Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Ravens

[Thelonious]

Perhaps I missed the boat, but per your line of thinking, could you explain why the Pats even offerered Cam Newton a job?

You line of thinking seems to be "so what if we tank, we can see who we can groom for next year, let's just get rid of the vets.

I didn't say get rid of them: I said sit them in order to vet alternatives. I have no idea why they offered Cam a job. Such folly is inexplicable. You might as well ask,"Why do people listen to Yanni records or tattoo their d---ks?"

 

[sb1]

The 49ers toyed around with our defense at will. Cam didn't have a good game but saying he "singlehandedly" lost the game is not particularly reasonable. He had overall good games against the Bills (minus the fumble at the end), the Jets and now the Ravens. Things are trending into the right direction but our margin for error is just razor thin.

I think it's clear the Patriots have successfully converted Cam to a game manager QB. He is not taking chances anymore, he isn't running much, he is throwing short and taking what the defense gives him and not making mistakes. Probably by necessity but it's working. I don't see why they should take the reins off now. We have almost the best run attack in the league and a very good OL too. Teams have and can still win with a game manager type of QB and the right conditions are there for him to succeed in this role. He also has a great attitude and I'm sure is receptive to this move.

If we're looking for big passing numbers from Cam that probably isn't going to happen.

 

[jah]

I think it's clear the Patriots have successfully converted Cam to a game manager QB. He is not taking chances anymore, he isn't running much, he is throwing short and taking what the defense gives him and not making mistakes. Probably by necessity but it's working. I don't see why they should take the reins off now. We have almost the best run attack in the league and a very good OL too. Teams have and can still win with a game manager type of QB and the right conditions are there for him to succeed in this role. He also has a great attitude and I'm sure is receptive to this move.

If we're looking for big passing numbers from Cam that probably isn't going to happen.

The reins may be equally due to the other players on the offense as much as it is about Cam himself. Hard to justify risks when there are very few targets you can trust to make low percentage plays.

 

[captain stone]

yeah have had the same thoughts, for me it looked like both were fighting for the ball during the process of the receiver going down, but lets say I am not surprised the refs immediately called down by contact though dugger took the ball away of the receiver, the receiver hasn't had full control of the ball at any time (but I might be wrong here)

they anyway tend to stop the game to early sometimes without giving the D# any chance to make a play, oh well Goodell wants pass heavy, offensive show, the defense is there just to have someone to call a DPI on when the offense doesn't get it done by their own

That's what I thought...The ball was against Andrews' chest, but it was Dugger's hand that was underneath it...I didn't see Andrews demonstrate Full control of it at Any point during the catching process...

 

[jimnance]

I think it's clear the Patriots have successfully converted Cam to a game manager QB. He is not taking chances anymore, he isn't running much, he is throwing short and taking what the defense gives him and not making mistakes. Probably by necessity but it's working. I don't see why they should take the reins off now. We have almost the best run attack in the league and a very good OL too. Teams have and can still win with a game manager type of QB and the right conditions are there for him to succeed in this role. He also has a great attitude and I'm sure is receptive to this move.

If we're looking for big passing numbers from Cam that probably isn't going to happen.

At some point, the reins will have to come off some, especially if Pats make the playoffs. Defenses will adjust and load the box. Hopefully by then, Jules is healthy, Cam has continued to build chemistry with Jakobi,Byrd et al and maybe the tes have become even a little bit of a factor. And we'll need Cam running. But it makes sense to manage his running now. We need him later.
Problem is, at 4-5 not a lot of margin for error. Pats almost have to win out. Not impossible. But they won't do it w/o Cam running and a bigger impact from passing game.
Carl Davis might be the most important move BB made all season. Pats run D has to be solid for Pats to go anywhere. It ain't all on the offense

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think it's clear the Patriots have successfully converted Cam to a game manager QB. He is not taking chances anymore, he isn't running much, he is throwing short and taking what the defense gives him and not making mistakes. Probably by necessity but it's working. I don't see why they should take the reins off now. We have almost the best run attack in the league and a very good OL too. Teams have and can still win with a game manager type of QB and the right conditions are there for him to succeed in this role. He also has a great attitude and I'm sure is receptive to this move.

If we're looking for big passing numbers from Cam that probably isn't going to happen.

I like "game manager" Cam who runs for 20+ yards per game. Big passing numbers are not needed but medium passing numbers would be great, like 200+ per game, to keep 7 in the box. We need to make teams pay if they put 8 in the box to have a balanced attack on offense. I love ground and pound, but we need to up our passing efficiency for games with good weather or in domes.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Just wanted to get this on the record. I did thoroughly enjoy that game. Best game of the season. Beating the Ratbirds was our superbowl. I did think McDoofus was going to blow the game when he called for 3 passes in a row and settled for a short FG after 1st & goal. Harris was running over people and they started to pass close the goal line. Even with leaving 4-points on the table they did pull out the win. Weather assisted. I'll take it.

 

[Sfpat]

That's what I thought...The ball was against Andrews' chest, but it was Dugger's hand that was underneath it...I didn't see Andrews demonstrate Full control of it at Any point during the catching process...

I agree. I never thought Andrews had control at any point. Should have been ruled an interception

 

[Gumby]

I agree. I never thought Andrews had control at any point. Should have been ruled an interception

Officially, I think tie possession goes to the wr. In the gotohell era, even more so. With them going to ground as part of catch process (as opposed to seeing a bobble/lack of control while stand/run) you realistically couldn’t expect much different.
i would prefer to see D get more ref love, but that not the era we are in.

 

[DaBruinz]

The 49ers toyed around with our defense at will. Cam didn't have a good game but saying he "singlehandedly" lost the game is not particularly reasonable. He had overall good games against the Bills (minus the fumble at the end), the Jets and now the Ravens. Things are trending into the right direction but our margin for error is just razor thin.

Sure it is. Cam ended every single drive of the 1st half against the 49ers with either poor throws or poor decisions or both. There weren't any balls that bounced on players hands that led to interceptions. There weren't any drops on catchable passes. There weren't any spectacular plays by the 49ers defense. That allowed the 49ers offense to be on the field for 18 of the first 23 minutes of the first half. The defense never had a chance to rest because Cam flat out sucked.

Yes, he's gotten his act together, the last 2 games, but the Bills game he was still bad. Not as bad as the 49ers game, but still bad. He still showed the bad throws and bad decision making skills. And the way he runs with the ball, it's no wonder he doesn't have more fumbles on his runs.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is guy is Deonte Skinner circa 2014 starting over Mayo.

Like Skinner, It's bizarre why he's out there.

Bentley was inactive due to injury. But why let facts get in the way, right...

 

[DaBruinz]

So what about Ryan Izzo. In the last 2 games he's been targeted twice, made 2 incredible catches and had two 20+ yd completions. I've wondered on several occasions why Izzo hasn't been targeted more. He's pretty much caught everything thrown at him over the season.

Izzo is 10 of 16 on the year. He was blanked against KC where he was 0/3 where he had 1 drop. He's been pretty consistent the last 4 games when targeted.

 

[DaBruinz]

He's had a couple of fumbles in key moments, which is only amplified by how few times he's touched the ball.

No. Izzo has 1 fumble on the year. Yes, it was in a key moment. He's had 2 drops. 1 of which was in a key moment.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think it's clear the Patriots have successfully converted Cam to a game manager QB. He is not taking chances anymore, he isn't running much, he is throwing short and taking what the defense gives him and not making mistakes. Probably by necessity but it's working. I don't see why they should take the reins off now. We have almost the best run attack in the league and a very good OL too. Teams have and can still win with a game manager type of QB and the right conditions are there for him to succeed in this role. He also has a great attitude and I'm sure is receptive to this move.

If we're looking for big passing numbers from Cam that probably isn't going to happen.

What do you consider to be "isn't running much"? He's actually running MORE than he ever did in Carolina. He's rushing 10 times per game here compared to 7.5 times per game during his career in Carolina. And yes, I kept the times that he just took a knee in because I wasn't about to go through 125 game longs for his time in Carolina to take them all out.

That being said, his last 2 games have been excellent in terms of completion percentage (76+%) and in terms of Yards per attempt (7.83 and 8.12 respectively). That means the O-line is buying him time to get through his progressions. And the YPC is in the 10 range so it supports what you said about taking what the defense gives him. Some of his throws are still head scratchers in terms of placement, but he's not like he was against the 49ers.

 

[luuked]

I think it's clear the Patriots have successfully converted Cam to a game manager QB. He is not taking chances anymore, he isn't running much, he is throwing short and taking what the defense gives him and not making mistakes. Probably by necessity but it's working. I don't see why they should take the reins off now. We have almost the best run attack in the league and a very good OL too. Teams have and can still win with a game manager type of QB and the right conditions are there for him to succeed in this role. He also has a great attitude and I'm sure is receptive to this move.

If we're looking for big passing numbers from Cam that probably isn't going to happen.

I don't know if I agree with this. He is consistently converting 3rd/4th & shorts, is a weapon in the red zone and given good protection also has been pretty efficient as a passer before the COVID break and now in the last three games. And we are not only talking dump offs but also intermediate and the occasional deeper pass.

To me what happened really is not the story of Cam becoming a game manager but more the coaching staff becoming comfortable with the identity of this team. We have one of the best OLs in the league and a top notch running game. Having Cam as QB is a multiplier on top of that because other teams need to account for him as well. Why would you open it up more than necessary under those circumstances ?

Especially, after a stretch of four games where we had like 3+ turnovers in a row. I think they will slowly but surely incorporate the passing game more into game plans now that they have established what they are. I can only imagine how McDaniels is salivating calling a more pass plays now with the running game looking like a well oiled machine.

If you rewatch the game it is clear that Cam has become a lot more comfortable with the offense calling out adjustments and changing plays much faster and also understands his reads better. I am not sure that dump off to Johnson after Cam rolled out to the side would have happened a month ago.

Quite frankly he will obviously never be even close to Brady as a passer but we don't need him to be that. He brings other things to the table.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I honestly think he has one read per play and that’s it. His read is name Meyers. Except for one play to Izzo, it was Meyers or the RB/FB. Cam doesn’t have the ability to carry this team on his back. The OL carries this team.

When your WR throws better balls than your QB you have a problem.

with this team identity, everything has to go prefect to win. You make one mistake and you are done

 

[Ring 6]

I've noticed this as well. Since he's been playing, the run D has stiffened up quite a bit.

Pro football reference shows that he has played zero snaps on defense.

 

[Sciz]

Pro football reference shows that he has played zero snaps on defense.

They are incorrectly giving his defensive snaps to Cody, the other C Davis on defense. The last two pages here have the correct values:

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/58314/NE_Gamebook.pdf

 

[JoeA]

Yes, he's gotten his act together, the last 2 games, but the Bills game he was still bad. Not as bad as the 49ers game, but still bad. He still showed the bad throws and bad decision making skills. And the way he runs with the ball, it's no wonder he doesn't have more fumbles on his runs.

In Cam's defense, I really can't think of a "known running QB" in the last 20 years who would actually SECURE the ball during the entire play they were running. Generally it's the ball not tucked away and someone comes from the side or behind.

Out of curiosity, looked at the stats

Esiason (who for some reason can't stand as an announcer) 123 fumbles in 13 years = 9.46 fumbles per year
Elway 137 fumbles in 15 years = 9.13 fumbles per year
Favre 166 fumbles in 19 years = 8.73 fumbles per year
E. Manning 125 fumbles in 15 years = 8.33
McNabb 95 fumbles in 12 years = 7.91 fumbles per year
Vick 98 fumbles in 14 years = 7 fumbles per year
Cunningham 105 fumbles in 16 years = 6.56 fumbles per year
Newton 58 fumbles in 9 years = 6.44 fumbles per year
Brady 126 fumbles in 20 years = 6.3 fumbles per year

Of course what the stats don't tell you is if the fumble occured in the pocket passing or running.

That said, the assumption is Newton, Vick,and Cunningham were making more run plays downfield themselves than Brady.

Point is I know th feeling of screaming "secure the ball" when I see a QB running down field and the fact that Cam really doesn't fumble that much being at the QB position and he's a known runner.

 

[luuked]

Point is I know th feeling of screaming "secure the ball" when I see a QB running down field and the fact that Cam really doesn't fumble that much being at the QB position and he's a known runner.

And the way Brady keeps the ball often until the last moment it is a wonder he has not landed on IR with a serious injury every year.

I mean at some point maybe we need to acknowledge that it is not coincidence that things happen a certain way -- especially when observed over a long period of time -- but maybe those players just have found things that work for them.