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moosekill

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Why?
He’s been here 3 years and done nothing.
The last 2 seasons he has carried the ball 29 times for 46 yards and caught 5 passes for 16.
Last year he had 10 carries totaling 9 yards and the longest of all of them was 5 yards.
He lacks vision and goes down too easily.
And can't block.
 

goheels22002

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To be able to return from IR, a player has to remain on the roster at 4:00 today and then can go on IR after that. Any claims at noon today will come at the cost of somebody on the roster, not via IRing Reiff/Thornton.
Yeah. The new rule is that each team can have eight short-term IR players - 8! That can include IR guys and non-football injury reserve players. Plus you can have 16 practice squad players with a variety of service times. That's 24 players plus the 53 on the active roster. The IR players are protected from other teams while the PS guys are poachable. (This also says a lot about the value of a larger flexible cap number going into week one.) Also, teams can elevate a player three times from the Practice Squad per season. It's like baseball now. PS guys can get spot elevations to the 53 for specific opponents.

We need to adjust our thinking to 77 players thanks to the expanded Covid-19 and 17-game schedule rules.

It's interesting to see the pearl-clutching throughout the threads about the 16-player Practice Squad 11 days ahead of the opener. That makes the 53-player active roster very fluid come each week. The Patriots can load up the PS with guys who can be called up to the 53, and even then, they get to decide the six in-actives on game day. The players on the margins of the 53 at most positions become more valuable under these rules (and worth paying to stick around with modest contracts.

If I were in that front office, I'm watching what the other teams are doing with their PS like a hawk.

Clearly, the Patriots are 1) set on defense, 2) focused on the Offensive Line, 3) still running auditions for the #3 and #4 RB position (lots of interesting options out there on other practice squads and free agents), and 4) going to take full advantage of the 8- player short-term IR rule.

If we look at averages in terms of the typical Patriots active roster, we'll end up with 9 OL, 2 QBs, 4 RBs, 2 TEs (with another on PS) and 6 WRs.
I'm unsure how important that is any more.
 

goheels22002

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decent late complementary blocking TE option . that will be dearly needed on the right side


I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again. It's a 77-man roster: 53 active players - 16 Practice Squad - 8 IR/Non-Football Reserve that can be activated later in the season.

The 17-game schedule and lingering Covid-19 rules expanded the roster designations and need for more salary cap flexibility for every team.
 

Patsgofor4

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decent late complementary blocking TE option . that will be dearly needed on the right side



Some tight ends play more of a pass-catching role, but Brown has been known as a blocker. Brown, listed at 6-6, 258 pounds, said in 2022 he lost 18 pounds because blocking tight ends get paid the league minimum.

Hopefully, he has put that weight back on.
 

n6249c

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Some tight ends play more of a pass-catching role, but Brown has been known as a blocker. Brown, listed at 6-6, 258 pounds, said in 2022 he lost 18 pounds because blocking tight ends get paid the league minimum.

Hopefully, he has put that weight back on.
If they need a heavy TE they’ve got Wheatley. I hope the Pharaoh turns into a well rounded TE catching passes as well.
 

RobertWeathers

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If they need a heavy TE they’ve got Wheatley. I hope the Pharaoh turns into a well rounded TE catching passes as well.
I'm actually pretty psyched about the Pharaoh pickup. Not glamorous and hes slightly above JAG status but he can block and serve as a decent check down.
 

Thelonious

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A lot of talk over the past couple years about getting more speed, "explosiveness" on the team. I see some of that (the mix of safeties. LB's, for example) on defense. I see none of it on offense, yet league-wide it is the increased speed on offenses (and the rules changes which reward such players) which has driven the "need for speed" approach. Not a big deal, probably, but another perspective on just how...irresponsible...the team - well, Bill - has been in fashioning the offense. I suppose you could say there is more speed in the tight end room, though I think an equally valid take would be to express dismay that we have a tight end room in which no one can block, making for wretched synergy with a dismal O-line. The offense - offer all the pollyannish hopes you like, repose whatever hope you like in the fact the team is rummaging through cast-offs as we speak - blows.
 

mike_usagisan

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A lot of talk over the past couple years about getting more speed, "explosiveness" on the team. I see some of that (the mix of safeties. LB's, for example) on defense. I see none of it on offense, yet league-wide it is the increased speed on offenses (and the rules changes which reward such players) which has driven the "need for speed" approach. Not a big deal, probably, but another perspective on just how...irresponsible...the team - well, Bill - has been in fashioning the offense. I suppose you could say there is more speed in the tight end room, though I think an equally valid take would be to express dismay that we have a tight end room in which no one can block, making for wretched synergy with a dismal O-line. The offense - offer all the pollyannish hopes you like, repose whatever hope you like in the fact the team is rummaging through cast-offs as we speak - blows.
This isn't directed at you, but you talking about speed reminded me of something I've noticed. Every year, people talk about the need for speed on offense. And every year, a team or two signs track stars with blazing speed. And for a while, fans salivate over seeing the track stars blow by coverages. And then they find out the track stars can't cut or catch or run routes or whatever. And then those track stars get cut or go on IR or are out of the league pretty quick. I don't think speed is really the answer. I think it's being quick, like we're seeing with DeMario Douglas this year. It's being able to create separation.
 

JarOfMayo51

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A lot of talk over the past couple years about getting more speed, "explosiveness" on the team. I see some of that (the mix of safeties. LB's, for example) on defense. I see none of it on offense, yet league-wide it is the increased speed on offenses (and the rules changes which reward such players) which has driven the "need for speed" approach. Not a big deal, probably, but another perspective on just how...irresponsible...the team - well, Bill - has been in fashioning the offense. I suppose you could say there is more speed in the tight end room, though I think an equally valid take would be to express dismay that we have a tight end room in which no one can block, making for wretched synergy with a dismal O-line. The offense - offer all the pollyannish hopes you like, repose whatever hope you like in the fact the team is rummaging through cast-offs as we speak - blows.

he attempted to add speed last year with Thornton, Pierre Strong and Marcus Jones

unfortunately thornton has been having injury issues and they just traded Strong for an OT
 

Sicilian

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This isn't directed at you, but you talking about speed reminded me of something I've noticed. Every year, people talk about the need for speed on offense. And every year, a team or two signs track stars with blazing speed. And for a while, fans salivate over seeing the track stars blow by coverages. And then they find out the track stars can't cut or catch or run routes or whatever. And then those track stars get cut or go on IR or are out of the league pretty quick. I don't think speed is really the answer. I think it's being quick, like we're seeing with DeMario Douglas this year. It's being able to create separation.

I think the term "speed" gets thrown around a lot, but people often mean different things when they say it.

There's straight line speed, just how fast you can go from A to B.

There's short area quickness, like Welker, Edelman, etc had.

There's mental speed, which can make players LOOK faster because they're playing more decisively. I would put someone like Damien Harris in that category, because he just knew how to recognize a hole and hit it, which made him appear quicker to accelerate than he probably was.

Then there's things like technique and route running which can create bursts of separation, which again creates this appearance of speed. That was the thing (other than health) that I thought Thornton would have to keep working on. We know he had the straight line speed, but if he can't release off the line it doesn't really matter. It's too bad he keeps getting hurt because that's not helping him show improvement there yet.

All this long-winded nonsense to say: There are more ways to get "faster" on offense than just drafting guys with good 40 times. Hell, I would count Bourne as fast, even though no one will mistake him for a Tyreek Hill style burner.
 

jdlboot14

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I just thought of a good comp for Boutte - Kenbrell Thompkins !
In 2013 Thompkins came in as an UDFA, way under the radar after Dobson drafted in the 2nd round, and Boyce in the 4th.
But, Thompkins outplayed both of them, and became a decent, clutch guy that year.
He and Boutte have a similar physique and playing style IMO. I just hope KB can last longer than KT.
 

Thelonious

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This isn't directed at you, but you talking about speed reminded me of something I've noticed. Every year, people talk about the need for speed on offense. And every year, a team or two signs track stars with blazing speed. And for a while, fans salivate over seeing the track stars blow by coverages. And then they find out the track stars can't cut or catch or run routes or whatever. And then those track stars get cut or go on IR or are out of the league pretty quick. I don't think speed is really the answer. I think it's being quick, like we're seeing with DeMario Douglas this year. It's being able to create separation.
I guess I thought it goes without saying I was referring to speedy football players, since speed, though a valuable commodity as the game has evolved, is obviously not the only criterion for drafting people. The record of adapting track guys to NFL play is pretty dismal. My only intention was to consider in a slightly different light the baffling asymmetry in allocation of resources offense-vs-defense, the resource in this case being speed. The matter is usually discussed straight up in terms of the draft positions of player selected on the two sides of the ball, not so much in terms of the specific attributes of those players. So I welcome your clarification, absolutely.
 

mike_usagisan

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I guess I thought it goes without saying I was referring to speedy football players, since speed, though a valuable commodity as the game has evolved, is obviously not the only criterion for drafting people. The record of adapting track guys to NFL play is pretty dismal. My only intention was to consider in a slightly different light the baffling asymmetry in allocation of resources offense-vs-defense, the resource in this case being speed. The matter is usually discussed straight up in terms of the draft positions of player selected on the two sides of the ball, not so much in terms of the specific attributes of those players. So I welcome your clarification, absolutely.
Oh sure. it was just something I noticed because another team had a track guy in for their camp and just cut him. I meant to bring it up because it reminded me when we brought some track guy into camp years ago.

But yeah, I think they addressed it in the draft through DeMario, who has great quickness and seems like he has the potential to break out. They also have Thorton as the blazing fast WR. And the top of the draft went defense, so we weren't getting anyone else and the bigger problems were on Oline.

I don't know. Maybe it's not as a big a worry for me.
 

Thelonious

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I think the term "speed" gets thrown around a lot, but people often mean different things when they say it.

There's straight line speed, just how fast you can go from A to B.

There's short area quickness, like Welker, Edelman, etc had.

There's mental speed, which can make players LOOK faster because they're playing more decisively. I would put someone like Damien Harris in that category, because he just knew how to recognize a hole and hit it, which made him appear quicker to accelerate than he probably was.

Then there's things like technique and route running which can create bursts of separation, which again creates this appearance of speed. That was the thing (other than health) that I thought Thornton would have to keep working on. We know he had the straight line speed, but if he can't release off the line it doesn't really matter. It's too bad he keeps getting hurt because that's not helping him show improvement there yet.

All this long-winded nonsense to say: There are more ways to get "faster" on offense than just drafting guys with good 40 times. Hell, I would count Bourne as fast, even though no one will mistake him for a Tyreek Hill style burner.
I agree with all of this, but I don't feel compelled by that agreement to sign on the the proposition that we have in line with any of the various senses of "speed on offense" an offense which is impressive, or even average, with respect to speed. The younger players will not have the speed of decision-making, the oldsters are just plain physically slow, the two featured backs at this point are more notable for their power than for their speed, the quarterback is on the pokey side, and so on. Pop aside, I don't see much "quickness" either. It's a slow offense, I'd say, however you parse the term.
 

Thelonious

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Oh sure. it was just something I noticed because another team had a track guy in for their camp and just cut him. I meant to bring it up because it reminded me when we brought some track guy into camp years ago.

But yeah, I think they addressed it in the draft through DeMario, who has great quickness and seems like he has the potential to break out. They also have Thorton as the blazing fast WR. And the top of the draft went defense, so we weren't getting anyone else and the bigger problems were on Oline.

I don't know. Maybe it's not as a big a worry for me.
Fair enough. Maybe it's the phase of the moon or general curmudgeonliness, but I have been running a bit pessimistic lately. I probably should just buy another guitar. That always perks me up.
 

mike_usagisan

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Fair enough. Maybe it's the phase of the moon or general curmudgeonliness, but I have been running a bit pessimistic lately. I probably should just buy another guitar. That always perks me up.
Being a Pats fan brings the full range of moods and emotions, much to my wife's consternation!

I'm mostly excited right now, but this could be a really challenging season, even before we start dealing with more injuries.
 

FCB02062

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he attempted to add speed last year with Thornton, Pierre Strong and Marcus Jones

unfortunately thornton has been having injury issues and they just traded Strong for an OT
and he attempted to add the wrong players
 


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