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Content Post Idle thoughts - the "we finally won one" edition

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 81.7% at BUF: 18.3%

Mon
Dec 6th

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I don't see how anyone can say this. Even the "average" QBs that have won the Super Bowl of late like Foles and Flacco had all time great playoff runs in which they played like elite passers. You aren't winning a title with average QB play, especially not in the AFC and the way the conference is shaping up with young QBs.
Facetious remark
 

SlowGettingUp

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Other teams watch tape too, and so initially we can expect 8 in the box, middle of the field flooded and hyper-alert for screens. Best way to counter that is some shots downfield to Agholor or some good seam routes by the tight ends to make them pay for single-high. So I'm guessing the beginning of the next game is going to present a very different picture from what we just saw.
 

patfanken

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I am all for civil discussion. Not on board with someone who gate-keeps opinions and is snarky but actually is a fake expert. (Not talking about you).


For you, I have long enjoyed your opinions but trying to defend Herron and Durant who are ranked 49th and 50th right now really also puts a dent into whether you've been paying attention at all this year.

.
Not defending their play....TO DATE, but understanding that taking a snap shot of a player's performance is just not fair. I can only think of Matt Light as an example. There were several games where Matt couldn't contain a rusher, especially speed rushers, and eventually, when the Pats ran into such a player they would add an inline TE to chip the rusher before going out on his route.

Now I don't know much about Durant except he did a good job in limited action against Miami, but Herron has the physical skills and quickness to have a solid NFL career; So I believe it would be prudent not to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.
 

reflexblue

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1. It was probably created by a Broncos or St Louis Rams fan, there were many fan blogs dedicated to the firing of the worst HC or OC in their franchise history.

2. It's absolutely fabulous that your avatar is an admission of your total draft eval failure, but you still can't help yourself so have still been adding in these little quips about Mac's arm strength. I love it. What a conflicted feeling you have. A pathetic attempt to troll, but you were dead wrong on the guy, and now still trying to add about all the crappy little critiques you had about the guy to keep saying don't draft him. Juggling all these mental contradictions must be hard for a construction worker.

.
Ive only put one poster on ignore, it was because of his signature. Which while amusing became annoying after many months. In your case your just simply a clown.
 
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mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
Once Mac improves his lower body strength & further augments his mechanics, the ball will have more “zip” & velocity. He’s a rookie..geez smdh..
To be clear, do you think that a first round QB shouldn't be expected to have zip on the ball because this isn't important in college QB's, sort of like expecting RB's to block and pick up b;itzes?
 

Uptown

Standin' Pat
To be clear, do you think that a first round QB shouldn't be expected to have zip on the ball because this isn't important in college QB's, sort of like expecting RB's to block and pick up b;itzes?
He has zip, but not as much as guys like Wilson, Mahomes, Allen etc. Some guys are naturally gifted in certain aspects, whereas others aren’t. It doesn’t necessarily make them better or worse. However, Mac’s ability will improve once he gets in the weight room & develops his body/mechanics.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I think he has plenty velocity when his footwork and mechanics are right. He is very much like Brady, and perhaps may have a little more velocity that Brady had coming into the league. But Brady mastered his footwork and mechanics and added velocity over the years. He is STILL working on those mechanics and his velocity seems just a good as ever.

Mac, I believe is very much like Brady in that respect. When he uses his legs and hips, his ball zips. Where he lacks the arm strength of a Mahomes or Lance or Wilson is the ability to make those 50 yd cross body throws off his back foot kind of arm strength. That flaw was why he slipped to us at 15. A lot of coaches are enamored by that kind of skill set. But I can certainly live with that if he continues to show he knows how to lead a team and gets better at what this offense needs him to be, and that is NOT throwing the ball across the field 50 yds off his back foot;
How long, I wonder, before we start seeing Tommy John surgery becoming a thing in the NFL?
 

NFLmac

On the Roster
That was me.

I wasn't complaining that you posted it, just warning that it was a faint praise job, and shouldn't be used for comparative purposes.

I've watched everyone of the "QB School" videos, and I've never seen him be so critical as he generally posts good analysis of good QB play. He lingered with relish on Mac's first snap which everyone else has chalked up to rookie jitters, and was not even predictive of the rest of his first game, let alone his career. He rated Mac poorly in his draft preview, and preferred all the other 1st round QB's. He posted the video you referenced because Mac's being thought of as (by far) the most successful rookie QB (so far) could be an embarrassment for him. Hence he went out of his way to find fault -- all of it correctly -- and downplay success.

I agree it was a very useful analysis, but he focused on the bad and barely mentioned the good -- never mentioned Mac's success vs the blitz, and how many times he executed and took a hit, his GOAT rookie debut completion %, etc. Definitely a faint praise job.

BTW by almost any measure Mac is so far the best rookie QB -- by far. He's not setting the world on fire, but he's the 18th best QB by QBR and 21st by DVOA. Below average and slightly below replacement value. But Trevor Lawrence and Zac Wilson are far worse and the 31st and 32nd rated starters.

IIRC you much preferred Justin Fields. He hasn't played a full game yet, but he's been putrid so far, 7.3 QBR and an incredible -145% DVOA.

And Trey lance hasn't done much of anything. He clearly has the lowest floor of all these QB's. SF obviously chose him over Mac because Garoppolo is Trey Lance's real floor so they could safely bet on his upside. Good luck with that.

So Mac has so far proven to be -- as expected -- the readiest rookie QB, and as of this point definitely has the highest floor, but only that of a mediocre NFL starter if he doesn't improve.

But all these QB's will improve, the big question is by how much. Maybe the other QB's just have steeper learning curves and will eventually leave Mac in the dust. It's certainly possible.

It's also possible that the very traits that led to Mac being so much more NFL ready coming out of college will lead to him to improve his game even faster than the other rookie QB's are capable of and he will widen the gap. Several commentators are even saying Mac would go #1 overall if a redraft were done today. Worse than premature to say that, of course. But he's exceeding a lot of low expectations.

There are a lot of folks on record as dissing Mac coming out of college, and most of them are still at it, including JT.

Mac is now ours, so we all need to hope the naysayers are wrong. We shall see.
Really well said, Kashmir.
 

zydecochris

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I think he has plenty velocity when his footwork and mechanics are right. He is very much like Brady, and perhaps may have a little more velocity that Brady had coming into the league. But Brady mastered his footwork and mechanics and added velocity over the years. He is STILL working on those mechanics and his velocity seems just a good as ever.

Mac, I believe is very much like Brady in that respect. When he uses his legs and hips, his ball zips. Where he lacks the arm strength of a Mahomes or Lance or Wilson is the ability to make those 50 yd cross body throws off his back foot kind of arm strength. That flaw was why he slipped to us at 15. A lot of coaches are enamored by that kind of skill set. But I can certainly live with that if he continues to show he knows how to lead a team and gets better at what this offense needs him to be, and that is NOT throwing the ball across the field 50 yds off his back foot;
I'm not enough of an football expert to speak of his velocity and zip, but based on watching him at Alabama his range is simply not a problem, in fact he throws just about the prettiest and most accurate long ball I've ever seen from a college QB, it is really a strength for him. I think the problem is lack of time from the OL and moreover him being super-careful to not throw a ball up for grabs. He is a rookie, and naturally still confused by NFL defenses, so he will throw the safe throw every single time unless the receiver is wide open. He was trained that way at Alabama under Saban to not throw interceptions at all costs and we all know that is a point of emphasis with BB also, especially with a rookie who has exactly two NFL games under his belt. BB is the guy who feasts on opposing rookie QBs for lunch, he is hardly going to encourage his own rookie QB to throw the ball 50 yards off of his back foot.

Once Mac gets more familiar with NFL defenses (whether or not it is this year or not) if a receiver gets open downfield and the OL gives Mac time he is perfectly capable of hitting the long ball. If the Pats ever manage to get an electric receiver in a year or two, watch out, it will be a show.
 

zydecochris

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
To be clear, do you think that a first round QB shouldn't be expected to have zip on the ball because this isn't important in college QB's, sort of like expecting RB's to block and pick up b;itzes?
I would put it another way, IMHO it is more training than arm strength.

At Alabama he had a superior Offensive Line, Najee Harris and an extremely strong running game, and 1st rounder WRs like DeVonte Smith, Jaylen Waddle (at least when not injured) and likely future first rounder John Metchie. If a receiver wasn't obviously open, he has been trained to go onto the next play (given that such weapons were at his disposal) instead of trying to force a play and risk an INT by zipping the ball through a tight window.

Now that he is a rookie with only two games under his belt, and only taking the first baby steps in the process of understanding NFL defenses, IMHO he is even less likely to try to force a play. That is why he has been always opting for the safe play, and to his credit he has no INTs.

Once he starts really understanding NFL defenses and learns that he at least needs to take more risks than he did with the weapons he had at Alabama, I think we will see somewhat less conservative play, and definitely more shots down the field (the long ball is really his strength).

However, even after he starts to take more risks he probably will never be the type to continually throw the ball up for grabs like Wilson did last Sunday, it isn't in his nature IMHO. ....And to tell the truth I'm fine with that ;)
 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
To get to 2-2 we're going to need to beat the Saints. We're not beating Brady and the Bucs early in the season when he's on the warpath to show us just what we gave up when BB pushed him out the door.

Overall it was a good win.

Mac Jones is still a rookie. He took what the defense gave him and not much more than that but most importantly he didn't turn over the ball and give a short field for the Jets to work with.

Secondary of course looked very good, forcing those 4 picks. And yet idiots like Nick Wright still insist that 'letting it rip' even when it results in 4 turnovers is the correct way to coach a rookie QB. *SMH*

The whole offense is a work in progress. BB signed some talent in the offseason but due to practice rules, none of them have really had a lot of time to build chemistry together, particularly since half the snaps were given to Cam for the QB competition.

Gotta stay patient with the young kid. The pro game is still coming fast for him. Once things 'slow down' for Mac, he can really start to make progress. For now he's a rookie, keep your expectations in check and enjoy both the UPs and Downs. At least he appears to have legit talent and a good head on his shoulders.

I'll predict right now Mac Jones is gonna have top 2 numbers out of the 5 rookie QBs taken in the 1st round this year. About the only guy I think might do significantly better is Trevor Lawrence. Zach Wilson looks on the verge of meltdown territory if he continues to have bad games like this. And the Jets will have ruined another significant talent with their terrible team building. I mean just look how good Sam Darnold is looking with the Panthers. All it took was a uniform change and a change of scenery away from the armpit that is the NYJ.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I'm not enough of an football expert to speak of his velocity and zip, but based on watching him at Alabama his range is simply not a problem, in fact he throws just about the prettiest and most accurate long ball I've ever seen from a college QB, it is really a strength for him. I think the problem is lack of time from the OL and moreover him being super-careful to not throw a ball up for grabs. He is a rookie, and naturally still confused by NFL defenses, so he will throw the safe throw every single time unless the receiver is wide open. He was trained that way at Alabama under Saban to not throw interceptions at all costs and we all know that is a point of emphasis with BB also, especially with a rookie who has exactly two NFL games under his belt. BB is the guy who feasts on opposing rookie QBs for lunch, he is hardly going to encourage his own rookie QB to throw the ball 50 yards off of his back foot.

Once Mac gets more familiar with NFL defenses (whether or not it is this year or not) if a receiver gets open downfield and the OL gives Mac time he is perfectly capable of hitting the long ball. If the Pats ever manage to get an electric receiver in a year or two, watch out, it will be a show.
They have one. His name is Nelson Agholor, and he was second in the league in YPC last year. If you're talking about a true #1, my fear is two-fold: $$$$$ and diva-status. The Pats have several good options on the field every snap now and I've always preferred spreading the ball around rather than locking in - a lot of those WRs get disruptive if they're not seeing X number of throws their way each game.

That doesn't play to the strength of this team.

Also, Kendrick Bourne plays a lot faster than I expected. He'll get some breakaways.

And things are just warming up with Smith and Henry. Smith is explosive. Henry is savvy.
 

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