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What do we want to see at Training Camp

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One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
Getting a winning % by having a 1.000% against <.500 teams & a terrible .272% against >.500 teams is exactly how those teams get blown out in the playoffs. They're pretenders.

You are cherry picking stats to support your argument. It is easy to parse stats to state anything you want them to say.
 

One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
Nixon looks really sudden. Interesting wildcard in the upcoming WR battle.

Nixon looks much more sudden than I expected. It will be interesting in camp. Mac and Agholor both say Nixon is the hardest worker, we will see. :) I would love to preserve the suddeness in the slot while adding some speed. We need to stretch the opposing defenses.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
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You are cherry picking stats to support your argument. It is easy to parse stats to state anything you want them to say.
I'm showing the actual record of the Pats against teams w/ winning & losing records. During the season, many posters called MIA pretenders because of this same argument, yet they finished w/ a better record (.333) against teams w/ winning records than the Pats did.
Miami:
6-2 record against teams <.500
3-6 record against teams >.500

Record against teams >.500:
Pats: .273
Bills: .500
Phins: .333
Jets: .167

If the Bills would've gone from #1 seed in the AFC to #6 & gotten blown out in the WC game, you would've been the 1st one laughing at them and calling them pretenders. It is what it is.
 

One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
I'm showing the actual record of the Pats against teams w/ winning & losing records.

Yes you are, and you are also "cherry picking". It is easy to pull out stats that support your argument if you look at the subset that highlights what you are trying to say. I already gave the example where you stated you were ignoring the last 20 years while concentrating on the last 3 years, that is creating a subset that supports your argument, also referred to as "cherry picking". It is a technique commonly used on this site, you are not alone in your approach.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
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Yes you are, and you are also "cherry picking". It is easy to pull out stats that support your argument if you look at the subset that highlights what you are trying to say. I already gave the example where you stated you were ignoring the last 20 years while concentrating on the last 3 years, that is creating a subset that supports your argument, also referred to as "cherry picking". It is a technique commonly used on this site, you are not alone in your approach.
The last vestiges of the dynasty are two old vets (DM & Slater), a banged up Sweet Feet, Andrews, Jon Jones, Guy, & Wise. Those 20 years were great but the dynasty is dead.

Team has new QB, RBs, WRs, TEs, G, OLB, ILB, CB, S, and coaches.

This is the post-dynasty period.
We're in the post dynasty period.
That's the reality we're all living in. Talking about what happened during the dynasties is irrelevant to what's happening now.

We need to see where this goes, but so far it's dissapointing.

You can call it cherry picking. I call it dealing with the present.
 

mgteich

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Getting a winning % by having a 1.000% against <.500 teams & a terrible .272% against >.500 teams is exactly how those teams get blown out in the playoffs. They're pretenders.
having an equal record against team over and under .500 is the way to stay out of the playoffs
 

40yrpatsfan

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The last vestiges of the dynasty are two old vets (DM & Slater), a banged up Sweet Feet, Andrews, Jon Jones, Guy, & Wise. Those 20 years were great but the dynasty is dead.

Team has new QB, RBs, WRs, TEs, G, OLB, ILB, CB, S, and coaches.

This is the post-dynasty period.
We're in the post dynasty period.
That's the reality we're all living in. Talking about what happened during the dynasties is irrelevant to what's happening now.

We need to see where this goes, but so far it's dissapointing.

You can call it cherry picking. I call it dealing with the present.
Last season wasn’t disappointing, it was encouraging. Brady’s last season (at the end) was disappointing. The Covid season with Cam was a mess but a necessary reset.

We’ve significantly improved our weapons for this season, and our QB is ready. Can’t tell yet about the defense but it will be improved. Be more a fan and less a critic.
 

Ring 6

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A different story for message board posters?

The team would have been the same. The would likely have still lost their first playoff game.
They would have been a 1 seed.
 

Salsalife

Practice Squad Player
Well like the post states what do you want to see in training camp for me it's the Red Zone offense being dominate to start with. Brady in his day was competitive all thru-out camp. If Mac can throw the ball all over the yard on the defense i will be encouraged. That said in my recent posts he's got a new coach to deal with and his way of seeing the offense thru Bill or against Bill. You just don't know?
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
The last vestiges of the dynasty are two old vets (DM & Slater), a banged up Sweet Feet, Andrews, Jon Jones, Guy, & Wise. Those 20 years were great but the dynasty is dead.

Team has new QB, RBs, WRs, TEs, G, OLB, ILB, CB, S, and coaches.

This is the post-dynasty period.
We're in the post dynasty period.
That's the reality we're all living in. Talking about what happened during the dynasties is irrelevant to what's happening now.

We need to see where this goes, but so far it's dissapointing.

You can call it cherry picking. I call it dealing with the present.
C"mon man, of course the dynasty is over.
That's not news. It ended when Brady left.
But how in the world can you call last season disappointing?
Belichick stole Mac in the draft w/o giving up any assets,something few,if any,hcs would've accomplished in his position. That allowed him to get Barmore, a potential stud at a huge position of need.
But getting Mac was the biggest coup of any team in that draft.
All he does is go out and have one of the greatest seasons by a rookie qb in NFL history. He won the lockerroom quickly and showed great leadership work ethic and accuracy while leading the team to the playoffs. Remind you of any other young Patriots qbs?
Nobody expected them to go 10-7.
Yeah it ended rough. The team had holes.
Most teams coming off a dynasty or years of greatness suck really bad after losing their key player(s).
But damn,bruh,Pats lost the f'n GOAT!
And you expect them to keep on winning SBs right away?
Mac Jones gives me hope for the future.
Yeah we got a couple of huge question marks-- the defense,especially the cbs and to of a lesser degree,the lbs.
Also the offensive coaching situation.
But cmon man,last season was not disappointing. 2020 was.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
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C"mon man, of course the dynasty is over.
That's not news. It ended when Brady left.
Of course it's not news, but many posters continue to hang on to the notion that just because Bill is still the HC, anything that happened then is still relevant.
But how in the world can you call last season disappointing?
Belichick stole Mac in the draft w/o giving up any assets,something few,if any,hcs would've accomplished in his position. That allowed him to get Barmore, a potential stud at a huge position of need.
But getting Mac was the biggest coup of any team in that draft.
Mac & Barmore were great picks. Those are the best moves in the post dynasty period. Although, we have to see how both progress this season.
All he does is go out and have one of the greatest seasons by a rookie qb in NFL history. He won the lockerroom quickly and showed great leadership work ethic and accuracy while leading the team to the playoffs. Remind you of any other young Patriots qbs?
Yes, Mac showed good poise and accuracy in the pocket for a rookie, even though it was clear he was being heavily managed by McD. This shouldn't have been a surprise though, since he was wildly regarded as the most NFL QB ready of the rookie class.
Nobody expected them to go 10-7.
Yeah it ended rough. The team had holes.
Most teams coming off a dynasty or years of greatness suck really bad after losing their key player(s).
But damn,bruh,Pats lost the f'n GOAT!
And you expect them to keep on winning SBs right away?
No, I didn't expect them to win a SB, even this year. However, they spent a record (at the time) >$160M in guarantees during FAcy. I think that overall, that amount of spending didn't pan out. A division win would've been nice. It was within grasp.
Mac Jones gives me hope for the future.
Yeah we got a couple of huge question marks-- the defense,especially the cbs and to of a lesser degree,the lbs.
Also the offensive coaching situation.
But cmon man,last season was not disappointing. 2020 was.
Yes, we all have hope for the future, which is 100% riding on Mac's shoulders of being "the guy." If Mac shows this season he's "the guy" and we win the division, even if we don't go deep in the playoffs, I'll consider that a win and the team being well on their way to getting back to the winning ways.

However, if Mac hits a sophomore slump, or the offensive coaches fail to improve the team's efficiency, or the team loses games because of poor D; and they fail to win the Division once again, I will be disappointed again in 2022.

I'm carefully looking at all of the moves Bill has made since 2019 (when he was planning on moving on from Tom), and aside from picking Mac, Barmore, signing Bourne & Judon; there's just not much to be impressed about. There's a lot, I mean a lot of bad moves that outweigh those few positive ones. The results show it. I'm not even talking about SBs since that's unrealistic. Just win the damn division. Maybe this year.
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Surely, you aren't saying that this team was soooo good that they were a couple of plays away from a #1 seed.

We *were* the #1 seed in the AFC after 12 games last year and were #1 in DVOA and the favorite to win the super bowl.

Then we collapsed.
 

mgteich

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We *were* the #1 seed in the AFC after 12 games last year and were #1 in DVOA and the favorite to win the super bowl.

Then we collapsed.
And those injuries were so severe that folks think that we are now not even a playoff team. ???
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
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2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
We *were* the #1 seed in the AFC after 12 games last year and were #1 in DVOA and the favorite to win the super bowl.

Then we collapsed.
Ravens were #1 seed after 12 games and failed to make the playoffs. Pats became #1 seed in Week 13, then we collapsed.
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
Of course it's not news, but many posters continue to hang on to the notion that just because Bill is still the HC, anything that happened then is still relevant.

Mac & Barmore were great picks. Those are the best moves in the post dynasty period. Although, we have to see how both progress this season.

Yes, Mac showed good poise and accuracy in the pocket for a rookie, even though it was clear he was being heavily managed by McD. This shouldn't have been a surprise though, since he was wildly regarded as the most NFL QB ready of the rookie class.

No, I didn't expect them to win a SB, even this year. However, they spent a record (at the time) >$160M in guarantees during FAcy. I think that overall, that amount of spending didn't pan out. A division win would've been nice. It was within grasp.

Yes, we all have hope for the future, which is 100% riding on Mac's shoulders of being "the guy." If Mac shows this season he's "the guy" and we win the division, even if we don't go deep in the playoffs, I'll consider that a win and the team being well on their way to getting back to the winning ways.

However, if Mac hits a sophomore slump, or the offensive coaches fail to improve the team's efficiency, or the team loses games because of poor D; and they fail to win the Division once again, I will be disappointed again in 2022.

I'm carefully looking at all of the moves Bill has made since 2019 (when he was planning on moving on from Tom), and aside from picking Mac, Barmore, signing Bourne & Judon; there's just not much to be impressed about. There's a lot, I mean a lot of bad moves that outweigh those few positive ones. The results show it. I'm not even talking about SBs since that's unrealistic. Just win the damn division. Maybe this year.
It's not realistic to expect them to win the div. in 2022. Buffalo is the favorite to win the SB this year,nevermind just the div.
If they make the playoffs and win a game,
that would be huge. I mostly want to see steady improvement. That tells me they will continue to improve each year and possibly be legit SB contenders in a few years. Buffalo has the strongest roster in the league. They're the favorites over everyone else for a reason
 

Zuma

Special Teams Only Poster
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It's not realistic to expect them to win the div. in 2022. Buffalo is the favorite to win the SB this year,nevermind just the div.
If they make the playoffs and win a game,
that would be huge. I mostly want to see steady improvement. That tells me they will continue to improve each year and possibly be legit SB contenders in a few years. Buffalo has the strongest roster in the league. They're the favorites over everyone else for a reason
I don't think the Bills should be the favorite to win the SB. I'm not saying the Patriots should either...but our OL, RB's, WR's and TE's are more talented then theirs. Yes Jonnu needs to play up to his abilities, Parker needs to stay healthy and so does Wynn and Brown. If those things happen and Mac makes a significant jump in year 2...then on offense we are a better team. Buffalo's D has some names but they are older.

Maybe I am delusional...that's a possibility. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Last edited:

State

In the Starting Line-Up
How about what I don’t want to see? N’Keal Harry. Period. Cut or trade him.

I also don’t want to see Slowjuan Williams as a backup to a backup in the secondary. And that’s likely what he’s going to be.

Cut or trade him.

So they stopped drafting slow, which these two players represent.

Why did it take so long?
 

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