Content Post Idle thoughts - the "we finally won one" edition

[SlowGettingUp]

 

[patfanken]

Do you think this relates to those scouting concerns about upside/velocity? Or is this just a different issue altogether?

I think he has plenty velocity when his footwork and mechanics are right. He is very much like Brady, and perhaps may have a little more velocity that Brady had coming into the league. But Brady mastered his footwork and mechanics and added velocity over the years. He is STILL working on those mechanics and his velocity seems just a good as ever.

Mac, I believe is very much like Brady in that respect. When he uses his legs and hips, his ball zips. Where he lacks the arm strength of a Mahomes or Lance or Wilson is the ability to make those 50 yd cross body throws off his back foot kind of arm strength. That flaw was why he slipped to us at 15. A lot of coaches are enamored by that kind of skill set. But I can certainly live with that if he continues to show he knows how to lead a team and gets better at what this offense needs him to be, and that is NOT throwing the ball across the field 50 yds off his back foot;

 

[patfanken]

Which is actually really pathetic how one can supposedly watch a lot of film and come way with so many wrong conclusions. But I guess that's what happens when someone's IQ level is capped at being a construction worker who doubles as a fake draft expert. Classic example of someone who tries but just doesn't have the talent or mental aptitude. I love that you made your avatar as a daily foot in the mouth for all of your wrong QB draft posts from 2020 to April'21. In a way it's admirable that you immediately dumped all your analysis at the drop of a hat, once the team did the exact opposite of whatever you said to do in the draft, I do admire this truly. You also serve as a conscientious re-tweeter of other people's thoughts, will give you that too.

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No what is pathetic is a mini melomaniac who thinks he is smarter than EVERYONE here and the professionals who have successfully done this PROFESSIONALLY for over 2 decades Those who have infinitely more resources and information to make those decisions. We get you are passionate. But quite simply you are now just being an *******, insulting posters and just making an overall fool of yourself. If you can't be civil get off my damned thread. I post it to encourage a civil discussion of FOOTBALL, not for it to be your outlet to insult others.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

No

I am all for civil discussion. Not on board with someone who gate-keeps opinions and is snarky but actually is a fake expert. (Not talking about you).


For you, I have long enjoyed your opinions but trying to defend Herron and Durant who are ranked 49th and 50th right now really also puts a dent into whether you've been paying attention at all this year.

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[DropKickFlutie]

I think he has plenty velocity when his footwork and mechanics are right. He is very much like Brady, and perhaps may have a little more velocity that Brady had coming into the league. But Brady mastered his footwork and mechanics and added velocity over the years. He is STILL working on those mechanics and his velocity seems just a good as ever.

Mac, I believe is very much like Brady in that respect. When he uses his legs and hips, his ball zips. Where he lacks the arm strength of a Mahomes or Lance or Wilson is the ability to make those 50 yd cross body throws off his back foot kind of arm strength. That flaw was why he slipped to us at 15. A lot of coaches are enamored by that kind of skill set. But I can certainly live with that if he continues to show he knows how to lead a team and gets better at what this offense needs him to be, and that is NOT throwing the ball across the field 50 yds off his back foot;

Agree. And Mac could use a year to build his body as I've said. But you have fake experts here trying to say Mac throwing short a lot is his weak arm strength when it's actually the crappy OLine.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Agree. And Mac could use a year to build his body as I've said. But you have fake experts here trying to say Mac throwing short a lot is his weak arm strength when it's actually the crappy OLine.

 

[patfanken]

Mac is making the right read most of the time. The OLine SUCKS where it's 4 Olinemen and a crappy right tackle. When you have zero time to throw the right play is get it out fast, a lot of short passes. Mac has a beautiful deep ball but it's not worth taking a viscous hit 9 times a game just to get your overrated oc his next HC job.

Having said this, it's also true Mac needed a year to get his body NFL ready. This is why him learning for a year wasn't a bad move, we're throwing the kid in when his body could have used a year to develop (and also work with Tom House). Was saying in pre-season he had to put all his body into throws to really get zip. It's not a huge problem as he has a great arcing deep ball and most other throws don't need to be bullet throws. He has excellent timing and anticipation. Mac can make all the throws. His arm strength is not the reason for the snowhort passing game, it's the crappy OLine giving zero time.

Mac's arm strength isn't to blame for a ton of short quick throws, this is the right read when your OLine is total garbage right now. If skippy keeps calling shotgun but the OLine sucks, the right play is a quick throw. Mac is doing the right thing. It's not because his arm strength is insufficient because the fake-expert construction worker guy said so.

Bedard did a break down of about 5 or 6 of the Pats redzone failures vs the Jets. He goes into great detail about the down distance and the play itself. On all but one he felt McDaniel's call was a good one and the play failed because of a lack of execution on the Pats. On one call he thought Josh should have been more aggressive. I don't know if you get BSJ, but he does these breakdowns everyweek.

BTW- A thought DID occur to me about Mac's conservative choices in the 2nd half. Situational football. The Pats had a 2 score lead for most of the 2nd half before increasing it to a 3 score lead. The only way the Jets get back into this game is if the Pats turn the ball over. The Mac never made this an issue. His job was to take time off the clock, create good field position and score if possible. DON'T lose the game....and he didn't.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He's definitely playing safe, no doubt about it. So a lot of it is just making it happen and attempting those passes.

The Agholor and Henry one's from Sunday stick out. Like he doesn't have that natural zip or velocity to where he sees it and bang - ball is loose. He has to get his feet set, load up and drive himself into that pass to make those throws. You saw in Wilson even though they were going to the other team. He doesn't have a cannon (although I heard he hit 60mph Sunday) but he hasn't natural arm talent, ability to launch from different angles.

Few and far between in terms of that stuff but yea it definitely shows up even compared to a Z Wilson or Murray. Just something that'll take a good year or two to really be + NFL level.

I think he has plenty velocity when his footwork and mechanics are right. He is very much like Brady, and perhaps may have a little more velocity that Brady had coming into the league. But Brady mastered his footwork and mechanics and added velocity over the years. He is STILL working on those mechanics and his velocity seems just a good as ever.

Mac, I believe is very much like Brady in that respect. When he uses his legs and hips, his ball zips. Where he lacks the arm strength of a Mahomes or Lance or Wilson is the ability to make those 50 yd cross body throws off his back foot kind of arm strength. That flaw was why he slipped to us at 15. A lot of coaches are enamored by that kind of skill set. But I can certainly live with that if he continues to show he knows how to lead a team and gets better at what this offense needs him to be, and that is NOT throwing the ball across the field 50 yds off his back foot;

Thanks for the breakdowns…very interesting. Hopefully he’ll hit a few big plays soon and start gaining some confidence.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

A

Bedard did a break down of about 5 or 6 of the Pats redzone failures vs the Jets. He goes into great detail about the down distance and the play itself. On all but one he felt McDaniel's call was a good one and the play failed because of a lack of execution on the Pats. On one call he thought Josh should have been more aggressive. I don't know if you get BSJ, but he does these breakdowns everyweek.

BTW- A thought DID occur to me about Mac's conservative choices in the 2nd half. Situational football. The Pats had a 2 score lead for most of the 2nd half before increasing it to a 3 score lead. The only way the Jets get back into this game is if the Pats turn the ball over. The Mac never made this an issue. His job was to take time off the clock, create good field position and score if possible. DON'T lose the game....and he didn't.

Good point. I'm less concerned that the Pats didn't execute in the red zone in 1 game against the lowly Jets, as I am that this is a pattern of red zone ineptitude going back to Chad O'Shea leaving (used to be in charge of red zone offense), and also Gronk then Brady leaving. I am miffed when the Pats aren't using play action in the red zone especially with 2 good tight ends.

As for Mac in the 2nd half, the team clearly noticed the sacks and hits in the first half and shut it down. I trust Mac to be making the right decisions. Even in the first half it was no flaw in his arm that he was going with quick throws, this was most oftentimes the right choice given his OLine was poor and he didn't have 2 TE blocking help while in shotgun so often.

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[Kasmir]

I poster this last week in my thread and a poster took offense to it saying JT was biased and blaming Mac for the loss lol.

I actually understand why it would bother some. It's full of insight and knowledge and gods knows you don't get that here.

That was me.

I wasn't complaining that you posted it, just warning that it was a faint praise job, and shouldn't be used for comparative purposes.

I've watched everyone of the "QB School" videos, and I've never seen him be so critical as he generally posts good analysis of good QB play. He lingered with relish on Mac's first snap which everyone else has chalked up to rookie jitters, and was not even predictive of the rest of his first game, let alone his career. He rated Mac poorly in his draft preview, and preferred all the other 1st round QB's. He posted the video you referenced because Mac's being thought of as (by far) the most successful rookie QB (so far) could be an embarrassment for him. Hence he went out of his way to find fault -- all of it correctly -- and downplay success.

I agree it was a very useful analysis, but he focused on the bad and barely mentioned the good -- never mentioned Mac's success vs the blitz, and how many times he executed and took a hit, his GOAT rookie debut completion %, etc. Definitely a faint praise job.

BTW by almost any measure Mac is so far the best rookie QB -- by far. He's not setting the world on fire, but he's the 18th best QB by QBR and 21st by DVOA. Below average and slightly below replacement value. But Trevor Lawrence and Zac Wilson are far worse and the 31st and 32nd rated starters.

IIRC you much preferred Justin Fields. He hasn't played a full game yet, but he's been putrid so far, 7.3 QBR and an incredible -145% DVOA.

And Trey lance hasn't done much of anything. He clearly has the lowest floor of all these QB's. SF obviously chose him over Mac because Garoppolo is Trey Lance's real floor so they could safely bet on his upside. Good luck with that.

So Mac has so far proven to be -- as expected -- the readiest rookie QB, and as of this point definitely has the highest floor, but only that of a mediocre NFL starter if he doesn't improve.

But all these QB's will improve, the big question is by how much. Maybe the other QB's just have steeper learning curves and will eventually leave Mac in the dust. It's certainly possible.

It's also possible that the very traits that led to Mac being so much more NFL ready coming out of college will lead to him to improve his game even faster than the other rookie QB's are capable of and he will widen the gap. Several commentators are even saying Mac would go #1 overall if a redraft were done today. Worse than premature to say that, of course. But he's exceeding a lot of low expectations.

There are a lot of folks on record as dissing Mac coming out of college, and most of them are still at it, including JT.

Mac is now ours, so we all need to hope the naysayers are wrong. We shall see.

 

[Kasmir]

In my ideal world over this next off season we get a story about how Jones spent a week at Brady's house talking football.

That would be great, but there is no way Brady wants Mac to be successful under Belichick.

 

[Kasmir]

Very interesting. Pats defense is also 3rd overall by DVOA. Offense is 21st. Team overall is 11th.

 

[venecol]

That was me.

I wasn't complaining that you posted it, just warning that it was a faint praise job, and shouldn't be used for comparative purposes.

I've watched everyone of the "QB School" videos, and I've never seen him be so critical as he generally posts good analysis of good QB play. He lingered with relish on Mac's first snap which everyone else has chalked up to rookie jitters, and was not even predictive of the rest of his first game, let alone his career. He rated Mac poorly in his draft preview, and preferred all the other 1st round QB's. He posted the video you referenced because Mac's being thought of as (by far) the most successful rookie QB (so far) could be an embarrassment for him. Hence he went out of his way to find fault -- all of it correctly -- and downplay success.

I agree it was a very useful analysis, but he focused on the bad and barely mentioned the good -- never mentioned Mac's success vs the blitz, and how many times he executed and took a hit, his GOAT rookie debut completion %, etc. Definitely a faint praise job.

BTW by almost any measure Mac is so far the best rookie QB -- by far. He's not setting the world on fire, but he's the 18th best QB by QBR and 21st by DVOA. Below average and slightly below replacement value. But Trevor Lawrence and Zac Wilson are far worse and the 31st and 32nd rated starters.

IIRC you much preferred Justin Fields. He hasn't played a full game yet, but he's been putrid so far, 7.3 QBR and an incredible -145% DVOA.

And Trey lance hasn't done much of anything. He clearly has the lowest floor of all these QB's. SF obviously chose him over Mac because Garoppolo is Trey Lance's real floor so they could safely bet on his upside. Good luck with that.

So Mac has so far proven to be -- as expected -- the readiest rookie QB, and as of this point definitely has the highest floor, but only that of a mediocre NFL starter if he doesn't improve.

But all these QB's will improve, the big question is by how much. Maybe the other QB's just have steeper learning curves and will eventually leave Mac in the dust. It's certainly possible.

It's also possible that the very traits that led to Mac being so much more NFL ready coming out of college will lead to him to improve his game even faster than the other rookie QB's are capable of and he will widen the gap. Several commentators are even saying Mac would go #1 overall if a redraft were done today. Worse than premature to say that, of course. But he's exceeding a lot of low expectations.

There are a lot of folks on record as dissing Mac coming out of college, and most of them are still at it, including JT.

Mac is now ours, so we all need to hope the naysayers are wrong. We shall see.

Mac just needs to be average for Bill to win another SB.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Mac just needs to be average for Bill to win another SB.

Agree. I think Mac as an efficient game manager who throws less than 12 int's, yes could win if:
- Gilmore is there. If not forget it. Secondary has to be elite.
- Fix the run defense. Godchaux and Bentley aren't going to be champions.
- Stabilize the OLine. Either stay healthy or figure out a better lineup.

 

[rochrist]

The world must be super confusing for someone like you, I'm literally imagining Forrest Gump without the luck.

You're 10, right?

 

[rochrist]

Bedard did a break down of about 5 or 6 of the Pats redzone failures vs the Jets. He goes into great detail about the down distance and the play itself. On all but one he felt McDaniel's call was a good one and the play failed because of a lack of execution on the Pats. On one call he thought Josh should have been more aggressive. I don't know if you get BSJ, but he does these breakdowns everyweek.

BTW- A thought DID occur to me about Mac's conservative choices in the 2nd half. Situational football. The Pats had a 2 score lead for most of the 2nd half before increasing it to a 3 score lead. The only way the Jets get back into this game is if the Pats turn the ball over. The Mac never made this an issue. His job was to take time off the clock, create good field position and score if possible. DON'T lose the game....and he didn't.

That Bedard breakdown was excellent.

 

[rochrist]

That would be great, but there is no way Brady wants Mac to be successful under Belichick.

I don't think either of these guys are quite the petty little children some of you think they are.

 

[Kasmir]

I don't think either of these guys are quite the petty little children some of you think they are.

It's about legacy for both of them. Nothing petty or childish about that. And they are both super competitive.

 

[RodThePat]

Mac just needs to be average for Bill to win another SB.

I don't see how anyone can say this. Even the "average" QBs that have won the Super Bowl of late like Foles and Flacco had all time great playoff runs in which they played like elite passers. You aren't winning a title with average QB play, especially not in the AFC and the way the conference is shaping up with young QBs.

 

[doesntmatter1]

After rewatching many things, I got to say I am extremely happy with Mac. His decisions are on point. We should be 2-0. Why push things unless you have to. Wilson's 4 int is what happens when rookies push things. His worst play was the intentional grounding play. If he has more time he probably throws a td to Henry. He also could have ran the two yards or ya know actually throw the ball to White instead of the ground. Hopefully that was just remnants of his time with Cam lol.

In the last game I didn't care for how fast he went to the running backs when they were covered. White and Harris took immediate big shots from passes in the flat that they somehow held onto. Those kind of hits shouldn't happen on a dump off and those passes definitely should have gone in another direction.