Trade a 2nd For Jimmy Now; This is Not a Long Term Commitment

[davidjc]

They want a 1st rounder:

49ers' asking price for Jimmy Garoppolo is first-round pick

And I'd go for it if I were the pats. Something tells me it will be a good thing. Playoffs at the very least. Pats back in the saddle. That's the idea anyways. Might be a disaster. But that is everything in the NFL.

 

[davidjc]

Doubtful. Likely the settle for a second before or on the draft.

Maybe so. But man maybe I am a weakling but I would pull the trigger on that and get Jimmy before someone else does. Like DENVER ----

 

[Ring 6]

Not trading 3 1s

His injury prone history is what reduces his value to a 2 or 3.

If they weren’t done with Jimmy they wouldn’t have traded 3 1s to replace him.

If he was being paid like a backup that would make sense but at 26 million, no way

But he is not going to be a backup. All signs point to that not being the case. Thus far anyways. The new guy usually redshirts it a season. I get people like to see 1st round draft picks start immediately. But for a QB its usually not the worst thing to do to ease him into it. JG simply is not a back up QB. He is now either a starter or injured. I appreciate that its a unique dilemma but if I am in win now mode I'd go for JG this season unless this new guy is lights out good.

There is no guarantee the QB SF gets will be that good. I don't trust any of the QB's in the draft beyond Lawrence and Wilson and even Wilson might not pan out. Someone is picking a stinker out of the top 4-5 QBs in the draft that is for certain. It happens every year.
[/QUOTE]
How many QBs have teams traded 3 first round picks for and redshirted. None.

Clearly the 49ers trust the QB they traded 3 1s to get regardless of your opinion. They would not trade 3 1s to sit the guy on the bench.

If he starts it will be temporary and short term.

I do not think many teams would commit their starting QB job to Jimmy so I disagree he is a guaranteed starter.

 

[Ring 6]

It seems that you are saying that if we have Jimmy and Cam as backup, we shouldn't bother drafting a 2022-2024 backup to Jimmy.

[/QUOTE]
No saying it would horrible to have those 2 and not draft a QB IN ROUND 1
Relying on Jimmy to be the starter is foolhardy. His replacement should be lined up day 1.

Supposing that we want Jimmy, I don't see the mismanagement, other than the fact that the backup/insurance chosen for $5M wasn't your choice.

Going into the season with an injury waiting to happen and a garbage qb behind him is horribly mismanaging the situation.
Are you saying you think Jimmy is considered a long term solution?

 

[Ross12]

Just a few days ago he was absolutely, positive not available. Now he's available for a 1st. Next week it'll be a 2nd + a player. The week of the draft it'll be a 2nd. Right after they make their selection at #3, they'll accept a 3rd.

The other issue of course is that that's their asking price in trade... if Jimmy will waive his no-trade clause. Only the teams he says are OK can actually trade for him.

 

[Pacific Coast Patriot]

Jimmy is definitely our starting QB.
Jimmy is definitely our bridge QB and won't be traded.
Jimmy is now available but definitely only for a 1st round pick, no way we budge, zip, zilch, zero.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Well I don't think there is anything with JG that dictates he will necessarily have injuries into the future. None of his injuries are out of the ordinary and can be chalked up to a run of bad luck. I just don't have the expectation he will continue to be injured and it's always possible for a QB to adjust his game style to avoid injuries or for the coaches to work on protection and schemes.

There is nothing with JG that indicates any of his past injuries will hinder him significantly. When we say injury prone, you can either mean that in the past tense or in the future tense. I just don't see any reason to necessarily extrapolate that into the future. Many QBs have had missed seasons over their careers. It happens when it happens. With JG it's happened early on and it does not mean it has to continue like that unless you feel certain injuries he has had will create a recurring problem. I do not think this is the case.

The only argument you can make is that JG is not trying to hard to come in off IR. Unlike say Brady who would play injured often. But in any case it would be hard to imagine JG being traded for a second round pick. It's almost silly. The 49ers would be insane to give away their proven starter for anything less. I feel certain they want the new QB they draft to not be forced to play immediately and also to give JG some competition for the starter role.

In any case they can trade JG or the new Rookie after 2021. JG is a good QB when healthy and the idea that he will be perpetually injured for his entire career is a little premature and quite unlikely, unless it was a recurring injury, High ankle sprain? Not too concerning in the long run.

You're saying because of how he got hurt and since he's a pocket passer he theoretically shouldn't be injury prone. Except he constantly misses games. He is often injured and not starting NFL games. If a guy is constantly getting nicked up over 3-4 years, even if he doesn't play dangerous, I would say that guy is often injured and misses a lot of games (JimmyG, Wynn)

 

[Pats1971]

You're saying because of how he got hurt and since he's a pocket passer he theoretically shouldn't be injury prone. Except he constantly misses games. He is often injured and not starting NFL games. If a guy is constantly getting nicked up over 3-4 years, even if he doesn't play dangerous, I would say that guy is often injured and misses a lot of games (JimmyG, Wynn)

He is for sure injury prone. I have seen simple tackles on him and it puts him out of action for games. I am not sure if its his size or what. Some guys just are.

 

[zipster9]

Time to turn the page on JimmyG.....

Hopefully, the future QB of the NE Patriots is in the 2021 NFL draft. Preferably in the 1st round.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

He is for sure injury prone. I have seen simple tackles on him and it puts him out of action for games. I am not sure if its his size or what. Some guys just are.

This is what terrifies me about Wynn. I think we gotta go with Brown at LT. We can't have a LT like Wynn who is out 70% of the time and have to reshuffle the whole OLine every time.

 

[mgteich]

No saying it would horrible to have those 2 and not draft a QB IN ROUND 1
Relying on Jimmy to be the starter is foolhardy. His replacement should be lined up day 1.
[/QUOTE]
I prefer Jimmy as a bridge, and a 1st rounder for next year.

That being said, it isn't "mismanagement" to disagree and consider Jimmy a long term solution.

.

 

[Ring 6]

No saying it would horrible to have those 2 and not draft a QB IN ROUND 1
Relying on Jimmy to be the starter is foolhardy. His replacement should be lined up day 1.

I prefer Jimmy as a bridge, and a 1st rounder for next year.

That being said, it isn't "mismanagement" to disagree and consider Jimmy a long term solution.

.
[/QUOTE]
Coming out of 70 mill in cap space and the #15 pick with an injury prone garopolo and newton behind him is definitely mismanagement of fixing the biggest problem the team had IMO.

 

[Lansdowne]

I’m not really a fan of giving up a first for Jimmy. Especially not the 15th overall, that’s not happening.

But what if it was something like:

San Francisco receives:

New England 2022 1st round pick
New England 2021 4th round pick (121 overall)
Cam Newton

New England receives:

San Francisco 2021 2nd round pick (43 overall)
San Francisco 2022 5th round pick
Jimmy Garoppolo

Niners get their first rounder, upgrading picks, get a cost-effective bridge in Cam, and rid themselves of Jimmy’s contract. Pats get their man without having to waste any more time.

The alternative is playing the waiting game. Maybe the Niners just cut Jimmy and be done with it. Maybe they actually hold him and try to trade him next year. If they’re fine with his 2021 salary then they can afford to wait. I think Jimmy presents the best opportunity to upgrade over Cam this season (since we don’t know what rookie the Pats may end up getting in the draft, or if BB would even trust a rookie this year).

This kind of deal is unlikely to happen, but IF it did, would you be cool with it? Assuming of course Jimmy would restructure for more years to be more cap friendly in the short term.

 

[Respectful49erFan]

Hello, been checking out this thread, and thought it might help to give things from a 49er perspective. It is to the 49ers advantage to keep JG this year and play him. 49ers want to contend for a Super Bowl, which is hard to do with a rookie. The 49ers are also investing a lot of draft capital into a single player, they can't afford for it to fail. The best thing for a rookie QB is to sit a year and learn behind a vet (and Kyle's offense is more complicated than most).

I even started a poll on a 49er forum. 50% wouldn't trade him for any price, 20% would trade him for a first, and another 30% would trade him for a second or better. Of course, fans aren't management. I suspect that 49er brass would trade him for a first despite the advantages of keeping him based on them saying a trade was possible.

Biggest issue for trading JG (other than his no trade clause) is his salary. He is being paid like he is one of the best QB in the league, but his play/health history doesn't match up to it. If he is cut, no one will pay him 25 million a year. I expect JG will play for the 49ers for a year, and either prove he is worth his salary and be traded, or fail and get cut. So if you can wait a year, you might get him for free.

A lot of the conversation lately is covered in the above. The question was asked if 49er fans would spend a first pick to get JG. No, we wouldn't. Of course, if you are moving away from a player, you probably wouldn't pay anything for them. But thinking objectively, it is borderline whether JG is worth a first round pick. Deshaun Watson, a bona-fide super star QB was viewed as worth 3 first round picks. You can argue that a decent quarterback is worth a first round pick, but with JG's injury history, I can also see him being valued as a 2nd round pick. It wouldn't make sense to value him at less than a 2nd round pick, though. You don't pay 25 million a year for a mediocre QB. If he is mediocre, he is cut and another team will sign him to a much lower contract. Anyway, even though JG probably isn't worth a first round pick, that is what 49er management is asking, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO TRADE HIM. They want him to play this year to maximize their chances to going to this year's SB, AND they want the rookie to sit a year to absorb the playbook.

 

[Respectful49erFan]

I’m not really a fan of giving up a first for Jimmy. Especially not the 15th overall, that’s not happening.

But what if it was something like:

San Francisco receives:

New England 2022 1st round pick
New England 2021 4th round pick (121 overall)
Cam Newton

New England receives:

San Francisco 2021 2nd round pick (43 overall)
San Francisco 2022 5th round pick
Jimmy Garoppolo

Niners get their first rounder, upgrading picks, get a cost-effective bridge in Cam, and rid themselves of Jimmy’s contract. Pats get their man without having to waste any more time.

The alternative is playing the waiting game. Maybe the Niners just cut Jimmy and be done with it. Maybe they actually hold him and try to trade him next year. If they’re fine with his 2021 salary then they can afford to wait. I think Jimmy presents the best opportunity to upgrade over Cam this season (since we don’t know what rookie the Pats may end up getting in the draft, or if BB would even trust a rookie this year).

This kind of deal is unlikely to happen, but IF it did, would you be cool with it? Assuming of course Jimmy would restructure for more years to be more cap friendly in the short term.

I think 49ers would be open to a future year first to replace one of the lost first round picks that they traded. I am not so sure about giving up a future 2nd, though. I don't think 49ers would value Cam Newton. The perception is that their system is very complicated and it takes a QB a while to learn the system. They are probably better off having Josh Rosen play a year, or possibly having the rookie QB start over that.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Comparing Jimmy G to Shanahan destroying RG3's career is a little absurd. RG3 had no right being on the field for the playoff game with his knee being held together by hopes and prayers.

RG3 was playing on sprained ligaments the team doc was reportedly "worried sick over reinjuring," then completely tore his lcl and acl. He had no right being on the field. Example 1A in why players can't trust coaches or team docs, and why coaches and team docs need to protect players from themselves.

Playing through a bad non-throwing shoulder? No big deal (cough, Jimmy, cough). Playing through a destabilized knee as a rookie, mobile qb? No wonder Shannie bailed from the league after that. If I'm a player, I would never trust a single thing out of his, nor any team doc's mouth. You'd have to be borderline brain dead to come to any other conclusion.

Don’t know whats absurd about the comparison? They both blew their knee out and you mention a throwing shoulder? JG became a lot less mobile as did RG3 after the injuries.

 

[davidjc]

Just a few days ago he was absolutely, positive not available. Now he's available for a 1st. Next week it'll be a 2nd + a player. The week of the draft it'll be a 2nd. Right after they make their selection at #3, they'll accept a 3rd.

The other issue of course is that that's their asking price in trade... if Jimmy will waive his no-trade clause. Only the teams he says are OK can actually trade for him.

I don't know man. He has some value to them as well. I think they will get a 1st rounder for him from someone. Half the 1st round picks are busts every year. If I needed a QB and all I had to do was pick up the phone and hand over my 1st round pick which may or may not pan out for me to acquire JG I'd do it. But I am more optimistic on JG than others.

 

[davidjc]

You're saying because of how he got hurt and since he's a pocket passer he theoretically shouldn't be injury prone. Except he constantly misses games. He is often injured and not starting NFL games. If a guy is constantly getting nicked up over 3-4 years, even if he doesn't play dangerous, I would say that guy is often injured and misses a lot of games (JimmyG, Wynn)

Then why do the Pats need him? I can never see the logic. This guy is trash! Always injured!....how much you want for him?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Then why do the Pats need him? I can never see the logic. This guy is trash! Always injured!....how much you want for him?

Not a lot is the answer. He's inury prone. I don't see other teams wanting to offer a lot for him in a trade, too much uncertainty. I would go for a 3rd, a 2nd max. His best destination is back in NE if the price is right.

.

 

[kennyb]

I don't think glassoporo is that good. Kind of a lousy bum. It is ironic they have all this new pass catching talent and no one to throw the ball.

There are other excellent thread on QB, but I wanted to focus on a single issue.

WE HAVE A NEED FOR A QB FOR 2021!!!
How can it NOT be worth a 2nd to be able to have an excellent team in 2021.
Jimmy would be paid $26M, $25M AAV over 5 years ($25M bonus plus $1M salary) for a $6M cap hit . Surely the parties can work this out.
We would not be committed to Jimmy for 2022 or thereafter; we could trade him or cut him.

THIS NEED NOT AFFECT ANY DECISIONMAKING FOR THE DRAFT
If we don't believe that Jimmy is a LT answer, we would still do our best to trade up for a QB (or stay or trade down, as you would before the trade).
BTW, this way Lance becomes an even a better prospect, since he may not be ready to start early in 2021.