Defense - old, slow, bad

[Fubby]

It'll be far more heartening (and logical) to me if the problems are more of philosophy than of simple talent.

It seems like we're seeing far too many players coming in and underwhelming - players who succeeded elsewhere. It used to be said, all the time, that BB puts players in the best positions to succeed, but I'm beginning to lose faith in that notion.

Just watched Bosa run a pretty stunt, using his speed and nice coordination with the DT, to crush Dak. Beautiful little stop, sidestep, and fly play - Winovich can do those, as can Uche.

I'm just not seeing them on the Pats of late, and particularly where the more athletic guys are sitting in favor of the more consistent, but older and slower, vets.

Sometimes it just comes down to athleticism. Particularly now, where the NFL is much more dynamic than it used to be.

If you can’t play 3 downs, you are basically dead to Bill

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

It'll be far more heartening (and logical) to me if the problems are more of philosophy than of simple talent.

Some of it is believe it or not but they tie into each other as they tend to do. Like you need the right players if you want to play this scheme. Also some other thoughts.

It seems like we're seeing far too many players coming in and underwhelming - players who succeeded elsewhere. It used to be said, all the time, that BB puts players in the best positions to succeed, but I'm beginning to lose faith in that notion.

Just watched Bosa run a pretty stunt, using his speed and nice coordination with the DT, to crush Dak. Beautiful little stop, sidestep, and fly play - Winovich can do those, as can Uche.

I'm just not seeing them on the Pats of late, and particularly where the more athletic guys are sitting in favor of the more consistent, but older and slower, vets.

Sometimes it just comes down to athleticism. Particularly now, where the NFL is much more dynamic than it used to be.

I'll definitely touch on this. It's super frustrating drafting these guys with top 75 picks, only to sit them. I'm assuming these were more Nick's picks than Bill but frustrating nonetheless.

I wrote a few post a few weeks ago that are really sticking out and think pertain to what we saw this year. I'll expand but think its relevant.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Some of it is believe it or not but they tie into each other as they tend to do. Like you need the right players if you want to play this scheme. Also some other thoughts.

I'll definitely touch on this. It's super frustrating drafting these guys with top 75 picks, only to sit them. I'm assuming these were more Nick's picks than Bill but frustrating nonetheless.

I hope this is not true because it wouldn’t look good on bill. If he wasn’t into Uche or wino bc he thinks after scouting he can’t use them , then I hope they give a **** about the personnel director because if the coaches are not confifent about using them more than situational back up rushers they should not use this kind of draft value. I suspect they thought they would learn the run defense stuff with gaining experience and getting stronger but it’s maybe not happening . I don’t understand that really because our pass rush did not get to the qb , they were killing us in the air and Allen running we were not able to stop this bc too slow. Uche as an spy for Allen could have been successful

I wrote a few post a few weeks ago that are really sticking out and think pertain to what we saw this year. I'll expand but think its relevant.

 

[Jlaff]

The offense is not built for shootouts. Bills scored 7 straight TD’s.

And the defence clearly isn't built to stop teams on 3rd down in the playoffs. Like even once per game, lol.

Oh wait, they did hold Trubisky to negative yards when he knelt out at the end of the game.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Gee, Stephon Gilmore should would have helped last night....a LOT. The Patriots really screwed up the handling of him....among other mistakes such as poor drafts.

 

[Sciz]

Gee, Stephon Gilmore should would have helped last night....a LOT. The Patriots really screwed up the handling of him....among other mistakes such as poor drafts.

He wasn't a full time player until week 14, and he got hurt again in week 16. One of those two full games was against the Bills, and he allowed two touchdowns.

So no, I don't think Gilmore was the issue here.

 

[ivanvamp]

Stop it.

The defense wasn't "bad"; it was Complete Garbage... And that had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the offense.

The defense wasn't "complete garbage". It was the worst performance basically in NFL history. They got zero stops. Buffalo scored a TD on every single possession they tried (i.e., not counting kneel downs). The Bills were 6-7 on third down all game long. The one "fail"? On the last kneel down of the game when it was 3rd and 12 and the had a -1 yard "run".

Over the course of the entire game, the Bills were forced to covert just SIX third downs. They got first downs without even breaking a sweat. Worst defensive performance ever. Not merely "complete garbage".

(I kid - I know you agree it was horrendous beyond belief...I'm just expanding on that point)

 

[ivanvamp]

Simple answer is they beat up on teams that weren't very good and then when they had to play actually good teams the last month (minus Jax, obviously) they got exposed and injuries caught up to them.

No defense is as bad as the Pats were last night. The Pats aren't even THIS bad. It's basically statistically impossible.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

1. Guy shouldn't be an every down lineman at this point, post-30.
2. Agreed - but I've said the same of Wino, Uche, and Jennings.
3. Sign or tag JCJ, but find a second guy - Wade? Leblanc? I like Mills and think he was a steal, but he's not at his best on the outside. I want him with the play in front of him.
4. Fingers crossed. I was hoping they'd get Zach Cunningham when he was waived. They need energy and violence - Vrabel grabbed him for exactly that reason.
5. Always the unicorn for the Patriots. I think they've got enough in the skill positions (draft a top WR early, to go with Bourne and Agholor and Meyers if he sticks around). If they found a way to get a number one, everyone behind that guy would get more opportunities.

Agreed

3. LeBlanc is a stop gap. He has bounced around the league because he is a #3 - #5 guy. Maybe he is better than Bryant, but that is not saying much. Wade was better in the slot at OSU, so I do not think he is the answer outside. Assuming JCJ is tagged, we need another outside CB IMO
4. Yes, if we got a true #1 WR somehow that would change a lot. But that is not easy to obtain.

 

[Schmo]

As some have said, we need to get bigger on the DL and faster at LB. I'm not a big college football fan, so I just started looking at draft prospects. Jordan Davis from Georgia (6'6" 340) 2 gapper, looks like a great complement to Barmore. Projected to be taken mid/late 1st.

It's pointless to get faster linebackers if we can't keep the OL off of them.

Obviously, we also need another outside CB whether we keep jc or not.

 

[ivanvamp]

As some have said, we need to get bigger on the DL and faster at LB. I'm not a big college football fan, so I just started looking at draft prospects. Jordan Davis from Georgia (6'6" 340) 2 gapper, looks like a great complement to Barmore. Projected to be taken mid/late 1st.

It's pointless to get faster linebackers if we can't keep the OL off of them.

Obviously, we also need another outside CB whether we keep jc or not.

Well if you don't keep JC, then you need TWO good outside CBs.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think Jackson is gone. Too many needs on both sides to pay him.

Some are going be upset with that but I think some of BB's Drafts such as the one for Slowquan force this move. Like you said this Team have too many holes to back up the brinks Truck for Jackson.

 

[*ChungFu*]

The pregame meal of edibles was not a good idea.

 

[borg]

Winovich is obviously in the Belichick doghouse. Does anyone know why?

Team is petrified putting either Wino or Uche on the field in run situations....and because this team falls behind too often, opponents are less compelled to pass thereby neutering light in the britches Patriots pass-rush specialists who get blown up vs the run

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

As some have said, we need to get bigger on the DL and faster at LB. I'm not a big college football fan, so I just started looking at draft prospects. Jordan Davis from Georgia (6'6" 340) 2 gapper, looks like a great complement to Barmore. Projected to be taken mid/late 1st.

It's pointless to get faster linebackers if we can't keep the OL off of them.

Obviously, we also need another outside CB whether we keep jc or not.

I agree with this. DL has to be the first priority to 1) stop the incessant 4 and 5 yard 1st down runs between the tackles, 2) keep the opposing OL off our LBs. And an outside CB as well. We have a bunch of slot guys. And then cross our fingers that McMillan, McGrone, and Perkins can add the needed speed.

 

[pats_premi]

Too many old players on defense, they wear down as the season progresses.
Beef up the DL to protect the LB’s
Replace big and slow LB with small/fast ones (Uche, mcgrone)
acquire CB’s that can play man coverage on 3rd down.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Gee, Stephon Gilmore should would have helped last night....a LOT. The Patriots really screwed up the handling of him....among other mistakes such as poor drafts.

That is on BB

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That is on BB

What is on BB? Gilmore was not good in Carolina. He was great in 2019, good in 2020, barely played in 2021. Only played like 2 full games in 2021 and was reinjured week 16 so he ended the season "out" for week 17. A lot of good he would have done sitting on the bench.

It was a great move by BB to trade Gilmore and recover $6M+ in cap space for someone sitting on the bench.

Do you want to resign him for 2022? Did not think so.

 

[Schmo]

I agree with this. DL has to be the first priority to 1) stop the incessant 4 and 5 yard 1st down runs between the tackles, 2) keep the opposing OL off our LBs. And an outside CB as well. We have a bunch of slot guys. And then cross our fingers that McMillan, McGrone, and Perkins can add the needed speed.

While our entire defense looked like crap, a single dominant DT has the best chance of creating a ripple effect making everyone else better.

Stopping the run, creating obvious passing downs, eating up blockers, allowing the guys we already have to get more pressure, corners don't have to cover as long.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Pats need upgrades on the defense, yes.

1. A stout run stuffing two-gap NT. Fortunately those can be had in middle rounds if the scouting is good. Big man who can move and are stout at the point of attack, I know they are somewhat rare. But pure run stuffers are generally not as in high demand as pass rushing DTs. We got that type already in Barmore. Now we need the big stout 'Ted Washington' type to complete the DL.

2. A sideline to sideline linebacker who can shut down wide runs and occasionally cover passing lanes inside the hashmarks. It's time for BB to leave the 2000's and realize that you really need a specialist speedy linebacker even if the guy is only 230 lbs sopping wet. Yes I know he loves the lumbering 250-260 lb linebackers, but they just aren't quick enough to fill that niche role to defend against modern offenses where the TEs really are nearly as dangerous as the wide receivers, and the runningbacks are often asked to catch out of the backfield or can burn you badly with just one big cut and run.

3. Any upgrade over Joejuan 'brainfreeze' Williams. Another of BB's failed experiments. JJW is too slow and indecisive to play outside corner. He'll get burned by speed every time. Color me just as unimpressed by Jalen "I got Overpaid just to get Burned' Mills. Offenses aren't dumb, if there's a weak link, they'll attack it instead of passing the ball into harms way against our #1 CB.

4. Last but not least, BB needs to resign JC Jackson. Dude is a stud and just entering his prime years. I don't think you'll find a better free agent replacement on the market this year. I don't see any Gilmore 2.0s waiting to be picked up. I shudder to think just how BAD our defense will become if either JJ Williams or Jalen Mills are forced to play a #1 CB role.