win without Belichick and that's not a reversible conclusion.

then why didn’t even win last year? why doesn’t he have his current team playing well? oh, the guys around him who carried him for the past two years aren’t playing great…got it

vast majority of Brady’s touchdowns and yards as Buc came against crappy teams with a average winning percentage of below .400. I will keep reminding you of this

 

[XLIX]

One has won without the other and one hasn't. That's the bottom line evaluation. Brady's original impact on the Patriots franchise was immediate and sustained on an unprecedented level. His departure from the franchise also had an immediate impact... they haven't won the division after having won 16 in a row with Brady. His impact on the Bucs franchise was also immediate. Brady has already proven he can win without Belichick and that's not a reversible conclusion.

Amen. There is no single one person you can point to and say "Brady can't win without...." whether you're talking teammates, coaches or girlfriends/wives