Patricia Vs Judge For Play Calling Duties?

[All3Phases]

So you don’t understand.

1) The Patriots have run the same offense since Belichick arrived
2) Every year they make changes.
3) There is a deep and diverse playbook of which parts are used for scheme and gene plan week to week and season to season.
4) As it grows each year, they will from time to time trim it back.
5) This analysis is done in the off-season. The last 2 off seasons this was done in anticipation of Legarm Newton begin the QB.
6) This year it is being done with Mac Jones engrained and no qb on the roster who can’t their and has to run a lot. So naturally there is more than typical change.
7) An offensive playbook contains many concepts, packages and schemes. Football teams INSTALL their offenses completely over the course of training camp.
8) It is not uncommon to start (especially for Belichick) with things you did less of last year and may or may not do more of this year. A common practice is to install more unique lesser used stuff early and then bring it back at times you will use it. But focus the meat of camp on the schemes you will use most often.
9) So what you do in the first 2 days has little meaningful causation to what you will do in the season.
10) Streamlining means eliminating what is no longer necessary. It doesn’t mean dumbing down. It doesn’t mean being less complicated. It doesn’t mean changing the offense.
11) Why now? The last 2 off seasons were Newton centric so there is more to eliminate now. McDaniels put his imprint on the offense for 10 years. Belichick gave him a lot of freedom to do things he liked. He is fine so belichick is likely scrapping pieces that he reviewed and didn’t like going forward.


You are well aware that the discussion started with the idea the passing game is too complex and receivers fail, and my post you responded to was that it would be stupid to turn a successful site read passing game into a rudimentary one for the sake of ocho cinco. So your comments that followed were arguing the idea that basic tenants of the offense such as that are being changed.

Oh and as far as Wynn, what he is exposed to in the first 2 days of practice is his blocking assignments. Given they are removing the qb run schemes, and mostly eliminating the FB position there is little doubt that there will be some level of simplification of the decision making of an OT. Given that we know they have worked more heavily on the zone blocking schemes first, if you know anything about OL play you would realize that a zone block call is “dumbed down” for an OL because it removes a lot of decision making of who your assignment is based upon alignment. If you really think Wynn is talking about the complexity of play design, the receivers responsibilities in the passing game, or the depth of the packages they will install and draw from, I don’t know what to tell you.

Your definition of streamlining the offense is an opinion, and you love stating it as if it’s a fact. What facts we do know, is two players have commented on the terminology being new, one calling it dumbing it down. Mac has confirmed that this is to make decisions quicker and play faster which aligns with what Wynn has said. Count -1WR, 1 OL, 1 QB.

It’s funny you now are confirming they’re simplifying the blocking assignments but no other position? Even though a receiver and quarterback have touched on it?

You can continue to repeat that things change every year and this is more of the same, but will continue to provide ZERO evidence if this much change happening to the offense in an offseason. Do you think you’ll ever do so? Until then your generic speak is simply mindless commentary with no backing

 

[Ring 6]

Your definition of streamlining the offense is an opinion, and you love stating it as if it’s a fact. What facts we do know, is two players have commented on the terminology being new, one calling it dumbing it down. Mac has confirmed that this is to make decisions quicker and play faster which aligns with what Wynn has said. Count -1WR, 1 OL, 1 QB.

It’s funny you now are confirming they’re simplifying the blocking assignments but no other position? Even though a receiver and quarterback have touched on it?

You can continue to repeat that things change every year and this is more of the same, but will continue to provide ZERO evidence if this much change happening to the offense in an offseason. Do you think you’ll ever do so? Until then your generic speak is simply mindless commentary with no backing

Streamlining has a definition. Words have meaning, you seem to not understand that.

Wrong, Wynn was not saying the terminology was dumbed down he said he is thinking less and playing faster, which is exactly how an OL feels when practicing zone schemes.
I think you made up the Jones comment but of course coaches should be coaching a second year QB to play faster.

I did not by any means “confirm” the simplified blocking assignments. This is where I think you just don’t understand. They have always run both man and zone run blocking plays, in varying proportions. An OL blocks to an area and blocks whoever shows in zone and must look at the defense and figure out which player hid assignment is in man. Since they have focused more on zone plays so far it would seem simpler, but the blocking schemes are no different.

They have had 2 practices. You are taking a comment here or there and calling it proof of something and it’s not. Until the offense is installed there will be no evidence of what changes are made and since the process of installing has really not even started yet, the coaching staff isn’t even aware of the level of change that will result.
What you are doing is the equivalent of watching the first play of a game and projecting that will be the only play they run all day.

 

[All3Phases]

Streamlining has a definition. Words have meaning, you seem to not understand that.

Wrong, Wynn was not saying the terminology was dumbed down he said he is thinking less and playing faster, which is exactly how an OL feels when practicing zone schemes.
I think you made up the Jones comment but of course coaches should be coaching a second year QB to play faster.

I did not by any means “confirm” the simplified blocking assignments. This is where I think you just don’t understand. They have always run both man and zone run blocking plays, in varying proportions. An OL blocks to an area and blocks whoever shows in zone and must look at the defense and figure out which player hid assignment is in man. Since they have focused more on zone plays so far it would seem simpler, but the blocking schemes are no different.

They have had 2 practices. You are taking a comment here or there and calling it proof of something and it’s not. Until the offense is installed there will be no evidence of what changes are made and since the process of installing has really not even started yet, the coaching staff isn’t even aware of the level of change that will result.
What you are doing is the equivalent of watching the first play of a game and projecting that will be the only play they run all day.

And they can streamline the playbooks terminology the same way, which is simplifying it, which is part of the words definition. You don’t seem to understand that, especially in this context.

As for taking Wynns, and Bournes and Macs comments “here or there” and calling it proof of something, that’s exactly what you did with a portion of BBs quote and Andrews quote. And no I didn’t make Macs quote up, that’s your thing. Again, for the 30th time, find me evidence of them streamlining the offensive terminology in years past since it happens every year. You’ve backpedaled away and danced around this conversation enough, now that you’re “explaining” what blocking assignments are. This is how we know you’re dead in the water.

It’s ok, the players are wrong, the coach is wrong, the reporters are wrong. There’s nothing different this year, there’s no smoke. Some guy on an Internet forum said so

Also, are you ever going to admit that you blatantly lied and made this up? Or should I not be taking this comment here or there?

“Your point, the changes are drastic and they are throwing out 20 years of a system and totally overhauling it. “

 

[Ring 6]

Your definition of streamlining doesn’t match the context of this situation, that is for sure. Let alone the actual definition of the word. You can continue to say I don’t understand, and continue to be on your high horse. That’s fine with me, to me you’re blind to what you don’t want to see.

But you don’t give any inkling that you do understand. You are taking statements and blowing them out of proportion. You may not even know what streamline means because you’ve refused at least half a dozen times when I asked you to say what you think it means in order to see if you are even talking about the right thing
It seems as if you have never followed the team before and are ignoring 20+ years of how they operate in your frenzy to argue.

As for taking Wynns, and Bournes and Macs comments “here or there” and calling it proof of something, that’s exactly what you did with a portion of BBs quote and Andrews quote. Again, for the 30th time, find me evidence of them streamlining the offensive terminology in years past since it happens every year. You’ve backpedaled away and danced around this conversation enough, now that you’re “explaining” what blocking assignments are. This is how we know you’re dead in the water.

So think for a second. You are arguing there are wholesale changes unlike any other season. I am saying change happens every season and this is normal.
You post comments that say change is happening. It is I told you it happens every year. You say it’s different this time and I post comments saying they do this every year.

See here is another place you go off the rocker. I explained in great detail that streamlining is not an annual thing. Most years the playbook expands, and then after expansion every few seasons they pull it back throwing out what didn’t work, what they no longer like, etc.
I have not backpedaled anything. I just listed a detailed post about exactly what the process is a few posts back, and have changed absolutely nothing I have said. I am explaining blocking assignments because you don’t seem to understand them. If you think you do then let’s try this.
I explained a completely technically correct and accurate reason why Wynn would feel what he said. It’s unimpeachable. You seem to think that’s not the case. I am very skeptical of your football knowledge
So explain to me specifically what you think is happening in terms of the offense, the schemes, etc that would make Wynn think that. What exactly is changing about his job

It’s ok, the players are wrong, the coach is wrong, the reporters are wrong. There’s nothing different this year, there’s no smoke. Some guy on an Internet forum said so

No, you are wrong.
You seem to lack knowledge of football and how the Patriots operate. So you are taking comments and blowing them into more than they mean.
You are doing it here. Players , coaches and the media are saying
“Change is happening, but that happens every year”
I am saying change is happening and it happens every year.
You are saying it’s massive, wholesale change and I am showing you no that’s not the way they do think and actually even showing you why you could be fooled into thinking so.
Rather than have a conversation about the topic you think this is debate class.
I’m tiring of watching you dodge every question that would indicate your level of knowledge and you twisting my comments into something they are not moving the goalposts.

 

[All3Phases]

But you don’t give any inkling that you do understand. You are taking statements and blowing them out of proportion. You may not even know what streamline means because you’ve refused at least half a dozen times when I asked you to say what you think it means in order to see if you are even talking about the right thing
It seems as if you have never followed the team before and are ignoring 20+ years of how they operate in your frenzy to argue.

So think for a second. You are arguing there are wholesale changes unlike any other season. I am saying change happens every season and this is normal.
You post comments that say change is happening. It is I told you it happens every year. You say it’s different this time and I post comments saying they do this every year.

See here is another place you go off the rocker. I explained in great detail that streamlining is not an annual thing. Most years the playbook expands, and then after expansion every few seasons they pull it back throwing out what didn’t work, what they no longer like, etc.
I have not backpedaled anything. I just listed a detailed post about exactly what the process is a few posts back, and have changed absolutely nothing I have said. I am explaining blocking assignments because you don’t seem to understand them. If you think you do then let’s try this.
I explained a completely technically correct and accurate reason why Wynn would feel what he said. It’s unimpeachable. You seem to think that’s not the case. I am very skeptical of your football knowledge
So explain to me specifically what you think is happening in terms of the offense, the schemes, etc that would make Wynn think that. What exactly is changing about his job

No, you are wrong.
You seem to lack knowledge of football and how the Patriots operate. So you are taking comments and blowing them into more than they mean.
You are doing it here. Players , coaches and the media are saying
“Change is happening, but that happens every year”
I am saying change is happening and it happens every year.
You are saying it’s massive, wholesale change and I am showing you no that’s not the way they do think and actually even showing you why you could be fooled into thinking so.
Rather than have a conversation about the topic you think this is debate class.
I’m tiring of watching you dodge every question that would indicate your level of knowledge and you twisting my comments into something they are not moving the goalposts.

This is a massive post saying, “I am right and you are wrong” and “the quotes from the team don’t matter”.

You keep saying and refusing to give examples of me saying they threw out the playbook and are starting from scratch, and now it’s WHOLESALE changes. My entire argument is the terminology is being simplified because of the inexperience of the coaching staff. I’m sure branches of plays are being removed, options in the plays are being removed. Less thinking equals more reacting. Mac and Wynn have said this. Mac has said they’re teaching the coaches as well as the coaches are teaching the players. I’ve argued nothing else. Both things support my argument. This is different from the past 20 years. Veterans confirmed it, you don’t acknowledge it. You’ve turned this into a pissing match because of your ego

Spend less time projecting what my argument is and twisting it to what you want to hear. This is the second time you’ve lied and you won’t confront the previous quote either. Too funny. Maybe we can streamline this conversation and restart since you haven’t comprehended any of my arguments. Or we can just end it and listen to all the talk about the offensive changes surrounding the team during camp. Up to you

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This is a massive post saying, “I am right and you are wrong” and “the quotes from the team don’t matter”.

You keep saying and refusing to give examples of me saying they threw out the playbook and are starting from scratch, and now it’s WHOLESALE changes. My entire argument is the terminology is being simplified because of the inexperience of the coaching staff. I’m sure branches of plays are being removed, options in the plays are being removed. Less thinking equals more reacting. Mac and Wynn have said this. Mac has said they’re teaching the coaches as well as the coaches are teaching the players. I’ve argued nothing else. Both things support my argument. This is different from the past 20 years. Veterans confirmed it, you don’t acknowledge it. You’ve turned this into a pissing match because of your ego

Spend less time projecting what my argument is and twisting it to what you want to hear. This is the second time you’ve lied and you won’t confront the previous quote either. Too funny. Maybe we can streamline this conversation and restart since you haven’t comprehended any of my arguments. Or we can just end it and listen to all the talk about the offensive changes surrounding the team during camp. Up to you

You've already spent good much with Andy. He seems like a decent guy tbh but ... well, I don't think I need to expand. You seem bright enough to get what's going on here. He'll go 52 pages and you'll get nowhere.

Which is a shame. We should be able to get a nice back n forth debate going without name calling or feel like you're talking to a wall.

 

[All3Phases]

You've already spent good much with Andy. He seems like a decent guy tbh but ... well, I don't think I need to expand. You seem bright enough to get what's going on here. He'll go 52 pages and you'll get nowhere.

Which is a shame. We should be able to get a nice back n forth debate going without name calling or feel like you're talking to a wall.

The sick thing about me is I’ll go on 52 pages as well! The discussion isn’t even important which is the funniest part

 

[venecol]

Looking forward to seeing more threads hijacked by Andy vs new guy when a simple agree to disagree would do.

 

[WTF!]

Looking forward to seeing more threads hijacked by Andy vs new guy when a simple agree to disagree would do.

I’m a bit concerned that the new guy is another Andy account.

 

[All3Phases]

I’m a bit concerned that the new guy is another Andy account.

Haha unfortunately I’m just a bored patriots fan who likes to argue

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The sick thing about me is I’ll go on 52 pages as well! The discussion isn’t even important which is the funniest part

I could definitely be better as well.

 

[All3Phases]

I could definitely be better as well.

Oh well, it’s what forums are for right?!

 

[Ring 6]

This is a massive post saying, “I am right and you are wrong” and “the quotes from the team don’t matter”.

You keep saying and refusing to give examples of me saying they threw out the playbook and are starting from scratch, and now it’s WHOLESALE changes. My entire argument is the terminology is being simplified because of the inexperience of the coaching staff. I’m sure branches of plays are being removed, options in the plays are being removed. Less thinking equals more reacting. Mac and Wynn have said this. Mac has said they’re teaching the coaches as well as the coaches are teaching the players. I’ve argued nothing else. Both things support my argument. This is different from the past 20 years. Veterans confirmed it, you don’t acknowledge it. You’ve turned this into a pissing match because of your ego

Spend less time projecting what my argument is and twisting it to what you want to hear. This is the second time you’ve lied and you won’t confront the previous quote either. Too funny. Maybe we can streamline this conversation and restart since you haven’t comprehended any of my arguments. Or we can just end it and listen to all the talk about the offensive changes surrounding the team during camp. Up to you

Well we disagree. So yes my opinion is I am right and you are wrong.
You have not moved my opinion at all by trying to cull an organizational strategy out of a few interview comments and 2 June mini practices.

I gave a 12 point long list of examples. I have absolutely zero interest in searching media to back up things I know. You can either accept it ir not, or do some research yourself to learn. I care not.
Mac didn’t say he’s teaching the coaches. He made a rhetorical comment about working and learning together. Parsing words said to the media by the Belichick Patriots would have to be about the worst historical predictor of anything in all of sports.
I’m not in a pissing match and my ego is 0% affected by patsfans.com. It seems however that you consider this some kind of debate class or contest to win points from other posters.


If you want to “start over” the let’s do this.

1) define what you think streamlining means
2) go back to the original post of mine you responded to and the context of it. You entered this discussion by saying you think they are changing the offense to take away the complex site read passing game so that an idiot like 85 could thrive in it. I’ve brought this up numerous times and like (1) you refuse to address it.

I see no point filling these pages with “oh yeah” any further if you don’t want to address thise and gave a real discussion.
You act as if I am trying to set you up with questions, but what I am really doing is trying to have you actually commit to what you think in real terms (as I did in the 12 point posts that you basically ignored) so I can show you how and why my opinion differs.

Up to you.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I’m a bit concerned that the new guy is another Andy account.

would it be the first time he argue's with himself? @venecol can provide inside here

 

[venecol]

would it be the first time he argue's with himself? @venecol can provide inside here

Classic.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

View attachment 43505

Classic.

that's exactly what i meant, thank you sir !

 

[TheRainMaker]

View attachment 43505

Classic.

That's was funny. How did you find that so fast?

@All3Phases sometimes you just have to let the other poster get the last word and move on.

 

[Ring 6]

View attachment 43505

Classic.

Sadly you cannot understand those comments are consistent with each other, not arguments against each other.
You actually expose your own stupidity when you post that. Bravo.

 

[Ring 6]

That's was funny. How did you find that so fast?

Because he is obsessed with me, and afraid to confront me, so he finds a post where I added to my comments by quoting my own post and the moron doesn’t realize what he is reading.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Because he is obsessed with me, and afraid to confront me, so he finds a post where I added to my comments by quoting my own post and the moron doesn’t realize what he is reading.

So now that we have conformation you were Andy Johnson...why the change in account and name given your long history with board?