Gordon Hayward signing 4 yr max contract with Celtics

[aluminum seats]

Your pantry is alphabetically ordered, isn't it? Be honest.

Exactly. Consider the vastness of the internet. Millions of sites. It takes a special type of insanity to get REALLY MAD about one message board about a Boston team DARING to have a thread or two about another Boston team and NOT PUT IT IN THE RIGHT FORUM. Yikes.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Yes, and picture a year from now when LeBron heads to LA and we have yet another high first round pick in our hands...

Potentially 2 with LA's and Brooklyn's... If they both become high lottery picks,it has the potential to put the 2018-19 team at the level to win a championship, akin to the 1980-81 team that added Parrish ( trade) and McHale ( draft- via that same trade/steal) to a Bird-led team.

 

[Froob]

Now they can lose to the Cavs in 6.

Sounds about right, to be honest. But, much closer than last year without ridiculous blowouts. We are on a way up, Hayward is 27 and will age well and I think he'll be in for the long haul with Stevens. Yuuuuuuuuuge pickup.

 

[Froob]

Neither the hard cap nor the no cap is going to matter. Basketball is what it is because it has the fewest players. It's a 5-8 man team, realistically, and the impact of each player is greater as a result. Historically, all it's taken is 3 great players to make a consistent champion and, when you get more than that, you get super teams (80's Celtics and Lakers, for example).

What's happened in the last few years is that it's been the players creating the teams instead of just the GMs. Other than that, nothing's really changed.

Respectfully disagree, super stars aren't getting paid relative to their impact. Guys like LeBron, KD and Steph don't make nearly enough due to the max contract limit. Hard cap and no max contracts would produce a drastically different league. While you are right a few great players is huge, they wouldn't be able to easily fit two superstars like KD and Steph on one team and still have a deep team.

 

[DarrylS]

Very soon the naysayers' mantra will be: Calm down, Hayward's not that good...

I hope he does not get into an argument with Scal or Maxwell, then the long knives of sports talk radiowill come out to drive him out of town.. Boston Sports Media will be at its finest if you get on their bad side "forgettaboutit", they will rally the sheeple into believing what a bad player he is..

 

[JayNM]

The Warriors are the best team in the NBA, by some margin.

I'd love to know what you guys think, since I don't know many Basketball guys here in Brazil lol. Do you agree or disagree with that statement? (You can hit the buttons, no need to answer back)

 

[BTTA]

Hey this forum had a thread on the death of Princess Leia.

Could we at least get a spoiler alert with announcements like that?

 

[patfanken]

Would love to see them add Chris Bosh to the mix if there is any way that it is possible within reason. Hopefully Smart goes out as on of the guys cut to make room. That would be my dream offseason.

Been watching since the 80s. My five least favorite Celtics:

5) Mark Blount
4) Jiri Welsch
3) Dan ****au
2) Pervis Ellison
1) Marcus Smart

In that order.

This makes absolutely NO sense. Marcus smart will be a key player coming off the bench. He's already one of the best defensive players in the LEAGUE, and he's improved his offensive game every year he's been with the C's. Also to use football language, he has a non-stop motor, plays with high intensity, and plays with "an edge". WTF do you want from the guy.

One thought that I have is, if his and Rozier's game improves over the course of the season, the C's will leverage Thomas to take a lower than Max deal if he wants to stay with the team, and be fine with it if he walks. I LOVE Thomas, but when he's on the court, its 5 on 4 when the C's play defense.

Remember even if Thomas walks in 2018 the C's will have an improved Brown and Tatum, plus 3 first round draft picks, AND cap space to add the kind of talent to replace what is essentially a one way player. A great one way player, but a one way player nonetheless.

BTW- IF the Celts are to maximize their offense this season, Thomas' individual scoring stats will NEED to go down, while his assists should soar.

On the topic of Cleveland, I think they are NOT out of reach. Depth IS important in basketball, even if it's not as critical as it is in football. They play a hard 82 game schedule and injuries are a part of their game too. Labron, Irving, and Love, are a better threesome than what the C's can offer, BUT "the some of the whole is better than the individual parts" is a phrase that can be used in basketball as well as football. That is where the Stevens factor comes into play.

I believe the Pats play at least half their games each year when the the opposition has the same or more individual talent and its the BB factor, and the fact he can get his team to be one where the "sum of the whole is better than the individual parts", that allows them to be as successful as they have been. GS has great talent, but people here severely have underrated how important the contributions of Steve Kerr and Mike Brown were to their success.

 

[BobDigital]

Irving is better than any players the Celtics have? If he is, it's not by much. Here's the problem with your analysis: It isn't Irving and James against the Celtics. It's 12 on 12. Taytum is an elite scorer, so is Hayward and IT. Not to mention how much deeper this team will be. Zicic and Yabusele will add rebounding and rim protection. Ojeleye may end up in Maine, but he looks like the steal of the draft and would be a great addition. Nader will be coming up. D League Rookie of the year. Very polished, mid 20s player. This is not a young kid. He is an experienced guy. And Jaylen will be another year further in his progression. All of them will be a big upgrade over the current role players.

The Celtics were open for the entire Eastern Conference Finals. They just weren't talented enough to knock down the shots. That wont be a problem this year. The Cavs are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. They had success against the Celtics last year because the could key in on IT. They wont be able to do that this year and will struggle against the Celtics defensively.

Not only is it possible that they take out the Cavs this year, I think it's very likely. You are too focused on stars. This isn't fantasy basketball. The Celtics aren't top heavy but they are very deep. That should be enough to beat Cleveland. Cleveland is not the juggernaut people make them out to be. They are just in a very weak conference. They are top heavy, assuming James is still James at his age. But after Irving, LeBron and Love there is a massive drop off in talent and they can't defend. The Cavs do not scare me.

The Cavs didn't lose to the Warrriors because they don't have enough stars. They lost because they are a terrible defensive team. Teams don't win based on how many stars they have. They win based on how effectively they play as a unit. The Celtics had nowhere near the talent that Golden State did the last two years. Yet they are 2-0 vs the Warriors and have a perfect record in Golden State in that time frame.

Yes Irving is better than any player the Celtics have and it was by a pretty decent amount to be honest. Also I know the rosters of each team and the 12 on 12 argument doesn't really hold up well. If we are going there we will just need to agree to disagree. The game is played 5 on 5 with minimum minutes for backups in the playoffs. Also stars matter a lot as it is not like each player on the floor controls an equal 20% of the game for their team at any given time. It is also about who sees the ball the most. When James for instance is on the floor he may just be 1 of 5 players but he sees the ball way way more than 1 in 5 times. As does Irving. James/Irving/Love are the guys who really control the game for the Cavs to the most part. The other 2 players can't completely suck but as long as leaving them completely open will hurt they are able to be effective in keeping James/Irving in 1v1 situations or forcing the other team to play a zone D which can potentially be gashed.

Also i am not saying basketball isn't a team based game and that unit cohesion is meaninglessness cause it is not but stars are the #1 factor in winning or losing in that league. This year the Warriors won 100% imo because their star power was greater. Last year no KD and they lost a close series (while under preforming admittedly) this year add in KD and the Cavs didn't really have a good shot and it was clear. I think that had to do with what KD brought as a star more than how he helped the team gel together.

For those who believe the Celtics have a good chance to represent the east the Cavs are currently 5/7 (meaning over 50%) to represent them while the Celtics are 4/11 (meaning a hair over 1/4th).

Put your money down on the Celtics if you believe they can beat the Cavs this year. Personally I will put my 100 on the Cavs and be happy with that 100 giving me a chance to win 50 more so or.

 

[patchick]

************ people...its bad enough we have one post about the Celtics in the football forum, now we have two. Why can't we just follow the rules and post **** in the correct forum.

Sorry, but in this deepest, deadest part of the offseason the only ways a football forum can avoid radio silence are by going off-topic or eating its own young. And we're running out of fresh young.

 

[Jackson 2]

I hope he does not get into an argument with Scal or Maxwell, then the long knives of sports talk radiowill come out to drive him out of town.. Boston Sports Media will be at its finest if you get on their bad side "forgettaboutit", they will rally the sheeple into believing what a bad player he is..

How true. Recently, I've been thinking about the David Price situation and I have thought for long time that he's far too thin-skinned to make it in this market. But, the high irony, to me, is the local media deriding him for being thin-skinned, when many of them are at least as hyper-sensitive to criticism as he is. Hell, I've pissed Lou Merloni off enough just by texting to the point where he called me some very, very bad names and cast aspersions on my late mother...

 

[MUFC7]

This signing doesn't change anything. Celtics still lack that bona fide MVP type superstar. I don't see one future HOF player on this team and tell me the last time a team without one made the finals.

They'll be contending for the next years but I don't believe you can win a championship when Horford, Hayward IT4 are your max players.

 

[borg]

The Warriors are the best team in the NBA, by some margin.

I'd love to know what you guys think, since I don't know many Basketball guys here in Brazil lol. Do you agree or disagree with that statement? (You can hit the buttons, no need to answer back)

Does "dominating on their way to a lopsided championship" translate differently in Brazil because I'm baffled why you need to verify if the Warriors are the best team by some margin.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes Irving is better than any player the Celtics have and it was by a pretty decent amount to be honest. Also I know the rosters of each team and the 12 on 12 argument doesn't really hold up well. If we are going there we will just need to agree to disagree. The game is played 5 on 5 with minimum minutes for backups in the playoffs. Also stars matter a lot as it is not like each player on the floor controls an equal 20% of the game for their team at any given time. It is also about who sees the ball the most. When James for instance is on the floor he may just be 1 of 5 players but he sees the ball way way more than 1 in 5 times. As does Irving. James/Irving/Love are the guys who really control the game for the Cavs to the most part. The other 2 players can't completely suck but as long as leaving them completely open will hurt they are able to be effective in keeping James/Irving in 1v1 situations or forcing the other team to play a zone D which can potentially be gashed.

Also i am not saying basketball isn't a team based game and that unit cohesion is meaninglessness cause it is not but stars are the #1 factor in winning or losing in that league. This year the Warriors won 100% imo because their star power was greater. Last year no KD and they lost a close series (while under preforming admittedly) this year add in KD and the Cavs didn't really have a good shot and it was clear. I think that had to do with what KD brought as a star more than how he helped the team gel together.

For those who believe the Celtics have a good chance to represent the east the Cavs are currently 5/7 (meaning over 50%) to represent them while the Celtics are 4/11 (meaning a hair over 1/4th).

Put your money down on the Celtics if you believe they can beat the Cavs this year. Personally I will put my 100 on the Cavs and be happy with that 100 giving me a chance to win 50 more so or.

If draymont green didn't get suspended last years finals would have looked just like this years.

 

[Jackson 2]

This signing doesn't change anything. Celtics still lack that bona fide MVP type superstar. I don't see one future HOF player on this team and tell me the last time a team without one made the finals.

They'll be contending for the next years but I don't believe you can win a championship when Horford, Hayward IT4 are your max players.

What makes you think those three will be their only good players going forward?

 

[Deus Irae]

Respectfully disagree, super stars aren't getting paid relative to their impact. Guys like LeBron, KD and Steph don't make nearly enough due to the max contract limit.

Curry just got more than $200 million in his deal. He's getting paid just fine.

Hard cap and no max contracts would produce a drastically different league. While you are right a few great players is huge, they wouldn't be able to easily fit two superstars like KD and Steph on one team and still have a deep team.

The NFL has a (theoretically) hard cap and no max contracts, yet it's basically the same as the NBA in this area. QBs are the highest paid position, yet they are still not paid commensurate with their impact. Again, just as with impact on the floor, the thing about basketball is the size of the rosters and the size of the "actual" rosters. That's where the differences come. It makes contract manipulation more difficult, because there are fewer contracts.

 

[BlacknGold77]

Yes Irving is better than any player the Celtics have and it was by a pretty decent amount to be honest. Also I know the rosters of each team and the 12 on 12 argument doesn't really hold up well. If we are going there we will just need to agree to disagree. The game is played 5 on 5 with minimum minutes for backups in the playoffs. Also stars matter a lot as it is not like each player on the floor controls an equal 20% of the game for their team at any given time. It is also about who sees the ball the most. When James for instance is on the floor he may just be 1 of 5 players but he sees the ball way way more than 1 in 5 times. As does Irving. James/Irving/Love are the guys who really control the game for the Cavs to the most part. The other 2 players can't completely suck but as long as leaving them completely open will hurt they are able to be effective in keeping James/Irving in 1v1 situations or forcing the other team to play a zone D which can potentially be gashed.

Also i am not saying basketball isn't a team based game and that unit cohesion is meaninglessness cause it is not but stars are the #1 factor in winning or losing in that league. This year the Warriors won 100% imo because their star power was greater. Last year no KD and they lost a close series (while under preforming admittedly) this year add in KD and the Cavs didn't really have a good shot and it was clear. I think that had to do with what KD brought as a star more than how he helped the team gel together.

For those who believe the Celtics have a good chance to represent the east the Cavs are currently 5/7 (meaning over 50%) to represent them while the Celtics are 4/11 (meaning a hair over 1/4th).

Put your money down on the Celtics if you believe they can beat the Cavs this year. Personally I will put my 100 on the Cavs and be happy with that 100 giving me a chance to win 50 more so or.

Ummm, no. Irving and Thomas are for all intents and purposes, equal...if anything Thomas is gets the slightest of edges

Thomas:

28.9 ppg
5.9 apg
2.7 rpg
46.3% fg/37.9% 3pt/90.9% ft
1.6 defensive win shares

Irving:

25.1 ppg
5.8 apg
3.2 rpg
47.3% fg/40.1% 3pt/90.5% ft
1.5 defensive win shares

Thomas outscores Irving, while Irving is the slightly better rebounder and shooter. BOTH are the walking definition of defensive liability.

One gets to get the easy match ups as he has the best player in the world getting the defensive attention....the other is the main focus of the opposing defense

 

[BlacknGold77]

This signing doesn't change anything. Celtics still lack that bona fide MVP type superstar. I don't see one future HOF player on this team and tell me the last time a team without one made the finals.

They'll be contending for the next years but I don't believe you can win a championship when Horford, Hayward IT4 are your max players.

Crap, the Celts traded Thomas?!

FYI, leading the league in 4th quarter scoring, being 3rd overall in ppg and finishing 5th in MVP voting = "MVP type superstar"

 

[BobDigital]

If draymont green didn't get suspended last years finals would have looked just like this years.

Forgot about that. There is a chance that is true.

 

[BobDigital]

Ummm, no. Irving and Thomas are for all intents and purposes, equal...if anything Thomas is gets the slightest of edges

Thomas:

28.9 ppg
5.9 apg
2.7 rpg
46.3% fg/37.9% 3pt/90.9% ft
1.6 defensive win shares

Irving:

25.1 ppg
5.8 apg
3.2 rpg
47.3% fg/40.1% 3pt/90.5% ft
1.5 defensive win shares

Thomas outscores Irving, while Irving is the slightly better rebounder and shooter. BOTH are the walking definition of defensive liability.

One gets to get the easy match ups as he has the best player in the world getting the defensive attention....the other is the main focus of the opposing defense

I would trade Thomas for Irving in a heartbeat. I say that liking what Thomas does.