PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Patricia Vs Judge For Play Calling Duties?


I literally never said they were completely changing the playbook in terms of scheme, sorry you misread that. Everything I’ve argued was in terms of terminology. I’m assuming this is what you’re referring to?

“The entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology is completely changed in an off season”

Which part of this is saying the playbook is changing? The problem is you can’t call somebody a liar when they have the receipts to pull from.
The ENTIRE playbook is streamlined and the terminology is COMPLETELY changed (you left out that you said from a system they used for 20 years) is not supported by what anyone has said or even implied and absolutely suggests they are throwing out the system and starting over.
Please show me where anyone has said the playbook much less the ENTIRE playbook has been streamlined or the terminology COMPLETELY changed.

This is the exact specific disagreement we have you have turn comments consistent with what happens every year into claim of wholesale change.
The “receipts” prove you wrong.
 
The ENTIRE playbook is streamlined and the terminology is COMPLETELY changed (you left out that you said from a system they used for 20 years) is not supported by what anyone has said or even implied and absolutely suggests they are throwing out the system and starting over.
Please show me where anyone has said the playbook much less the ENTIRE playbook has been streamlined or the terminology COMPLETELY changed.

This is the exact specific disagreement we have you have turn comments consistent with what happens every year into claim of wholesale change.
The “receipts” prove you wrong.

Again, nothing is that quote is claiming the structure of the playbook is changing. Which you’ve accused me of and you called me a liar in the process. That quote is about the terminology, which I’ve explained to you. That quote proves me correct not you. I’ve agreed with you every time you’ve said portions of the playbook are altered every year schematically to fit personnel, etc.

Your argument is generic speak, you’re arguing to argue. “Things change every year” in which you’ll provide no specific evidence to what you’re referring to. I have. That’s the end all be all. The terminology is being streamlined and simplified because of the lack of experience to those running it. You can’t argue against that. You can claim it’s happened in the past and I’ll ask you for evidence to support that and you won’t provide any

Below is what you projected me saying, and called me a liar about. I’ve never come close to saying this. This is a losing battle for you. Explain to me when I said this much? I’ll wait
“Your point, the changes are drastic and they are throwing out 20 years of a system and totally overhauling it. “
 
Last edited:
Again, nothing is that quote is claiming the structure of the playbook is changing. Which you’ve accused me of and you called me a liar in the process. That quote is about the terminology, which I’ve explained to you. That quote proves me correct not you. I’ve agreed with you every time you’ve said portions of the playbook are altered every year schematically to fit personnel, etc.

Your argument is generic speak, you’re arguing to argue. “Things change every year” in which you’ll provide no specific evidence to what you’re referring to. I have. That’s the end all be all. The terminology is being streamlined and simplified because of the lack of experience to those running it. You can’t argue against that. You can claim it’s happened in the past and I’ll ask you for evidence to support that and you won’t provide any

Below is what you projected me saying, and called me a liar about. I’ve never come close to saying this. This is a losing battle for you. Explain to me when I said this much? I’ll wait
“Your point, the changes are drastic and they are throwing out 20 years of a system and totally overhauling it. “
What do you streamlining terminology means?
Let’s start there, because you refuse to answer that and keep avoiding the real issue.
 
This thread....

black hole GIF
 
What do you streamlining terminology means?
Let’s start there, because you refuse to answer that and keep avoiding the real issue.

This is evidence you don’t read my posts, go back and read and you’ll find the answer

Also, can you provide where I said they were throwing away a 20 year old playbook and starting from scratch? Or did you lie about that?
 
This is evidence you don’t read my posts, go back and read and you’ll find the answer

Also, can you provide where I said they were throwing away a 20 year old playbook and starting from scratch? Or did you lie about that?
You have not answered and I have asked it numerous times.

20 years the part you cut off from the quote where they were ENTIRELY and COMPLETELY changing
 
You have not answered and I have asked it numerous times.

20 years the part you cut off from the quote where they were ENTIRELY and COMPLETELY changing

Yes I have answered it, go back and read. And you keep highlighting that quote and it ends with terminology. Find me the quote where I said they were throwing away the playbook and starting over. Keep trying
 
There’s no upside to arguing with Andy. It’s the same outcome every single time.
Right. I am correct and people like you resort to personal attacks.
 
Yes I have answered it, go back and read. And you keep highlighting that quote and it ends with terminology. Find me the quote where I said they were throwing away the playbook and starting over. Keep trying
You did not directly answer that question and are still avoiding it.


This is how it started. I posted (in response to the patriots sure read passsung game being too complex)

Ocho cinco was a dummy who succeeded in a system that he didn’t have to think. A system for dummies isn’t better than a system that utilizes the players intelligence to an advantage.

The system has worked fine. It has been extraordinarily effective. Dumbing it down would have made it less effective.
And you said that’s what they are doing now.

Ever since has been you backing off of that with semantics and arguing with me because I said they make changes every year and this year is like every other. Which by the way leads to Belichicks quote:

"Well, we've had a lot of changes offensively in the last couple years, and it's a good time to streamline things," he said Tuesday at the start of the Patriots' mandatory minicamp. "We did that defensively a couple years ago. We feel like it's a good time to do it offensively. There's an element of that every year."
 
You did not directly answer that question and are still avoiding it.


This is how it started. I posted (in response to the patriots sure read passsung game being too complex)


And you said that’s what they are doing now.

Ever since has been you backing off of that with semantics and arguing with me because I said they make changes every year and this year is like every other. Which by the way leads to Belichicks quote:

"Well, we've had a lot of changes offensively in the last couple years, and it's a good time to streamline things," he said Tuesday at the start of the Patriots' mandatory minicamp. "We did that defensively a couple years ago. We feel like it's a good time to do it offensively. There's an element of that every year."

The players are saying they are dumbing down the playbook, they’re streamlining the terminology, they’re changing the verbiage…belichick confirmed, also said THIS is a good year to do it. Not last year or the years before. Not all changes are the same and you know that, that’s why you’re making generic statements. Again, find me examples of the team making a similar change to this in the past if it happens every year.

Also I have directly answered it, you don’t want to find my quote, that’s not my problem. You tried to insinuate what my argument was, called me a liar in the process. You’ve been caught in a web a backtracking and lying. Again, find me the quote where I said the offense was thrown and started from scratch? I am still waiting for that. Our discussion was very simple, your backpedaling has caused this to become what it has

At no point did I say the below, which is why you ignore it. This is where the conversation went off the rails. If you want to continue this, we will need to restart from the top as this is now a mess

“Your point, the changes are drastic and they are throwing out 20 years of a system and totally overhauling it. “
 
Last edited:
The players are saying they are dumbing down the playbook, they’re streamlining the terminology, they’re changing the verbiage…belichick confirmed, also said THIS is a good year to do it. Not last year or the years before. Not all changes are the same and you know that, that’s why you’re making generic statements. Again, find me examples of the team making a similar change to this in the past

Also I have directly answered it, you don’t want to find my quote, that’s not my problem. You tried to insinuate what my argument was, called me a liar in the process. You’ve been caught in a web a backtracking and lying. Again, find me the quote where I said the offense was thrown and started from scratch? I am still waiting for that. Our discussion was very simple, your backpedaling has caused this to become what it has

At no point did I say the below, which is why you ignore it

“Your point, the changes are drastic and they are throwing out 20 years of a system and totally overhauling it. “
So you won’t answer. Gotcha. I understand why.
I’ve shown your quotes.
I have not backpedaled on anything I have said the same thing all along, you however keep denying you said what you said.

Belichick said what I quoted which matches my position to a tee.

There have been 2 days of practice and they haven’t begun to install the offense. Vague statements at this stage are meaningless.

If you honestly think Bill Belichicks plan is to dumb down his offense there is no need for us to discuss anything.

You refuse to define what you think streamlining means, so there really is no point having a discussion until you decide to be forthright.
 
So you won’t answer. Gotcha. I understand why.
I’ve shown your quotes.
I have not backpedaled on anything I have said the same thing all along, you however keep denying you said what you said.
You told me to go back and find quotes earlier, im telling you to do the same. You can choose laziness if youd like. But I have answered it as its pretty simple to answer
Belichick said what I quoted which matches my position to a tee.
He said this would be a good time to streamline the offense, as opposed to when? I also have never disagreed things change year to year. This year seems different according to EVERYBODY covering the team and players. Again you wont provide evidence from years past saying this is the same
There have been 2 days of practice and they haven’t begun to install the offense. Vague statements at this stage are meaningless.

If you honestly think Bill Belichicks plan is to dumb down his offense there is no need for us to discuss anything.
This is a laughable statement, as players have confirmed this. Not sure why you feel the need argue otherwise. Other than you defending the statement saying itd be stupid to simplify the offense. You keep uttering 2 days like they gave them a fake playbook and messaging.
You refuse to define what you think streamlining means, so there really is no point having a discussion until you decide to be forthright.
For somebody who is ok with discussing for multiple pages. The laziness to say this is off the charts. You can quit anytime youd like if its not worth having
 
Last edited:
You told me to go back and find quotes earlier, im telling you to do the same. You can choose laziness if youd like. But I have answered it as its pretty simple to answer

He said this would be a good time to streamline the offense, as opposed to when? I also have never disagreed things change year to year. This year seems different according to EVERYBODY covering the team and players. Again you wont provide evidence from years past saying this is the same

This is a laughable statement, as players have confirmed this. Not sure why you feel the need argue otherwise. Other than you defending the statement saying itd be stupid to simplify the offense. You keep uttering 2 days like they gave them a fake playbook and messaging.

For somebody who is ok with discussing for multiple pages. The laziness to say this is off the charts. You can quit anytime youd like if its not worth having
I am sorry that you do not understand how this works and are unwilling to listen to someone who does.
 
I am sorry that you do not understand how this works and are unwilling to listen to someone who does.
Wow what a statement. You've backed yourself into such a corner that you've just lied to try and muck up the discussion. The funniest part is that you are willing to converse for 5 pages, but are too lazy to go back and read prior posts.

Below will sum up this entire argument

"A system for dummies isn’t better than a system that utilizes the players intelligence to an advantage.
The system has worked fine. It has been extraordinarily effective. Dumbing it down would have made it less effective."--Ring 6

5 year veteran, first round pick Isaiah Wynn last week.


"I feel like they took a little but of thinking for us, you know what I'm saying? They kind of dumbed it down so everybody could play faster."

Which you then dismissed because of your ego. Its ok though, youre a nobody just like the rest of us
 
Last edited:
Wow what a statement. You've backed yourself into such a corner that you've just lied to try and muck up the discussion. The funniest part is that you are willing to converse for 5 pages, but are too lazy to go back and read prior posts.

Below will sum up this entire argument

"A system for dummies isn’t better than a system that utilizes the players intelligence to an advantage.
The system has worked fine. It has been extraordinarily effective. Dumbing it down would have made it less effective."--Ring 6

5 year veteran, first round pick Isaiah Wynn last week.


"I feel like they took a little but of thinking for us, you know what I'm saying? They kind of dumbed it down so everybody could play faster."

Which you then dismissed because of your ego. Its ok though, youre a nobody just like the rest of us
So you don’t understand.

1) The Patriots have run the same offense since Belichick arrived
2) Every year they make changes.
3) There is a deep and diverse playbook of which parts are used for scheme and gene plan week to week and season to season.
4) As it grows each year, they will from time to time trim it back.
5) This analysis is done in the off-season. The last 2 off seasons this was done in anticipation of Legarm Newton begin the QB.
6) This year it is being done with Mac Jones engrained and no qb on the roster who can’t their and has to run a lot. So naturally there is more than typical change.
7) An offensive playbook contains many concepts, packages and schemes. Football teams INSTALL their offenses completely over the course of training camp.
8) It is not uncommon to start (especially for Belichick) with things you did less of last year and may or may not do more of this year. A common practice is to install more unique lesser used stuff early and then bring it back at times you will use it. But focus the meat of camp on the schemes you will use most often.
9) So what you do in the first 2 days has little meaningful causation to what you will do in the season.
10) Streamlining means eliminating what is no longer necessary. It doesn’t mean dumbing down. It doesn’t mean being less complicated. It doesn’t mean changing the offense.
11) Why now? The last 2 off seasons were Newton centric so there is more to eliminate now. McDaniels put his imprint on the offense for 10 years. Belichick gave him a lot of freedom to do things he liked. He is fine so belichick is likely scrapping pieces that he reviewed and didn’t like going forward.


You are well aware that the discussion started with the idea the passing game is too complex and receivers fail, and my post you responded to was that it would be stupid to turn a successful site read passing game into a rudimentary one for the sake of ocho cinco. So your comments that followed were arguing the idea that basic tenants of the offense such as that are being changed.

Oh and as far as Wynn, what he is exposed to in the first 2 days of practice is his blocking assignments. Given they are removing the qb run schemes, and mostly eliminating the FB position there is little doubt that there will be some level of simplification of the decision making of an OT. Given that we know they have worked more heavily on the zone blocking schemes first, if you know anything about OL play you would realize that a zone block call is “dumbed down” for an OL because it removes a lot of decision making of who your assignment is based upon alignment. If you really think Wynn is talking about the complexity of play design, the receivers responsibilities in the passing game, or the depth of the packages they will install and draw from, I don’t know what to tell you.
 
Last edited:


Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Back
Top