Free Agent Signings around the League

[ATippett56]

How is that "vastly overrating" anyone? I told it like it was 100% from the original post.

None of this explains how it suddenly makes a player no good if they aren't kept by their original teams. By your thinking, Darrelle Revis isn't good, nor is Talib, nor is Welker, Danny Woodhead, or any other player who left their team in free agency.

Since when was Darrelle Revis ever an unrestricted free agent?

Why don't you just admit your ridiculous comment instead of continuing to try to move around it?

The two prior teams, that DRC was under contract, actions speak for themselves.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Talib is a better corner than DRC.

The question is whether Talib is worth as much, given his injury issues?

It is not clear who is more desirable to have on your 53.

I don't think DRC is better then Talib but he his better then whats on the roster now I also would love revis or alex mack or jared allen, just anyone that can have a day one impact on offense or defense will make me happy right now

 

[mgteich]

Normally, the player is traded subject to a physical.

I think that when we are talking about top players, they are usually part of the negotiations, since a renegotiated contract is usually what makes a trade work. For example, we might pay a 4th for Revis if we had a new contract already negotiated.

Obviously, TB is free to trade Revis to anyone. However, who would want Revis if he didn't want to come?

Im just guessing but if TB wants to trade him Im assuming the player being traded has to visit the other team that trading for him to pass a physical right?

 

[supafly]

DRC isn't the best, but he is an improvement over our current corners and is better than an unproven rookie via draft. I would have no issues with him being on the team, but in order to do that you must improve the SS or add another good corner to go with him.

Right. Like I said from the get go, he probably isn't a good fit due to his tackling issues, but at this point....

It should be noted that DRC was ranked higher than Talib in many of the expert rankings however.

Actually, on PFT's he almost cracked the top 10, coming in at #11 overall. Some are trying to act as if he sucks, and that's just untrue.

He has good coverage skills, as my stats showed--and that was the only point. I don't believe there was actually another CB who defended more passes in the last 2 year period with 36 total. I couldn't stand to continously hear about how horrible he was just due to the contact issue alone. We all heard the same about Asante Samuel just the same, especially from posters who supported Samuel, which is why I was surprised in the first place to hear the same logic being applied in an opposite sense now.

As you said, we'd need an adequate safety too, but that could be said with ANY CB that we brought in.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Im just guessing but if TB wants to trade him Im assuming the player being traded has to visit the other team that trading for him to pass a physical right?

sounds good to me

 

[SB39]

Im just guessing but if TB wants to trade him Im assuming the player being traded has to visit the other team that trading for him to pass a physical right?

I always thought the trade came first and passing the physical came later, with the contingency that the team can revoke the trade if the player fails the physical.

I would be very interested in reading precisely what Clayton is saying on the matter. I doubt they are doing a physical but, if the Bucs allow it, the Patriots can talk contract restructuring with Revis.

 

[VrabelJr]

Normally, the player is traded subject to a physical.

I think that when we are talking about top players, they are usually part of the negotiations, since a renegotiated contract is usually what makes a trade work. For example, we might pay a 4th for Revis if we had a new contract already negotiated.

Obviously, TB is free to trade Revis to anyone. However, who would want Revis if he didn't want to come?

The Raiders, Browns and Redskins do stupid things all the time.

 

[supafly]

Since when was Darrelle Revis ever an unrestricted free agent?

If his team traded him away, then by your logic he sucks since his original team no longer wanted him, right?

If you don't wish to include Revis then take him out. That still leaves ANY player who has ever left their team in free agency as meaning that they are suddenly no good now.

Again...instead of admitting your ridiculous logic and comment, you continue to try and change the subject. Now it's singling Revis out of the list.....

The two prior teams, that DRC was under contract, actions speak for themselves.

1) Okay, for the 3rd time now---it has been reported by Christopher Price and Vic Lombardi that DRC received a contract offer from Denver Monday night worth something in the range of Aqib Talib's, and when he turned it down they moved on.

How does that prove that he sucks? Or that they no longer wanted him?

2) DRC was ranked higher than many of the other CBs altogether, and came in as the 11th ranked free agent in PFT/NBC sports' top 100 free agent rankings.

Obviously, he doesn't "suck" half as bad as you are insinuating, which is exactly why I showed the stats to prove such.

All you do is keep spinning in circles. The bottom line is that he has fine coverage skills, yet doesn't like contact--much in the same vein as Asante Samuel was a few yrs ago. It hardly means that he's no good, even though I was the first one who pointed out that he wouldn't be a good fit on our specific team.

 

[mgteich]

We agree that one can waste money $10M at a time or $2M at a time. One can also win $10M at a time or $2M at a time. The issue is which strategy generally is better. More realistically, Belichick would rather sign three $3M players or two $4.5M players than one $9M player. Sometimes, there is little choice.

Let's be clear. Would you have paid Talib more than DEN to play for the patriots? I wouldn't. Talib is a part-time player.

Let's also be clear. I am not the king of the penny pinchers. I would be fine with paying Revis $12M a year AAV. There is nothing that would help the patriots more than Revis Island.
I am also fine with signing a DL or a SS (especially a DT) at $5M a year.

I also supported the very few times when the patriots signed top free agents. You gave good examples. I would note how few those were. It is not as if the patriots have even gone after 3-4 top players a year (or in the first 24 hours) as DEN has done. To me, these examples show that the patriots rarely sign top free agents from other teams (once a year seems normal).

Fourth, and as has been pointed out time, and time again, spending money stupidly on cheap players is still spending money stupidly. Pissing away $20 million will be pissing away $20 million, whether it's because one $20 million player busted, or because 20 $1 millon players busted.

Fifth, I'm fine with them signing Revis, although I'd have preferred spending a bit more money on a combo like Talib + Ward. I'll be laughing my ass off, frankly, when you, and the rest of the "frugal" BB wannabes celebrate such a signing, if he ends up making more money than Talib. And, if Revis does become a Patriot, and he signs for less, even better. I'm in a win/win with Revis in either scenario, because I haven't been crying about the cost of CBs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Today was a bad day for the Patriots, and it was a great day for the Broncos. The Patriots have clearly fallen behind the Broncos in the AFC talent race.

Today was not the end of the FA shopping spree, and the Patriots have not seen 2014 lost in one day.



The above statements are not mutually exclusive, and they are both reasonable responses to what happened today. There's no reason why people can't discuss the first without being barraged by the second, and vice versa.

 

[ATippett56]

If his team traded him away, then by your logic he sucks since his original team no longer wanted him, right?

No, that's your logic.

If you don't wish to include Revis then take him out. That still leaves ANY player who has ever left their team in free agency as meaning that they are suddenly no good now.

Maybe Revis' contract demands are so outrageous that no team wants to carry that high of salary cap hit on the books.

Again...instead of admitting your ridiculous logic and comment, you continue to try and change the subject. Now it's singling Revis out of the list.....

You are the one with a hard on for DRC, when two teams have already passed on DRC in unrestricted free agency.

1) Okay, for the 3rd time now---it has been reported by Christopher Price and Vic Lombardi that DRC received a contract offer from Denver Monday night worth something in the range of Aqib Talib's, and when he turned it down they moved on.

Yet you still have a hard on for DRC when you state that Talib's contract demands are ridiculous, then what does that say about DRC's contract demands?

How does that prove that he sucks? Or that they no longer wanted him?

Please quote me where I posted that DRC "sucks", when in fact I posted the word "overrated".

2) DRC was ranked higher than many of the other CBs altogether, and came in as the 11th ranked free agent in PFT/NBC sports' top 100 free agent rankings.

Obviously, he doesn't "suck" half as bad as you are insinuating, which is exactly why I showed the stats to prove such.

All you do is keep spinning in circles.

If DRC was that good, he would still be on the Philadelphia Eagles roster.

 

[supafly]

No, that's your logic.

Maybe Revis' contract demands are so outrageous that no team wants to carry that high of salary cap hit on the books.

You continue to claim that DRC is not good because he's played for multiple teams, and that if he were good the original team (in this case Denver) would have retained him. That is ridiculous, and the same examples could be said of ANY player who has moved on in free agency. It proves nothing...and you know it.

Plenty of players like Welker, Manning, Samuel, Law, etc have gone on to have fine careers when they left their original teams. In the salary cap era, free agents are going to leave their teams all of the time.

Just because a team refuses to pay them their contract demands doesn't mean that they are overrated or suddenly no good. Instead of admitting this, you continue to try moving the goalposts.

For the record, I also never claimed to have a hard on for DRC. I used statistics and facts to show that your analysis was flawed, and just because he was "soft" (as I admitted in my original post even before you commented) did not mean that he didn't have talent to offer another team.

 

[ATippett56]

You continue to claim that DRC is not good because he's played for multiple teams, and that if he were good the original team (in this case Denver) would have retained him. That is ridiculous, and the same examples could be said of ANY player who has moved on in free agency. It proves nothing...and you know it.

Plenty of players like Welker, Manning, Samuel, Law, etc have gone on to have fine careers when they left their original teams. In the salary cap era, free agents are going to leave their teams all of the time.

Just because a team refuses to pay them their contract demands doesn't mean that they are overrated or suddenly no good. Instead of admitting this, you continue to try moving the goalposts.

For the record, I also never claimed to have a hard on for DRC. I used statistics and facts to show that your analysis was flawed, and just because he was "soft" (as I admitted in my original post even before you commented) did not mean that he didn't have talent to offer another team.

I utilized the word "overrated", you utilize the phrase "not good".

It's obvious that the Eagles and Broncos don't agree with DRC's contract demands or his perceived market value, hence DRC is now once again an unrestricted free agent.

 

[Deus Irae]

We agree that one can waste money $10M at a time or $2M at a time. One can also win $10M at a time or $2M at a time. The issue is which strategy generally is better. More realistically, Belichick would rather sign three $3M players or two $4.5M players than one $9M player. Sometimes, there is little choice.

The numbers don't matter if they hit often enough. The numbers don't matter if they miss too often. The numbers only matter if they are working for you. The notion that Belichick's way is the right and only way is absurd, as we've seen proven every year since 2004. The bottom line is that the Patriots starting missing too often in the draft from 2006-2009, and they started missing too often in FA starting, probably, with the 2005 season. And, despite what you seemed to be implying, there is a vast middle area between shopping only at Walmart and shopping only on Rodeo drive.

Let's be clear. Would you have paid Talib more than DEN to play for the patriots? I wouldn't. Talib is a part-time player.

No, he's not. Talib is a full time player who apparently has a chronic hip issues that's bad enough to cost him some games, but not bad enough to keep him out of the NFL. It wasn't too bad for Belichick to pay him millions last year, that's for certain.

As for paying Talib, I'd have to know what other options were/are still available in order to give a definitive answer to that, but Talib was apparently paid market value for being a top 4 CB in this year's FA.

Let's also be clear. I am not the king of the penny pinchers. I would be fine with paying Revis $12M a year AAV. There is nothing that would help the patriots more than Revis Island.
I am also fine with signing a DL or a SS (especially a DT) at $5M a year.

You can't have it both ways. You're either fine with paying out the big bucks for a FA, or you're not. If you are, you've got no call to complain about people being pissed that Talib got away. If you aren't, you're probably going to be in for a long period of disappointment once Brady retires, one way or the other.

I also supported the very few times when the patriots signed top free agents. You gave good examples. I would note how few those were. It is not as if the patriots have even gone after 3-4 top players a year (or in the first 24 hours) as DEN has done. To me, these examples show that the patriots rarely sign top free agents from other teams (once a year seems normal).

One need not sign 50 big name free agents in order to improve the team. Avoiding paying market value to high end players in order to sign the Michael Jenkins's of the world is stupid resource management, though.

 

[supafly]

I utilized the word "overrated", you utilize the phrase "not good".

It's obvious that the Eagles and Broncos don't agree with DRC's contract demands or his perceived market value, hence DRC is now once again an unrestricted free agent.

I seriously don't know what this has to do with your prior suggestion that "if Denver had felt that DRC were any good, they would've signed him."

Again...instead of just admitting that there are many factors that go into someone staying on with their team in free agency, you're honestly going to just stay with your original thought that he must not be good.

 

[ATippett56]

I seriously don't know what this has to do with your prior suggestion that "if Denver had felt that DRC were any good, they would've signed him."

Again...instead of just admitting that there are many factors that go into someone staying on with their team in free agency, you're honestly going to just stay with your original thought that he must not be good.

DRC = overrated

 

[supafly]

DRC = overrated

You claimed that if he was any good, he'd have been retained by previous teams, and now you're once again going back on it realizing how silly it sounds.

It wasn't just "overrated," go back and re-read your comments.

Again, by just choosing to admit your seriously flawed logic, you'd gain a lot of respect.

You need to realize that there are many different factors that go into retaining a player in free agency, not just "DRC = doesn't really care," or suggesting that he's not any good because he didn't come to terms with a specific contract offer.

 

[ATippett56]

You claimed that if he was any good, he'd have been retained by previous teams, and now you're once again going back on it realizing how silly it sounds.

Refer to the quote below:

"If DRC was that good, he would still be on the Philadelphia Eagles roster."

It wasn't just "overrated," go back and re-read your comments.

Nope. Refer to the above.

Again, by just choosing to admit your seriously flawed logic, you'd gain a lot of respect.

No, you are the one stating DRC is "not good". There is a difference between "not good" and "overrated".

You need to realize that there are many different factors that go into retaining a player in free agency, not just "DRC = doesn't really care," or suggesting that he's not any good because he didn't come to terms with a specific contract offer.

"Doesn't Really Care" was a nicknamed coined for his play in the last year of his contract with the Eagles.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Thread is back on topic i see

 

[chasa]

after Talib(9+ a year) and Ward(6-7) a year i'm back to asking

How do the Broncos have any money left to add ware?

Also I'm going to love watching Gronk literally run over talib next year. maybe we SHOULD bring in steve smith and have him school talib as well.