Practice / Playoff Roster Discussion Only!!!

[Deus Irae]

I'm still trying to figure out what MM brings to the table, after all this missed time, that makes him worth kicking another WR off the roster at this point in the season.

 

[Mack Herron]

I'm still trying to figure out what MM brings to the table, after all this missed time, that makes him worth kicking another WR off the roster at this point in the season.

He has functioned in this system at a high level. Britt and Dorsett have not had a season or an off season so reasonably have more to learn. Both have considerable up side, and will likely get an off season to develop. If MM is activated, which has to be a strong possibility or else why designate him, I doubt they release a WR. Either a player goes to IR (e.g., Gillislee) or an end of roster release (Grissom) is more likely in my view.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

how long do the patriots have to activate mitchell? I would imagine they will this week if hes good to go?

Even stranger, was Vince Valentine abducted by aliens? About 2 months ago, a report was about each going to meetings, each being closer to returning, and poof, nothing has happened.

Mitchell has at least been practicing but for whatever reason, they have not moved Valentine to season ending IR. Hmm. is it possible to have not played all year and then be effective out of nowhere? I highly doubt it.

It's been a super strange year with a lot of these injuries and it happened right out of the gate in preseason, obviously starting with Edelman.

Since 2009, for whatever the reason, starting with the Welker ACL injury in Week 17 that year, in the odd seasons ('09, '11, '13, '15, '17), the Pats were completely derailed by injuries to very key players.

It happened this year, too, including a somewhat predictable Nink retirement, but the depth BB has built in here, in various ways, has been incredible. This team is more like a 10-6 or 9-7 kind of team somewhere else in the NFL. But, not here.

I find it very funny how great a GM BB is, but no one ever says it. They just say he's a great coach, the greatest ever. Well, he's the best GM ever because he has the strongest resume of any Cap Era GM.

 

[Deus Irae]

He has functioned in this system at a high level. Britt and Dorsett have not had a season or an off season so reasonably have more to learn. Both have considerable up side, and will likely get an off season to develop. If MM is activated, which has to be a strong possibility or else why designate him, I doubt they release a WR. Either a player goes to IR (e.g., Gillislee) or an end of roster release (Grissom) is more likely in my view.

Activating MM if Hogan has to go on IR makes a lot of sense. Carrying all those WRs and cutting someone else makes a lot less sense, unless Britt looks completely useless but they really want him around for next year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm still trying to figure out what MM brings to the table, after all this missed time, that makes him worth kicking another WR off the roster at this point in the season.

Thats my question. After missing the entire year what can he bring to the table?

We know what he can do when he is healthy. If he is healthy he passes Britt.

If he is close to that and he and Tom can get on the same page, I think its huge lift for the intermediate game.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

In the second half of the season, Burkhead has been the most productive receiver in the short-range (<10yds), followed by Lewis, while White was that guy in the first half of the season. All are real run-pass threats and a critical component of this season's offense.

Cooks and Gronk have been extremely productive in deep-range receiving (>15 yds), with an occasional supplement from Dorsett.

But Amendola has been virtually the only viable mid-range (10-15 yds) tgt for the last half of the season since Hogan was injured (Hogan had been running more mid-range routes in the first half). Last season, as with most seasons, the mid-range dimension of the passing attack was dominant with Edelman, Mitchell and Bennett supplemented by Amendola. This season, there's been a hole in the middle of the passing attack with the vast majority of throws going short or deep.

I seems to me that getting Hogan and Mitchell back, if possible, would help restore quite a bit of that mid-range dimension, allow the passing attack to be much more balanced and help sustain drives.

That would be the logical assessment and the main reason why we'd be back in a Super Bowl.

If the Pats beat Tenn and get stuck with Jax, they'll need everything possible to beat that D.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thats my question. After missing the entire year what can he bring to the table?

We know what he can do when he is healthy. If he is healthy he passes Britt.

If he is close to that and he and Tom can get on the same page, I think its huge lift for the intermediate game.

But what gets me is that, if all WRs, TEs and RBs are healthy

Cooks/Hogan/Dorsett/Gronk - Deep threats
Hogan/Amendola/Cooks/Gronk - Middle threats
Amendola/Hogan/Burkhead/White/Lewis - Short threats


So Britt and MM would both be luxuries, not essentials. And that's without counting the backup TEs, at all. I'm missing something, and it's probably obvious, but nothing's making me say "Ah ha! That's it.".

 

[maineman209]

I don't think this is correct. He began practicing on Wednesday, 12/27, after not doing so since 9/21, soon after he was placed on IR.

I don't think Mitchell has actually practiced since O'Schnikerdoodle took out his knee in the 2nd pre-season game against Houston on August 19th. Last two weeks of Camp + 16 weeks of the regular season.

 

[luuked]

So Britt and MM would both be luxuries, not essentials. And that's without counting the backup TEs, at all. I'm missing something, and it's probably obvious, but nothing's making me say "Ah ha! That's it.".

I think that designating him to return was more about VV not even being close to a return and the coaching staff just keeping MM around just in case someone else gets dinged up. We essentially have him for free in those 3 weeks as he has a roster exemption. And realistically he needed to have a couple of weeks of practice if he were to be activated to be anywhere close to match shape.

 

[RobertWeathers]

But what gets me is that, if all WRs, TEs and RBs are healthy

Cooks/Hogan/Dorsett/Gronk - Deep threats
Hogan/Amendola/Cooks/Gronk - Middle threats
Amendola/Hogan/Burkhead/White/Lewis - Short threats


So Britt and MM would both be luxuries, not essentials. And that's without counting the backup TEs, at all. I'm missing something, and it's probably obvious, but nothing's making me say "Ah ha! That's it.".

If it were me and MM is 100% heathy and in 2016 SB form with TB12 i'd ditch Dorsett.

Thats the ah ha for me

 

[Deus Irae]

I think that designating him to return was more about VV not even being close to a return and the coaching staff just keeping MM around just in case someone else gets dinged up. We essentially have him for free in those 3 weeks as he has a roster exemption. And realistically he needed to have a couple of weeks of practice if he were to be activated to be anywhere close to match shape.

That's been my take, too. I'm looking at him as an emergency replacement if someone gets dinged before the 21 days are up. Others, though, seem to be looking at him as someone who's going to be activated even if everyone is healthy, and that's where I struggle to see the reasoning.

 

[Deus Irae]

If it were me and MM is 100% heathy and in 2016 SB form with TB12 i'd ditch Dorsett.

Thats the ah ha for me

Ok, I accept that such a move would work for you, but it doesn't really make sense to me, with Dorsett being under contract for next year and seeming to show signs of being able to function in the offense. Maybe the staff doesn't think it's seen enough, but Dorsett's been blocking well enough, and getting open enough, that people have noticed. With Edelman being an aging bounce-back player, and Amendola being another year older, I personally think the team would be well served to be heading into next year with

Amendola
Edelman
Hogan
Cooks
Mitchell
Britt
Dorsett
Legit slot WR prospect

as its core WR competition group.

 

[ashley]

Mike Reiss‏Verified account @MikeReiss 1h1 hour ago
Asked about Malcolm Mitchell’s progress in his return to practice, Bill Belichick said he still has a lot of ground to make up. “Seen him out there trying to get back into practice and do the things he’s asked to do,” Belichick said.

I'm not trying to read too much into what Bill is saying, but my guess would be that MM isn't going to be active this week.
At this point, I think MM is a luxury.

A good article I was reading this morning said:


Our offense ranks 1st in total yards,
2nd in scoring,
2nd in passing
10th in rushing.

And we've only had Burkhead and Hogan on the field together for full games TWICE this year and MM none. I'd say we should be ok, without MM this week.

 

[maineman209]

Even stranger, was Vince Valentine abducted by aliens? About 2 months ago, a report was about each going to meetings, each being closer to returning, and poof, nothing has happened.

Mitchell has at least been practicing but for whatever reason, they have not moved Valentine to season ending IR. Hmm. is it possible to have not played all year and then be effective out of nowhere? I highly doubt it.

It's been a super strange year with a lot of these injuries and it happened right out of the gate in preseason, obviously starting with Edelman.

Since 2009, for whatever the reason, starting with the Welker ACL injury in Week 17 that year, in the odd seasons ('09, '11, '13, '15, '17), the Pats were completely derailed by injuries to very key players.

It happened this year, too, including a somewhat predictable Nink retirement, but the depth BB has built in here, in various ways, has been incredible. This team is more like a 10-6 or 9-7 kind of team somewhere else in the NFL. But, not here.

I find it very funny how great a GM BB is, but no one ever says it. They just say he's a great coach, the greatest ever. Well, he's the best GM ever because he has the strongest resume of any Cap Era GM.

The "reports" about both Valentine's and Mitchell's readiness to begin practicing were always mixed. Players with eligibility to return (NFI, PUP, IR-DtR) all typically attend meetings, so that's not much of an indicator of anything.

One Mitchell was designated for the one remaining DtR spot, Valentine automatically reverted to season-ending IR. In any case, it's usually easier to replace a reserve DT with a guy off the street than it is to replace a WR in the Pats offense - and the Pats did that with RJF.

Whether or not Mitchell is healthy enough to contribute in any capacity remains to be seen.

A good portion of BB's "genius" as GM is in having Caserio and in maintaining a fully-staffed, in-house scouting department - which many other teams do not. About 75% of the teams outsource the bulk of their scouting to one of the large scouting co-ops that run the Combine.

 

[luuked]

Given that snaps at practice are a limited resource and at a premium I wonder what the better strategy is. Using those snaps to determine how far away MM still is or using them on a player like Britt so he gets some live action that helps more to catch up than just studying the playbook.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The "reports" about both Valentine's and Mitchell's readiness to begin practicing were always mixed. Players with eligibility to return (NFI, PUP, IR-DtR) all typically attend meetings, so that's not much of an indicator of anything.

One Mitchell was designated for the one remaining DtR spot, Valentine automatically reverted to season-ending IR. In any case, it's usually easier to replace a reserve DT with a guy off the street than it is to replace a WR in the Pats offense - and the Pats did that with RJF.

Whether or not Mitchell is healthy enough to contribute in any capacity remains to be seen.

A good portion of BB's "genius" as GM is in having Caserio and in maintaining a fully-staffed, in-house scouting department - which many other teams do not. About 75% of the teams outsource the bulk of their scouting to one of the large scouting co-ops that run the Combine.

Agree with all, and yes, I know once Mitchell started, Valentine was done because McClellin took up the other spot.

Again, the fact this team is 13-3 is actually incredible considering how many injuries and moving parts this team has had since Day 1 of this season.

How BB/Caserio don't end up in the top 3 for Exec of the Year, is insane. I know why he doesn't get nominated, but it's still incredibly petty.

As for in-house infrastructure, yes, I know BB sets it up a bit different than other teams and Floyd Reese did a nice job helping groom Caserio a bit as well.

BB's PS alone and how he pays very well, is also brilliant. He treats it like an in-house mini farm system.

How anyone can complain about this guy's GM work, I have no idea.

 

[maineman209]

That would be the logical assessment and the main reason why we'd be back in a Super Bowl.

If the Pats beat Tenn and get stuck with Jax, they'll need everything possible to beat that D.

I wasn't particularly impressed with the JAX defense versus the Bills. It didn't appear to be significantly better than the Pat defense was - twice - facing Taylor, McCoy & Co.

And the JAX offense looked awful against the Bills defense.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Would lean on resting burkhead this week, but his return would be huge.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ok, I accept that such a move would work for you, but it doesn't really make sense to me, with Dorsett being under contract for next year and seeming to show signs of being able to function in the offense. Maybe the staff doesn't think it's seen enough, but Dorsett's been blocking well enough, and getting open enough, that people have noticed. With Edelman being an aging bounce-back player, and Amendola being another year older, I personally think the team would be well served to be heading into next year with

Amendola
Edelman
Hogan
Cooks
Mitchell
Britt
Dorsett
Legit slot WR prospect

as its core WR competition group.

Hes been fine for WR4 and keeping him would not be the worst decision in the world but I don't think they are overly impressed with him. in 2018 the owe him a $450k roster bonus and $1m next year. Not a lot of money but I bet they will have the discussion about releasing him at some point..not saying they will.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wasn't particularly impressed with the JAX defense versus the Bills. It didn't appear to be significantly better than the Pat defense was - twice - facing Taylor, McCoy & Co.

And the JAX offense looked awful against the Bills defense.

Did you not watch the games?