Cap Arithmetic And Plan For Defense

[Ring 6]

In fact it's easier for a quick smaller ILB to fill holes and take on G's going straight ahead than trying to set the edge while tons of beef are headed right for you going wide. There have been a LOT of small but quick ILB's who have had a lot of success doing that LDavid, and DWhite come to mind currently, the kid from the Bills and even the Logan kid from Cincy. There was also the great Miami ILB whose name escapes me at the moment.

Of course you have to develop instincts that only comes from reps and seeing things happen very fast. I transitioned from being a wide tackle 6 DT to oakie NT to ILB to 4-3 OLB to SS while in college and after. I got to see the game from a LOT of positions and EVERY adjustment took time and reps. In fact the toughest one was from OLB to SS, though ultimately it might have been my most natural position.

I'm not saying Uche can definitely make that transition, but he doesn't seem to be making any strong inroads playing outside either in impact or snap numbers, so why not take a chance there is nothing to lose at this point. He certainly has the athletic skills. Bruschi transitioned from an undersized DE to OLB to ILB where he made his greatest impact over his career here. Besides we have Wino, Perkins, KVN and Judon to play outside as of this moment. All of whom have been more effective than Uche outside, So why not take a shot and see what he can do. Even if you only use him in passing situations to cover or blitz you'd get more out of him than the are getting now.

We can’t afford a guy who can’t take on a G in a nickel base. With Hightower who may have been the best I’ve seen at it, it wasnt easy.
Some smaller LBs can be effective but most are in a scheme where the dl keeps them clean. I don’t see uche as that guy.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

In fact it's easier for a quick smaller ILB to fill holes and take on G's going straight ahead than trying to set the edge while tons of beef are headed right for you going wide. There have been a LOT of small but quick ILB's who have had a lot of success doing that LDavid, and DWhite come to mind currently, the kid from the Bills and even the Logan kid from Cincy. There was also the great Miami ILB whose name escapes me at the moment.

Zach Thomas

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

How many defensive linemen can we reasonably draft given the numbers we currently have under contract on the defensive line?

I can see us drafting a couple. Don’t think itll be an issue as i think most dl other than barmore/godchaux/wise could be pretty simple to cut ties with

 

[Ring 6]

In fact it's easier for a quick smaller ILB to fill holes and take on G's going straight ahead than trying to set the edge while tons of beef are headed right for you going wide. There have been a LOT of small but quick ILB's who have had a lot of success doing that LDavid, and DWhite come to mind currently, the kid from the Bills and even the Logan kid from Cincy. There was also the great Miami ILB whose name escapes me at the moment.

Of course you have to develop instincts that only comes from reps and seeing things happen very fast. I transitioned from being a wide tackle 6 DT to oakie NT to ILB to 4-3 OLB to SS while in college and after. I got to see the game from a LOT of positions and EVERY adjustment took time and reps. In fact the toughest one was from OLB to SS, though ultimately it might have been my most natural position.

I'm not saying Uche can definitely make that transition, but he doesn't seem to be making any strong inroads playing outside either in impact or snap numbers, so why not take a chance there is nothing to lose at this point. He certainly has the athletic skills. Bruschi transitioned from an undersized DE to OLB to ILB where he made his greatest impact over his career here. Besides we have Wino, Perkins, KVN and Judon to play outside as of this moment. All of whom have been more effective than Uche outside, So why not take a shot and see what he can do. Even if you only use him in passing situations to cover or blitz you'd get more out of him than the are getting now.

We can’t afford a guy who can’t take on a G in a nickel base. With Hightower who may have been the best I’ve seen at it, it wasnt easy.
Some smaller LBs can be effective but most are in a scheme where the dl keeps them clean. I don’t see uche as that guy.

 

[Ring 6]

I can see us drafting a couple. Don’t think itll be an issue as i think most dl other than barmore/godchaux/wise could be pretty simple to cut ties with

But depth is important especially at that position.
Replacing veterans with late round rookies at DT is a shaky move because the jump from college stud to NFL is big enough, and a late round pick has a long way to go to be effective at that position. Technique is critical and most draftable guys got by in college by being physically superior to the guy blocking them and that won’t be the case at the next level.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

But depth is important especially at that position.
Replacing veterans with late round rookies at DT is a shaky move because the jump from college stud to NFL is big enough, and a late round pick has a long way to go to be effective at that position. Technique is critical and most draftable guys got by in college by being physically superior to the guy blocking them and that won’t be the case at the next level.

If its a late round pick they’re probably unlikely to unseat any proven vets. Unless they overperform significantly which is a good thing.

 

[mgteich]

If its a late round pick they’re probably unlikely to unseat any proven vets. Unless they overperform significantly which is a good thing.

agreed

Someone drafted in the first 4 rounds will make the 53. IMO, it is unlkely that a DT would be drafted in the 4th. That is the place for a RB or an OL, both of which are needs.

 

[Hyped]

From Miguel:

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No. That’s not how it works.

In a way it is, though: if you sign a player to a salary higher than the 51st highest, that salary drops off the cap.

Right now, that player is Shaun Wade[*] at $825K. So if/when they sign someone to a larger contract, his salary drops off the cap.

[*]There are three players tied at $825K.

 

[venecol]

In a way it is, though: if you sign a player to a salary higher than the 51st highest, that salary drops off the cap.

Right now, that player is Shaun Wade[*] at $825K. So if/when they sign someone to a larger contract, his salary drops off the cap.

[*]There are three players tied at $825K.

Agree. The cap savings of a cut player can be used on other players that would push the bottom out of the top 51. That would only apply if you don't reuse the saved cap $$.

 

[NormZauchin]

Zach Thomas

I recall another small, but very good, Miami interior linebacker named Nick Buoniconti.

 

[DaBruinz]

Sorry P, but Davis is going to go a lot higher than 21 and in the off chance he starts to slip Davis is NOT getting past the Chargers who pick at 17. They had about the worst run defense in the league and DESPERATELY need interior DL help. On the other hand there are a few DL picks who WILL be there in round 2. That's why I think the Pats will try and trade down to add a 2nd round 2 pick some where in the 30's. If I recall correctly trading down from 21 "should" get us a pick in the 30's plus and extra third round pick at least. That way we can get an solid prospects DT and LB in the 2nd and an CB and WR prospects in the 3rd

As to the off season we will likely see a completely new LB group. The only guy I'd bring back is KVN and go with Uche, McGrone, McMillan Perkins and the draft pick as our main grouping. I'd really like to see Uche get some run as an ILB in preseason. I think he has the speed and athleticism to excel and he'd only have to add about 10lbs of muscle this off season to get to 235. His burst would make him a threat to blitz and still run with athletic QB's. A combination of Uche with McGrone and McMillan would add a LOT of speed to our ILB group even before we draft another one.

I don't know if Jackson will be back. It's a question that hopefully WILL be answered by the end of April when we draft. Jones will be coming back. Players come and go that is the nature of the game and the market is the market. We shall see how it plays out. We all have seen examples of guys you felt sure would go stay and visa versa..

Ken - People swore up and down that Vince Wilfork was going top 10. Where was he drafted? #21 by the Patriots. And there were teams ahead of the Patriots in 2004 that needed help on the IDL. So, one can never say never. Yes, the Chargers need IDL help, but they need help at LB as well. So, if they had a choice between Floyd and Davis, can you honestly say they'd take DAVIS over him? I can't. There are always surprise players who slip and players who climb. You just can't ever be certain. Especially with a draft where there is very little highly rated QB talent and the RB talent is stronger in the mid-rounds than high.

I wouldn't bring back KVN. I don't think he respects Mayo and Steve B. His play during the beginning of the season and the end of the season seem to show that.

 

[DaBruinz]

I recall another small, but very good, Miami interior linebacker named Nick Buoniconti.

He started off as a Patriots linebacker.

 

[mgteich]

Ken - People swore up and down that Vince Wilfork was going top 10. Where was he drafted? #21 by the Patriots. And there were teams ahead of the Patriots in 2004 that needed help on the IDL. So, one can never say never. Yes, the Chargers need IDL help, but they need help at LB as well. So, if they had a choice between Floyd and Davis, can you honestly say they'd take DAVIS over him? I can't. There are always surprise players who slip and players who climb. You just can't ever be certain. Especially with a draft where there is very little highly rated QB talent and the RB talent is stronger in the mid-rounds than high.

I wouldn't bring back KVN. I don't think he respects Mayo and Steve B. His play during the beginning of the season and the end of the season seem to show that.

I agree that a blue chip DT or LB might be available at 21, or perhaps with a small trade up.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I recall another small, but very good, Miami interior linebacker named Nick Buoniconti.

Agreed. But I assumed @patfanken was referring to guys still alive. Maybe I was wrong in that assumption. Buoniconti would be 82 this year, if still vertical. How old is Norm? Hahahahahahahaha

 

[NormZauchin]

Agreed. But I assumed @patfanken was referring to guys still alive. Maybe I was wrong in that assumption. Buoniconti would be 82 this year, if still vertical. How old is Norm? Hahahahahahahaha

Not as old as Nick would be if he were still alive, but old enough to remember his time with the Pats. Both he and I were Springfield natives.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I agree that a blue chip DT or LB might be available at 21, or perhaps with a small trade up.

I hope that the Pats will make a small trade down for an extra round 3 or 4 pick.

 

[ashley]

 

[jdlboot14]

Tavai was a Matty P move mid-season, he's not an actual Defensive player - maybe ST, but should not be back.
Langi is outside bubble, but I like him. Same for Collins, in his role, his lost step is everything.
Wino came with such hype, but he's too light for the only thing he can do - time to go
Jennings was part of the dartboard LB philosophy, to grab a bunch and see what sticks - he hasn't
Perkins, Uche, McMillan deserve another shot and could all end up quite productive. We'll see.
Bentley deserves a shot at taking over for HT. KVN should stay too.
I expect a Vet FA, and/or top 3 round draft pick to be LB

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Tavai was a Matty P move mid-season, he's not an actual Defensive player - maybe ST, but should not be back.
Langi is outside bubble, but I like him. Same for Collins, in his role, his lost step is everything.
Wino came with such hype, but he's too light for the only thing he can do - time to go
Jennings was part of the dartboard LB philosophy, to grab a bunch and see what sticks - he hasn't
Perkins, Uche, McMillan deserve another shot and could all end up quite productive. We'll see.
Bentley deserves a shot at taking over for HT. KVN should stay too.
I expect a Vet FA, and/or top 3 round draft pick to be LB

Nice overview. You forgot McGrone - the Pats pulled him off IR in December to practice with the team - not sure what that means.