What do we want to see at Training Camp

[patsfanfromoversea]

I just provided the stats above...

The Patriot's D ranked 1st in the entire NFL in fewest rushing TD's allowed, they ranked 5th in 3rd down percentage, 2nd in redzone percentage... they were good on short downs. The problem wasn't the big men in the middle... that's why they fired their entire LB corps.

22 in rushing yards allowed isn't that great i think we can agree on that. Only 9 rushing TD allowed is great but if teams can run on you it still sucks and kills time at least. And against good rushing teams (browns, titans) their backups killed us

 

[Wozzy]

22 in rushing yards allowed isn't that great i think we can agree on that. Only 9 rushing TD allowed is great but if teams can run on you it still sucks and kills time at least. And against good rushing teams (browns, titans) their backups killed us

Read what I wrote, they were very good on short downs (3rd and short, goal line)... that's when Carl Davis the the DT's really show up.

Goal to goal where they gave up a lot of rushing yards, especially after the bye week, especially rushing off the edges... this why they fired the entire LB room and went with the youth movement, this is why they stressed the need for speed, why they brought back the same exact DT room... they know what the problem was. Now let's see if they can fix it.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You are violating the rules by using facts to support your position.

The problem on Defense in 2021 was two-fold: injuries late in the season (especially to Jones) and the diminished production from the veteran linebackers.

Belichick has certainly recognized the issue at LB, even if not enough for some posters. Other than Judon and Bentley, almost all the reps will be from those who were not major factors in the past. Belichick has spent considerable draft resources to draft 4 LB's in early rounds recently (in addition to Bentley). He has also acquired McMillan and Wilson.

Other areas may be very important to the success of the team. But the primary factor will be the play of the linebackers, especially since there is no longer a top secondary to bail them out. [I'm not complaining about the secondary. Belichick has done fine trying to make up for the loss of Jackson].

Finally, I don't see the major issue being defense against the run (and the ILB's). Bentley, McMillan and Wilson should be OK, with the probable addition of reps of one of the other LB's.

The question for the season will be the EDGE, the OL's and pass-rush. Judon plus who. Flowers would go a long way in solidifying this group. [And yes, I do expect something from Uche, as I used to expect something from Winovich; but we need more].

Our IDL got worked against physical teams. Teams that can run/ run zone. Especially against double teams/ combos. I wrote about it a few times in my thread but our IDL absolutely was a problem last year. Saying the problem on defense was just "this or that" doesn't really do it justice.

Also the thing with LB was they couldn't exactly take many more steps backwards when you look at HT, Collins, KVN. That was an aging group hanging on by a thread. So changes weren't exactly shocking if you think about it.

I agree about "RUSH" (it's 2023, edge is so 2010-ish man) though. I'd love to see Flowers or Houston here. Flowers is only 29. He's got a few years left of good play. We're lacking there against the run. Judon was hit or miss, bad towards the end. Wise isn't full-time. Curious what we have in mind for Uche, Jennings & Perkins. It would be nice to see us commit to Uche's strength and live with faults more. Hopefully Jennings is healthy ready to go and we can develop and use Perk. I love his attitude and demeanor but as I've said from draft day we would be overcoming a few things with him. We'll see there.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Then the complaints would be about how badly out WRs and OL suck.

Probably.

I think our WRs are pretty decent and Mac is a top 15 QB. If the CBs are sticking to the WRs that means they will fair well vs WR2s and WR3s.

Matching up vs WR1s like Kupp, Adams, Hill and Diggs is a different discussion which will require double teams.

 

[Salsalife]

Somehow it's a liability that he has two coaches he's worked with before that were good enough coordinators to land head coaching jobs?

I keep hearing idiots in the media calling Patricia and Judge "failed coordinators" when they they were both excellent as coordinators even though they failed as head coaches.

This staff is *very* experienced.

Somehow it's a liability that he has two coaches he's worked with before that were good enough coordinators to land head coaching jobs?

I keep hearing idiots in the media calling Patricia and Judge "failed coordinators" when they they were both excellent as coordinators even though they failed as head coaches.

This staff is *very* experienced.

Yeah no worries, we have the experience...
He began his NFL career in 2001 with the New England Patriots, where he served as the offensive coordinator for 14 non-consecutive seasons. During McDaniels' first stint as offensive coordinator from 2006 to 2008, New England set the record for points scored and became the first team to win all 16 regular season games in 2007. In his second stint from 2012 to 2021, the Patriots won three Super Bowl titles in Super Bowl XLIX, Super Bowl LI, and Super Bowl LIII. McDaniels was also among the Patriots personnel to be present for all six of their titles during the Brady–Belichick era.

 

[rochrist]

Yeah no worries, we have the experience...
He began his NFL career in 2001 with the New England Patriots, where he served as the offensive coordinator for 14 non-consecutive seasons. During McDaniels' first stint as offensive coordinator from 2006 to 2008, New England set the record for points scored and became the first team to win all 16 regular season games in 2007. In his second stint from 2012 to 2021, the Patriots won three Super Bowl titles in Super Bowl XLIX, Super Bowl LI, and Super Bowl LIII. McDaniels was also among the Patriots personnel to be present for all six of their titles during the Brady–Belichick era.

What was his role in 2001? Coffee boy? Swear to God, while he was here posters couldn’t wait to get rid of him, now he’s gone he’s equally responsible for the SB wins as TB and more than Bill.

 

[Salsalife]

What was his role in 2001? Coffee boy? Swear to God, while he was here posters couldn’t wait to get rid of him, now he’s gone he’s equally responsible for the SB wins as TB and more than Bill.

Coffee boy huh? Ok then. Whooo. He made good coffee in your opinion. I'll leave now.

 

[rochrist]

Coffee boy huh? Ok then. Whooo. He made good coffee in your opinion. I'll leave now.

That was his first year with the team. He was a first year ‘personnel assistant’ which, yeah, not much more than a coffee boy. He was 24.

 

[Betterthanmost]

I want to see Harry lighting it up. Some guys just blossom late.

 

[venecol]

You are violating the rules by using facts to support your position.

Here are some other facts that temper his facts:

7-0 record against teams <.500
3-8 record against teams >.500

64 Pts allowed vs teams <.500
286 Pts allowed vs teams >.500

9.1 ppg allowed vs teams <.500
26.0 ppg allowed vs teams >.500

248 Pts scored vs teams <.500
231 Pts scored vs teams >.500

35.4 ppg scored vs teams <.500
21.0 ppg scored vs teams >.500

IOW, the season stats were padded by beating up on bottom dwellers. Those are facts nobody wants to admit.

 

[captain stone]

seems to be a replaceable backup biggie

fify

 

[captain stone]

4.6 is excellent for a guy over 240 lb. His agility isn't great though.

View attachment 43676

Not great, but he shouldn't be asked to cover Slot Receivers too often either... He should be able to hang vs TEs, though some RBs could still give him problems... Of course everything depends on his recovery from his injury last year & the return of whatever agility he had before it...

 

[captain stone]

Have a look at the two plays from 0:47 and tell me if you're happy to have Guy and Davis as your interior DLs.

Carl Davis actually WALKED THE **** AWAY from the pile that eventually put the RB in the EZ, just so he could ****ing b!tch to the zebra about something...he started waving his arm before the ****ing play was even ****ing over!

Absolutely ****ing horrible... Dude's a ****ing blob of ****ing lazy-ass ****ing sh!t.

EDIT: On closer inspection, Carl's Junior might be motioning to the sidelines to take himself out of the next play before the current play is even over yet... Dude ****ing Sucks.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Here are some other facts that temper his facts:

7-0 record against teams <.500
3-8 record against teams >.500

64 Pts allowed vs teams <.500
286 Pts allowed vs teams >.500

9.1 ppg allowed vs teams <.500
26.0 ppg allowed vs teams >.500

248 Pts scored vs teams <.500
231 Pts scored vs teams >.500

35.4 ppg scored vs teams <.500
21.0 ppg scored vs teams >.500

IOW, the season stats were padded by beating up on bottom dwellers. Those are facts nobody wants to admit.

This is a perfect example why you can't throw around "__ ranked" in whatever category without looking deeper into it. I've had breakdown's like this several times, but many posters like to ignore it and like to go right back to "#2 in points per game".

Posters want to copy and paste a quick stat, but don't want to do the homework on how they got there. How did they do against teams that can actually run the ball? How did they do against teams that couldn't run the football? When they scored, did they even need to run it in? Did that team even want to run it in - meaning are they a passing offense?

Here's the only RB's that were a potentially tough matchup:
Leonard Fournette.
Christian McCaffery who was coming off an injury.
A declining Ezekiel Elliot.
Jonathon Taylor.

That's it. Yet, they still let up 123 yards per game.

The Pats have been soft for years up front and it's bizarre how many posters are in denial of not seeing them constantly getting pushed back and chasing RB's. Too many times I've seen the DL's nameplates on their jersey's. No stat will convince me otherwise.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This is a perfect example why you can't throw around "__ ranked" in whatever category without looking deeper into it. I've had breakdown's like this several times, but many posters like to ignore it and like to go right back to "#2 in points per game".

Posters want to copy and paste a quick stat, but don't want to do the homework on how they got there. How did they do against teams that can actually run the ball? How did they do against teams that couldn't run the football? When they scored, did they even need to run it in? Did that team even want to run it in - meaning are they a passing offense?

Here's the only RB's that were a potentially tough matchup:
Leonard Fournette.
Christian McCaffery who was coming off an injury.
A declining Ezekiel Elliot.
Jonathon Taylor.

That's it. Yet, they still let up 123 yards per game.

The Pats have been soft for years up front and it's bizarre how many posters are in denial of not seeing them constantly getting pushed back and chasing RB's. Too many times I've seen the DL's nameplates on their jersey's. No stat will convince me otherwise.

Not many posters are in denial. News flash - almost every poster wanted a big fatty in R2 or R3 of the 2022 draft. The only denial is that almost everyone agrees with you and you are yelling at the wind.

 

[mgteich]

Here are some other facts that temper his facts:

7-0 record against teams <.500
3-8 record against teams >.500

64 Pts allowed vs teams <.500
286 Pts allowed vs teams >.500

9.1 ppg allowed vs teams <.500
26.0 ppg allowed vs teams >.500

248 Pts scored vs teams <.500
231 Pts scored vs teams >.500

35.4 ppg scored vs teams <.500
21.0 ppg scored vs teams >.500

IOW, the season stats were padded by beating up on bottom dwellers. Those are facts nobody wants to admit.

Are you suggesting that say BUF didn't beat up on weaker teams?

You succeed in this league by beating the weak teams and come close to even against the winning teams. BTW, what were the comparable stats for BUF?

 

[venecol]

Are you suggesting that say BUF didn't beat up on weaker teams?

You succeed in this league by beating the weak teams and come close to even against the winning teams. BTW, what were the comparable stats for BUF?

IDK about BUF. They beat MIA & NE twice + KC but they lost to TEN & JAX, so I assume better than we did. I'm mainly talking about beating above avg teams, not running up scores.

There are other teams where that wasn't the case. The contenders.

 

[venecol]

Are you suggesting that say BUF didn't beat up on weaker teams?

You succeed in this league by beating the weak teams and come close to even against the winning teams. BTW, what were the comparable stats for BUF?

Buffalo:

6-1 record against teams <.500
6-6 record against teams >.500

Record against teams >.500:

Pats: .273
Bills: .500

 

[venecol]

Buffalo:

6-1 record against teams <.500
6-6 record against teams >.500

Record against teams >.500:

Pats: .273
Bills: .500

Miami:

6-2 record against teams <.500
3-6 record against teams >.500

Record against teams >.500:

Pats: .273
Bills: .500
Phins: .333
Jets: .167

 

[TheRainMaker]

Are you suggesting that say BUF didn't beat up on weaker teams?

Since we’re going down the rabbit hole with Buffalo, according to the Patsfans.com criteria, they were the #1 defense in the NFL. No fecking way they were the best D in the NFL.

Same goes for Dallas on offense.