PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Kony Ealy - bold prediction, won't make roster


Status
Not open for further replies.
The value we gave up for Ealy = a fourth round draft pick, which I consider good value...so I would be very dissapointed if we cut Ealy in exchange for giving up that kind of value


But bb isn't afraid to cut his losses, so nothing would surprise me

I wish we could get rid of that stupid pointless value chart people are frequently bringing to conversations. It is meaningless beyond fulfilling this weird need some people have to quantify everything just to have an intellectual shortcut to evaluate things. Don't even get me started on how lazy the idea of a static draft value chart is just based on how each draft is different in its depth, positional strengths and individual teams needs.

The reality is: No we didn't give up a fourth round pick for Ealy, we gave up nothing because by all reports we ended up with the very same player we would have chosen 8 spots earlier anyway.

BB got himself a player without comprising any of the draft picks. That's the definition of free.


Finally, people need to stop associating the draft spot with roster safety. The reason BB rarely cuts players drafted in the top 3 rounds in their first 3 years is because the skills and traits that made them high picks in the first place are still there and not because of where they were picked. He is not someone who has a problem cutting losses because of sunk costs.
 
His performance was generally poor, but I thought he looked more dazed and confused than listless and lazy.


You can use any colours you want . but Ealy was poor in every snap, every position. What's worse . on re-watch I couldn't find a single positive to hang my hope on.
__

Loss of trade is beside the point. Loss of DE who was brought in to play at least in rotation after Sheard, Long (and later Ninko) left is what could really hurt.

No reason to panic of course, just not good to see. Fortunately there's Guy, Wise showing up early could be a nice compensation (if he can stay on the field which was always his only issue).

It was interesting to see the use of Rivers Thursday. After reports that he was practicing a lot off line he played exclusively DE (both sides). His short hands hurt his game vs long tackles but if you put him in a more favourable matchups he showed he can be part of rotation on line as well.

Butler played 4-3 DE as well so that was somewhat surprising but maybe also related to Ealy and DE situation. On the other hand Grissom played mostly “OLB“ (next to DE). Unfortunately not effective either (he was good on ST again which is somewhat mind boggling . why he cannot break through even a little on D)

Langi was another guy they used at DE more than you'd expect (although thhis was reported from practices as well) so obviously the search is on and another trade for DE certainly not out of the Q.
 
You can use any colours you want . but Ealy was poor in every snap, every position.

I agree that Ealy totally sucked. It looked to me like he didn't understand what he was supposed to be doing. If that's the case, then there's still a chance, however remote, that he could "get it."

If it's really the case that he wasn't trying at all, that's a whole different thing, and a surprise that he hasn't been cut yet.

WRT Adam Butler ... at around 6'4" and just under 300 lbs, he seems to have a body type more like Guy (3-4 DE -ish) than like Brown, Valentine, etc. I was wondering going into the game if we'd see him deployed at DE, and he was at LDE for at least the opening snap.

The Pats defense has been playing a lot of hybrid 3-4/4-3 "looks" since around 2010 or 2011. Sometimes they have one end of the line aligned in 3-4/2-gap and the other in 4-3/1-gap, and they often move guys around to alter the look during the snap count. Last season, they sometimes used Valentine or Brown in that role, but both are roughly 6'2"/320+.

Anyway, if Butler is versatile and intelligent enough to handle that, it's a big plus for him.. It seemed to me that the Jags almost immediately began double-teaming Butler on the end during that first series and at least a few times after that. I'm guessing that the Jags figured out that they needed to do that for Butler during joint practices, so maybe that's an indication that he can handle it.

Still mere speculation at this point, but it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
 
I agree that Ealy totally sucked. It looked to me like he didn't understand what he was supposed to be doing. If that's the case, then there's still a chance, however remote, that he could "get it."

If it's really the case that he wasn't trying at all, that's a whole different thing, and a surprise that he hasn't been cut yet.

WRT Adam Butler ... at around 6'4" and just under 300 lbs, he seems to have a body type more like Guy (3-4 DE -ish) than like Brown, Valentine, etc. I was wondering going into the game if we'd see him deployed at DE, and he was at LDE for at least the opening snap.

The Pats defense has been playing a lot of hybrid 3-4/4-3 "looks" since around 2010 or 2011. Sometimes they have one end of the line aligned in 3-4/2-gap and the other in 4-3/1-gap, and they often move guys around to alter the look during the snap count. Last season, they sometimes used Valentine or Brown in that role, but both are roughly 6'2"/320+.

Anyway, if Butler is versatile and intelligent enough to handle that, it's a big plus for him.. It seemed to me that the Jags almost immediately began double-teaming Butler on the end during that first series and at least a few times after that. I'm guessing that the Jags figured out that they needed to do that for Butler during joint practices, so maybe that's an indication that he can handle it.

Still mere speculation at this point, but it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.


Ealy looked like he cannot win a single 1v1. That's nothing about “getting it“. The same was reported from TC. Losing 1v1 day after day in practice was most alarming thing to me re. Ealy. Unfortunately that was painfully confirmed on Thursday.

He was talking about certain health issues (re “the thing he had“ w BB) so who knows what the reason is . the fact is he didn't look like an NFL player Thursday night and he mostly played against backup competition at best.
_

Agreed on Butler and look forward seeing it progress. He has certain limitations but if he can show consistency and prove further his versatile use could be important..
 
I wish we could get rid of that stupid pointless value chart people are frequently bringing to conversations. It is meaningless beyond fulfilling this weird need some people have to quantify everything just to have an intellectual shortcut to evaluate things. Don't even get me started on how lazy the idea of a static draft value chart is just based on how each draft is different in its depth, positional strengths and individual teams needs.

The reality is: No we didn't give up a fourth round pick for Ealy, we gave up nothing because by all reports we ended up with the very same player we would have chosen 8 spots earlier anyway.

BB got himself a player without comprising any of the draft picks. That's the definition of free.


Finally, people need to stop associating the draft spot with roster safety. The reason BB rarely cuts players drafted in the top 3 rounds in their first 3 years is because the skills and traits that made them high picks in the first place are still there and not because of where they were picked. He is not someone who has a problem cutting losses because of sunk costs.

I think fans frequently misunderstand the actual purpose of the standard draft value chart.

It was originally developed by a couple math geeks working for the Cowboys under Jimmie Johnson. They wanted to quantify how teams valued the various places in line. They reviewed the entire history of draft pick trades to see how the teams themselves had been making pick-for-pick trades (a late-2nd + a mid-3rd = a mid-2nd, atc.) and then experimented with plugging in numbers until the could get roughly balanced equations for every historic trade. Then they extrapolated numeric values for all the picks that weren't involved in trades.

IOW, those pick values weren't arbitrarily assigned, and they were NOT at all based on the ultimate success/failure of the prospects who were picked in those slots, so the values for each slot are completely divorced from the differences in depth, positional strengths from draft class to draft class and team needs.

Anyway, the 'Boys didn't do create the chart for the betterment of the league. In fact, it was a closely-guarded secret for the first couple of years. The 'Boys were essentially (and effectively) using it to get the better of other teams in pick trades. Because coaches and front-office people move from team-to-team, eventually other teams got ahold of the chart and began using it.

And now all teams do, in one team-customized version or another. The proof of this is in the fact that about 90% of all pick-for-picks trades work out to within 5% of the standard chart values, and about half of them work out to within 2%. I personally ran the numeric equations for every trade over a ten-year period, so I'm not making this up or reporting someone else's "guesstimate."

Trades involving picks in the top five or so have the largest variation from standard chart value equivalency (as much as +/- 29%). Sometimes teams will offer a point value "discount" if they receive an extra late-round pick. And there's a fudge-factor involved in calculating trades involving future picks, although even those often work out remarkably close if you use the general principle that a 2017 mid-3rd equals a 2018 mid-2nd, etc.

Overall, in real life, teams stick very close to standard chart values when making trades.

The point is that the chart was never intended to assign a value to the actual prospect who ended up getting picked in a particular spot, but merely to assign a value to the opportunity that the spot represented to a team to pick the prospect they wanted.

A lot of fans have this notion that "moving up in the draft gets you a better player". It doesn't. It only provides an earlier opportunity to pick a prospect who you think will become a better player - an opportunity to jump ahead of other teams who may want the same guy. To my knowledge, no team has ever arbitrarily initiated a trade up in the hopes that some random "better player" will fall to them there. They're always targeting one or another specific prospect who they're convinced won't still be on the board later.

Thus, the standard draft chart point value for a particular slot (opportunity) has no relationship whatsoever to how a team calculates the potential value of the prospect they intend to pick in that slot, much less how he turns out. Attempts to reverse engineer/re-calculate the chart based on an arbitrary/subjective average value of how the prospects selected at each slot have turned out are completely missing the point. No team operates that way in real life.

OTOH, using the chart as a rough guide to figuring how much "draft capital" a team spent to acquire a specific prospect (or veteran player) versus how the guy actually worked out is merely one way of putting things in perspective.
 
The reason BB rarely cuts players drafted in the top 3 rounds in their first 3 years is because the skills and traits that made them high picks in the first place are still there and not because of where they were picked. He is not someone who has a problem cutting losses because of sunk costs.

First, the issue is the first 2 years. Most agree that 3 training camps should be enough to evaluate a player.

Second, I would suggest that you look at the list of players that were kept in their second (and third year since you bring it up). There are many poor players that were given an additional chance or two.
 
I wish we could get rid of that stupid pointless value chart people are frequently bringing to conversations. It is meaningless beyond fulfilling this weird need some people have to quantify everything just to have an intellectual shortcut to evaluate things. Don't even get me started on how lazy the idea of a static draft value chart is just based on how each draft is different in its depth, positional strengths and individual teams needs.

The reality is: No we didn't give up a fourth round pick for Ealy, we gave up nothing because by all reports we ended up with the very same player we would have chosen 8 spots earlier anyway.

BB got himself a player without comprising any of the draft picks. That's the definition of free.


Finally, people need to stop associating the draft spot with roster safety. The reason BB rarely cuts players drafted in the top 3 rounds in their first 3 years is because the skills and traits that made them high picks in the first place are still there and not because of where they were picked. He is not someone who has a problem cutting losses because of sunk costs.

The reality is that they did give up said value.
The reality is that there is more roster safety for a higher pick.

Neither of those is debatable. The first is simple numbers, and the second is historically proven.
 
First, the issue is the first 2 years. Most agree that 3 training camps should be enough to evaluate a player.

Second, I would suggest that you look at the list of players that were kept in their second (and third year since you bring it up). There are many poor players that were given an additional chance or two.

Because said players had traits or skills that could make them a difference maker if said player could put everything together. It has nothing to do with where they were drafted. Bequette is the ideal example. He had all the measurables but just could not become a good football player but they gave him all the time in the world because of his potential.

You are looking at the wrong side of the correlation between draft pick and player skill. Someone doesn't have potential because he was drafted early but he gets drafted early because of that potential. If there is nothing to salvage with Ealy then he will be cut no matter how much imaginary value we allegedly gave up.
 
Because said players had traits or skills that could make them a difference maker if said player could put everything together. It has nothing to do with where they were drafted. Bequette is the ideal example. He had all the measurables but just could not become a good football player but they gave him all the time in the world because of his potential.

You are looking at the wrong side of the correlation between draft pick and player skill. Someone doesn't have potential because he was drafted early but he gets drafted early because of that potential.

You're arguing the "why" rather than the "what". The reality is that, as history has shown, top draft picks have more security.
 
Famous for busting out that twin-neck. Probably during "Stairway." Great choice for the avatar pic.

My favorite era of Page is during the mid70s when they made Presence. He was a coked up freak on the guitar. I know I'm definitely in the minority, but when I think of Led Zeppelin, I think of something like "Achilles Last Stand."

Achilles Last Stand is amazing. The drums, the vocals and of course the guitar kick from start to end. Presence is one of my favorite Zeppelin albums. It's raw and somewhat stripped down compared to Physical Graffiti or Houses of the Holy but its rips and is great from start to finish.

I was at the beach today with my son (football in hand!). We had a portable Bose bluetooth speakers. He was playing mostly him hop but after 2 or 3 straight songs he would throw on some old school tracks . One of them was Hots on for Nowhere from Presence so its cool that you mention it.

Rock on Supafly - and Go Pats
 
I wish we could get rid of that stupid pointless value chart people are frequently bringing to conversations. It is meaningless beyond fulfilling this weird need some people have to quantify everything just to have an intellectual shortcut to evaluate things. Don't even get me started on how lazy the idea of a static draft value chart is just based on how each draft is different in its depth, positional strengths and individual teams needs.

The reality is: No we didn't give up a fourth round pick for Ealy, we gave up nothing because by all reports we ended up with the very same player we would have chosen 8 spots earlier anyway.

BB got himself a player without comprising any of the draft picks. That's the definition of free.


Finally, people need to stop associating the draft spot with roster safety. The reason BB rarely cuts players drafted in the top 3 rounds in their first 3 years is because the skills and traits that made them high picks in the first place are still there and not because of where they were picked. He is not someone who has a problem cutting losses because of sunk costs.

This year, the draft chart to judge this trade was useless even if the Pats didn't select the player they would have drafted in the second round. It is generally believed that the quality of talent in the second and third round (at least around that part of the draft) was pretty much all the same.
 
There just isn't enough talent behind him at the moment. Dropping him from the roster would be quite risky, so he probably makes the 53 just by default. If other players step up as the season progresses, and Ealy proves to not take coaching well... he's gone.
 
Wise probably isn't ready to have large numbers of reps at DE. Rivers, almost surely, is not. We have Flowers and our LB's. At least one of Grissom and Ealy is likely to make the 53. One DE is simply not enough.
 
And there it is. So much for everyone ridiculing me for this thread and for having the audacity to suggest Ealy won't make the roster.

Pats are gauging trade market for Ealy aka trying to get a 6th or 7th round for someone they paid the equivalent of 4th round a few months ago. Most likely they won't get any offers and will just have to dump him.

Ealy is already dead man walking.

 
And there it is. So much for everyone ridiculing me for this thread and for having the audacity to suggest Ealy won't make the roster.

Pats are gauging trade market for Ealy aka trying to get a 6th or 7th round for someone they paid the equivalent of 4th round a few months ago. Most likely they won't get any offers and will just have to dump him.

Ealy is already dead man walking.



Not surprising.
 
And there it is. So much for everyone ridiculing me for this thread and for having the audacity to suggest Ealy won't make the roster.

Pats are gauging trade market for Ealy aka trying to get a 6th or 7th round for someone they paid the equivalent of 4th round a few months ago. Most likely they won't get any offers and will just have to dump him.

Ealy is already dead man walking.



For one, as stated in the new thread on this tweet, it's oddly worded and doesn't mean he's still being shopped or will actually end up being traded.

For another, I don't think anyone is ridiculing your opinions for being ultimately wrong, they're ridiculing your opinions for being embarrassingly premature.
 
And there it is. So much for everyone ridiculing me for this thread and for having the audacity to suggest Ealy won't make the roster.

Pats are gauging trade market for Ealy aka trying to get a 6th or 7th round for someone they paid the equivalent of 4th round a few months ago. Most likely they won't get any offers and will just have to dump him.

Ealy is already dead man walking.



First, I don't know if people ridiculed you or just said it was way too early to speak definitives. Personally, I always looked at him as a low risk, potentially high reward type of move. I never expected him to be this impact starter. I always saw him more of a role player. I thought his ceiling was a Mark Anderson type of player. I only ridiculed people who player hate before they do enough to earn that hate. I have never gotten the mentality to hate one of your favorite teams players unless they are a cancer or a complete dog.

Second, we have no idea if this rumor is true or even if it is whether they are just judging the market if they make another move. Also, this tweet seems to imply they were shopping him early, but have lately been happy (or happier) with his progress.

No offense, but I wouldn't take a victory lap until he is either cut or traded. We haven't heard any of the local guys confirm this and even if the Pats were shopping him doesn't necessarily mean they still are.
 
Jesus, Belichick had to have been well aware of his character flaws. Steep price we paid to get him too. Hopefully he has a few trades up his sleeve.
 
Jesus, Belichick had to have been well aware of his character flaws. Steep price we paid to get him too. Hopefully he has a few trades up his sleeve.

It wasn't a steep price. It was the equivalent of a late 4th round pick. It isn't nothing, but not that steep. Many 4th rounders don't stick with this team for more than a year or two.

It's funny, when the Pats got Ealy, everyone said the Pats got him for next to nothing. And now that he might not stick, it is a steep price.
 
And there it is. So much for everyone ridiculing me for this thread and for having the audacity to suggest Ealy won't make the roster.

Pats are gauging trade market for Ealy aka trying to get a 6th or 7th round for someone they paid the equivalent of 4th round a few months ago. Most likely they won't get any offers and will just have to dump him.

Ealy is already dead man walking.


I don't beo I've I criticized but I believed BB would of gotten the best out of him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
Back
Top