What do we want to see at Training Camp

[Wozzy]

You obviously don't watch a lot of actual Patriots games, or take a beer break when the defense is on the field.

The guy is 6'5" 320 pounds, he is a nose tackle.

 

[captain stone]

The guy is 6'5" 320 pounds, he is a nose tackle.

Yes he is, and yes he is.

He's also not as good as you think he is.

 

[Pats2000]

After reading Reiss' article, I have to believe the Patriots have one of, if not, the worse LB corps in the league.

Is there any position group you don't think is one of if not the worst in the league?

 

[captain stone]

Is there any position group you don't think is one of if not the worst in the league?

Regarding the defense, the Safeties are pretty good... And that's it.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Not sure who I get a kick out of more. Andy or Wozzy. Such conviction, blanket "this is how it is" statements covering everything from A to B. Really fun guys.

 

[patfanken]

Yes, Jennings will be tried at DE. The staff will try every position for him. Maybe he can contribute at DE. It is his last chance.

I hear you on us expecting to count on the players you named. We are counting on Wilson who is a top STer, and may be good enough to be the #3 ILB (or perhaps it is the untested McGrone as a backup inside).

For me, the real question is OLB. We seem to be really needing to count on Uche and Perkins. I guess if Judon is ever out, we'll just fold our tent and concede.

I fully agree with your first thought about Jennings, but I have to disagree with your thoughts about the LB corps.

Over the last few years we've seen more and more issues with our underneath coverage in the passing game. Too often we've seen big plays come out of short throws. Way to many have been completed and even more have allowed too much YAC from LB's who can't make the tackle soon after the catch.

The Pats move in adding guys like Uche, Wilson, McGrone as well as Phillips Duggar and Peppers (safeties that can all be used on the 2nd level) give us a level of speed that we've never seen on a Pats team. Bentley who at one point was one of the faster ILB's we had, is now the slowest, but who was kept as the link who knows the defense best, and has been a good run stopper....at times.

OLB is a real question mark. I have always hoped Uche would be used more inside like the Cowboys use Parsons so often last year. His uber quickness but light in the pantsness could be covered a bit behind the DL and then just use him off the edge in passing situations. In an ideal world Perkins can develop into a Judon like player. Set the edge well and rush the passer consistently enough to be of value.

With the 3 so called SS's I can see the defense going 3 S's a lot this year and use those boys a lot to rush the passer. The Pats over the 20 glory years have rarely had many pure "pass rushers" who got a lot of sacks. Bill has valued consistent hurries and hits as important too. And too that end the Pats have schemed their rushes very well, so while they rarely had a great individual sacker (Willie and vrabel had just just one double digit sack year each IIRC. Who during the 2nd decade had great sack years. Chandler Jone is the only one who came to mind. But despite the lack of name brand pass rushers, when the regular season ended, somehow the Pats would wind up in the top 10 in the league in sacks. I see THIS defense being capable of have just that kind of year and generate a pass rush that will be good enough to be competitive.

 

[Wozzy]

Yes he is, and yes he is.

He's also not as good as you think he is.

He played well in short minutes, he’s always been talented, he just can’t stay healthy. They need 10-12 snaps a game from him… hardly me calling him “super duper good.” Not every player is going to be an All Pro… that’s not realistic.

Also he’s a Nose Tackle in a passing league, his kind went from 2-4 men on a roster in the early 2000’s, to one on the roster now. That’s why he’s cheap.

Not everyone everyone will be Christian Barmore, every team needs at least one massive guy in the middle to stuff runs and you pay them for the snaps they play… very little.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Carl Davis is a great run stuffer and good athlete, his only issue has been staying healthy. The Pats only used him 12 or so plays a game situationally to spell Godchaux on short downs and goal line which works, he just needs to stay healthy. Barmore holds up against the run very well, as does Guy. I think they're getting a little old and thin here but if healthy this group will be fine.

I hope youre right... They have alot to prove

 

[Kasmir]

I think folks are overreacting to the collapse at the end of the season. For the season, the defense was 2nd in points/game and 4th in yards/game. By DVOA they were 4th overall: 3rd against the pass and 10th against the run.

Yes they got injured and collapsed vs a red hot uninjured Buffalo in the last two games -- after beating them in Buffalo in the 1st game.

But folks here are talking as if they had a bad defense last year which just isn't true.

And Belichick has taken radical restructuring action anyway so he's hardly complacent. He chose not to extend Van Noy; Hightower and Collins remain unsigned by anyone. The LB changes are deliberate. Yes they lost JC but they've brought in lots of CB help including the return of Jonathan Jones.

I certainly caution against betting that Belichick will field a bad defense this year.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I fully agree with your first thought about Jennings, but I have to disagree with your thoughts about the LB corps.

Over the last few years we've seen more and more issues with our underneath coverage in the passing game. Too often we've seen big plays come out of short throws. Way to many have been completed and even more have allowed too much YAC from LB's who can't make the tackle soon after the catch.

This is actually a littke bit of a misconception Ken. We hide our LB's probably as well as anyone in the league relative to their weaknesses. And really don't ask them "cover" that much, more fill space and take away throwing lanes. Bentley and HT were middle of pack in terms of yards given up last year. Like 260 & 290. They've had their moments but get more blame than they deserve in that department.

That said we need athleticism there like we need air to breathe. It's a huge unknown but I like the emphasis on more athleticism.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

 

[Zuma]

Yes he is, and yes he is.

He's also not as good as you think he is.

Carl Davis is bad man...but he's never put it together on the field and I'm not sure he ever will.

 

[Zuma]

Damn...Tre looks impressive. Yeah nobody was covering him but speed and quickness looks good.

 

[Salsalife]

Anymore videos?

 

[Salsalife]

For me it starts with this coaching staff. There is so much teaching to happen in a really short amount of time. Can Bill teach the coaches, teach the players and construct a defensive and offensive philosopy that will work for 2022?

 

[mgteich]

Carl Davis is bad man...but he's never put it together on the field and I'm not sure he ever will.

seems to be a reasonable backup biggie

 

[SlowGettingUp]

McMillan ran a 4.61 one forty... decent but nothing amazing, his 4.39 shuttle and 7.15 three cone were nothing to write home about but were decent also... the fact that he did this at 241 pounds makes it a little less impressive

4.6 is excellent for a guy over 240 lb. His agility isn't great though.

 

[venecol]

Is there any position group you don't think is one of if not the worst in the league?

RBs and Safeties

 

[venecol]

Also he’s a Nose Tackle in a passing league, his kind went from 2-4 men on a roster in the early 2000’s, to one on the roster now. That’s why he’s cheap.

every team needs at least one massive guy in the middle to stuff runs and you pay them for the snaps they play… very little.

Vita Vea disagrees with you.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

You obviously don't watch a lot of actual Patriots games, or take a beer break when the defense is on the field.

The guy is 6'5" 320 pounds, he is a nose tackle.

i watch every game, i do drink during games as well i admit that, but if Carl Davis is as good as you think, he wouldn't come for short term low value deals to us. Nose Tackle who are that good and athletic as you make him to be are rare and get big contracts. Fatukasi got a big deal from the jags e.g.. Carl Davis is a low tier starter at best imo, more a backup. If he is that good, why did he not play more? Our run defense certainly needed help