BB loves him some Cam Newton

[Pats1971]

People have retconned Brady’s 2001 season to him being some sidecar and not someone who led multiple game winning drives with his arm at the end of games.

Weird, isnt it.

 

[jmt57]

He only paid Cam one million dollars last year and had a second year player in Stidham who we all thought was our next QB and he never started him. The chances of Jones starting as a rookie are pretty much nil.

The fact that some people on this forum thought one way (believing that Stidham was going to start, or was supposedly the long term plan at QB) has nothing to do with what the coaching staff thought.

I'm not sure what the first sentence has to do with the second sentence; I don't follow the correlation.
Jones starting or not starting has nothing to do with Stidham.
Jones starting or not starting has little to do with his being a rookie.
Jones starting or not starting has everything to do with how quickly he progresses.
Jones starting or not starting will also, to a lesser degree, depend on whether or not Newton progresses.

Stidham never getting a single start, even at the end of the season, speaks volumes about his lack of progress.

There are plenty of NFL quarterbacks that start as rookies.
Yes, QB is a far more unforgiving position, but there are also plenty of other rookies that Belichick has started over the years.

 

[amfootball]

The fact that some people on this forum thought one way (believing that Stidham was going to start, or was supposedly the long term plan at QB) has nothing to do with what the coaching staff thought.

I'm not sure what the first sentence has to do with the second sentence; I don't follow the correlation.
Jones starting or not starting has nothing to do with Stidham.
Jones starting or not starting has little to do with his being a rookie.
Jones starting or not starting has everything to do with how quickly he progresses.
Jones starting or not starting will also, to a lesser degree, depend on whether or not Newton progresses.

Stidham never getting a single start, even at the end of the season, speaks volumes about his lack of progress.

There are plenty of NFL quarterbacks that start as rookies.
Yes, QB is a far more unforgiving position, but there are also plenty of other rookies that Belichick has started over the years.

Stidham had a pretty solid rookie year from all reports. He impressed in camp and during the preseason. He obviously did not play because we had Brady. Last year due to Covid, there was no off-season but the Pats did not draft a QB so the consensus was that Stidham would be our starter. That was the belief until we signed Cam on June 28. It's possible that during the time of the draft until June 28, Stidham failed to show the staff enough that he would be the starter. And as bad as Cam played, Bill still thought Cam was better than the Stidham. The correlation is, Stidham was a second year player who never got a start after having a pretty solid rookie year. The chances of Jones being able to do enough to get a start this year with the complexity of our offense and Cam's veteran knowledge of the position means there is no chance we see Jones. Bill's bar for Cam is extremely high compared to rookie which is why right after we drafted Jones, he said Jones had a lot to learn and needed to compete with Stidham first before Cam. It is doubtful he even beats out Stid for the back-up given we are looking at another shortened off-season and Stidham being in his third year. So, it is Cam for this entire year unless he gets hurt.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The Dolphins will be better than last year offensively in my opinion and something tells me that Flores will not let Cam surprise him twice.

To bad that the excellent offseason that Bill had will be destroyed by his blinding love for Cam.

Something tells me the Pats won't let the Dolphins rush for 250 yards in a single game this season.

 

[amfootball]

Something tells me the Pats won't let the Dolphins rush for 250 yards in a single game this season.

Not sure they will need to. They will be ready for Cam as will every other team we play. It is going to be a long season with him as our starter.

 

[DarrylS]

Question the article with no actual quotes from BB, instead hearsay relied upon by Chiari..

All functions of bored, idle press who need folks to click on their articles which somehow becomes financial remuneration..

It sounds like a lot of BS to me, if Mac Jones comes into camp and blows the doors off everyone and exceeds expectations, BB will do what is best for the team..

 

[sb1]

The fact that some people on this forum thought one way (believing that Stidham was going to start, or was supposedly the long term plan at QB) has nothing to do with what the coaching staff thought.

I'm not sure what the first sentence has to do with the second sentence; I don't follow the correlation.
Jones starting or not starting has nothing to do with Stidham.
Jones starting or not starting has little to do with his being a rookie.
Jones starting or not starting has everything to do with how quickly he progresses.
Jones starting or not starting will also, to a lesser degree, depend on whether or not Newton progresses.

Stidham never getting a single start, even at the end of the season, speaks volumes about his lack of progress.

There are plenty of NFL quarterbacks that start as rookies.
Yes, QB is a far more unforgiving position, but there are also plenty of other rookies that Belichick has started over the years.

Agreed re Stidham's progress. Even after Cam was signed Stidham couldn't even win the backup QB2 position from Brian Hoyer. The one and only reason why Stidham moved up to QB2 later is Hoyer vomiting all over himself in the Chiefs game.

Rookies with any promise should show progression from year 1 to 2. Stidham regressed. I didn't need to see a guy like that play the last two games of 2020. There was not one thing I saw from Stidham last year in any of his games that made me think Bill is preventing a legit NFL QB from getting playing time. Mac is very likely already a better QB than Stidham and I expect him to win the backup job easily over Stid and hopefully he can put Cam on the bench not long after that when Bill sees the obvious and does the right thing - regardless of his pom pom waving for Cam right now.

 

[amfootball]

Mac is very likely already a better QB than Stidham and I expect him to win the backup job easily over Stid and hopefully he can put Cam on the bench not long after that when Bill sees the obvious and does the right thing.

This statement is stunning to me. Stidham may not be a starting caliber QB but he is not a scrub. He will be in his third year and it will not be easy by any stretch for Jones to beat him out. I truly hope he does but saying it will be easy is to completely gloss over how difficult it is for rookie QBs to learn the NFL game and on top our complex offense.

 

[sb1]

This statement is stunning to me. Stidham may not be a starting caliber QB but he is not a scrub. He will be in his third year and it will not be easy by any stretch for Jones to beat him out. I truly hope he does but saying it will be easy is to completely gloss over how difficult it is for rookie QBs to learn the NFL game and on top our complex offense.

Oh yeah Mac will have to earn the job, nothing will be handed to him. I expect him to take the opportunity that will be given to him, he is after all a first round QB pick, the first such Patriots pick since Drew Bledsoe - and we did see some rookie first round QB picks starting around the league last year, so never say never. I expect Bill will recognize the obvious when the time comes and no matter how much he's waving pom poms now for Cam he does the right thing for the team.

Stid is a typical 4th round QB pick. Not going to use the word scrub but they are what they are. They very rarely become starters. They don't always become backups either. Most of them in that range don't stick on the team. Rohan Davey was also a 4th round pick. Ryan Mallett was a third rounder. I believe Stid is the NFL record holder for fastest to 5 ints in his career breaking Nathan Peterman's mark. He was meh to terrible in every single one of his appearances last year showing the same happy feet and panic under pressure that he did at Auburn and he really isn't as mobile as we were led to believe. Like I said he lost his job to Hoyer coming out of camp. His teammates are not impressed. Looks like his photo posing on a throne for social media was also a real swing and a miss for him.

 

[captain stone]

I said once they're mathematically eliminated Jones will get a start

That's what I thought about Stidham at the end of last season...

 

[captain stone]

Question: if BB is indeed so enamored by Cam (as some have been posturing here for awhile now), then why did he utilize his one and only first round draft pick on another player at the same position?

I don't think those two situations have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[Ivan]

We had the GOAT the last 20 years man! Better to compare him vs. Bledsoe....like Bledsoe coming to a new team with limited reps, poor personnel at the skill positions, getting COVID, and playing a tough schedule....

Wow Hyped, now you want Bledsoe to get COVID just to prove your point. That’s so sad.

I just don’t know who you are any more. ( sad emoji)

 

[captain stone]

But Brady was able to throw the lights out in a game and win. See 2003 superbowl, the team will still need that, even with a good run game. We were a run first play great defense team in 2003, and in the superbowl we could not stop the other side and Brady had to go into throw every down man to win the game. You still need that, but it might be a bit before we have that part of the offense.

Our run-first offense wasn't real good in 2003, including the SB...But Brady was already in the process of transitioning from a game manager to a game winner...

absolutely. In the early days brady saw a lot of 7 or 8 in the box, much easier to throw against those defenses, especially with play action, and defenses having to respect Dillion!

Dillon arrived in 2004, not 2003...But not even '04 Dillon will save this offense if Cant doesn't markedly improve his throwing mechanics.

 

[captain stone]

Russel Wilson started right away as a 3rd round pick I guess Seattle made a wrong decision.

He had less pressure on him, however, with fewer expectations.

 

[jmt57]

Stidham had a pretty solid rookie year from all reports. He impressed in camp and during the preseason.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Or maybe he was just another in a line of those glowing reports and preseason games that include Markell Carter, Zach Sudfeld and Kanorris Davis.

Let's not forget that all these reporters have to write a column every day. Glowing preseason reports of 7-on-7 drills don't mean a whole lot, nor do preseason games that contain no game plan, played against third stringers.

He obviously did not play because we had Brady.

Yes, obviously.

Last year due to Covid, there was no off-season but the Pats did not draft a QB so the consensus was that Stidham would be our starter. That was the belief until we signed Cam on June 28.

I don't recall any kind of consensus about Stidham on that matter.
Speculation based on the limited number of possibilities, yes; consensus, no.
Again, what we as fans believe based on limited information and media reports is irrelevant.

It's possible that during the time of the draft until June 28, Stidham failed to show the staff enough that he would be the starter.

Stidham not only failed to show enough to be the starter, he also failed to show enough to pass 35-year old career backup Brian Hoyer as the primary backup.

Occam's Razor: Which is more likely? That in a matter of just eight weeks Stidham regressed from being the starter, to Hoyer's backup? Or that Stidham was never was good as he is being portrayed here?

And as bad as Cam played, Bill still thought Cam was better than the Stidham.

Which means that Stidham must have been really, really bad.

The correlation is, Stidham was a second year player

Yes, Stidham was a second year player. Too early to give up on a fourth round draft pick.

who never got a start after having a pretty solid rookie year.

Going 2-4 with a 25% interception rate and passer rating of 18.7 is now a 'pretty solid year'?

The chances of Jones being able to do enough to get a start this year...

Is pretty high considering what we saw from Cam last year.

with the complexity of our offense and Cam's veteran knowledge of the position

Some players pick it up right away (Welker, Moss, Gronk) while others don't (Galloway, Ochocinco).

means there is no chance we see Jones.

I'll just write this off as an over the top exaggeration.

Bill's bar for Cam is extremely high compared to rookie which is why right after we drafted Jones, he said Jones had a lot to learn and needed to compete with Stidham first before Cam.

Same thing that Belichick says about every rookie, every year. And yet every year there are rookie starters.

It is doubtful he even beats out Stid for the back-up given we are looking at another shortened off-season and Stidham being in his third year.

If Jones can't beat the guy who was third on the depth chart behind Hoyer a year ago, then this was a monumentally bad draft pick.

So, it is Cam for this entire year unless he gets hurt.

That is one possibility but far from being some sort of fait accompli. Another possibility is that (b) it could also be Cam in Week One, until Jones has progressed enough to earn the starting position; or (c) it could be Cam to start the season, until he again starts playing like he did for much of Oct-Nov-Dec of 2020, and Jones takes over; or (d) a combination of both b and c.

 

[amfootball]

If Jones can't beat the guy who was third on the depth chart behind Hoyer a year ago, then this was a monumentally bad draft pick.

The expectations for this guy are surreal. If he does not beat out Stidham, it is in no way a referendum on the pick. Qb is the hardest position, our offense is complex, and Bill is a ridiculously hard coach. I think we have to get off of Jones being picked at 15. If we didn't take him, he probably goes late first or early second round. He is still a developmental guy regardless of draft position or the talking heads saying he is Pro ready. No Qb is pro ready. Mahomes sat for a year. Jones will too.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

The expectations for this guy are surreal. If he does not beat out Stidham, it is in no way a referendum on the pick. Qb is the hardest position, our offense is complex, and Bill is a ridiculously hard coach. I think we have to get off of Jones being picked at 15. If we didn't take him, he probably goes late first or early second round. He is still a developmental guy regardless of draft position or the talking heads saying he is Pro ready. No Qb is pro ready. Mahomes sat for a year. Jones will too.

Mahomes sat for a year because they had Alex Smith who was at the time really good. If KC had a 2020 Cam Newton QB like us right now, Mahomes would have started week one without a doubt.

i am not for starting Jones no matter what but if he is better than Cam and Stidham in camp I don’t see the benefits of sitting him for a year. If you have doubt playing him when his better in camp, in my opinion, you made a bad draft pick.

 

[RIpats88]

Mahomes sat for a year because they had Alex Smith who was at the time really good. If KC had a 2020 Cam Newton QB like us right now, Mahomes would have started week one without a doubt.

i am not for starting Jones no matter what but if he is better than Cam and Stidham in camp I don’t see the benefits of sitting him for a year. If you have doubt playing him when his better in camp, in my opinion, you made a bad draft pick.

I think Bill will play whomever looks best in camp. Nothing is given to any of these guys. Cam just had the inside track because of his veteran experience. But his contract isn't one that says he is the guaranteed starter. Although there is the option bill thinks Mac needs a year learning behind cam and working with Josh.

The real question will be if last year was a mirage or that is who cam newton is now. If he's throwing balls into the ground. Bill may have no choice but to start the rookie.

But if he shows that last year was just a combination of injury/covid/learning curve. I think he will start

 

[Triumph]

Ive already stated that Cam is the best QB on the NE roster.

BB did not resign Cam before FA started and Cam did not come back to not be the starter. BB isnt the type to play musical QBs. He did not in Cleveland and lost his job. He did not with Brady and Bledsoe. Jimmy Baby would have started all 4 games during Bradys suspension if he wasnt made of china. BB will stick with Cam like a Manager and starting Pitcher in a slump and only when its obvious that if BB does not act, the season is in jeopardy.

Once Mac comes in, its hard to go back and put the Jeanie back in the bottle. Breaking in a new QB is like breaking in a new car engine. Youve got 1 opportunity to do it right and can ruin the longevity and performance of the either in short order.

 

[amfootball]

Mahomes sat for a year because they had Alex Smith who was at the time really good. If KC had a 2020 Cam Newton QB like us right now, Mahomes would have started week one without a doubt.

i am not for starting Jones no matter what but if he is better than Cam and Stidham in camp I don’t see the benefits of sitting him for a year. If you have doubt playing him when his better in camp, in my opinion, you made a bad draft pick.

I don't disagree but this notion that Jones is going to light it up in TC and beat out Stidham and Cam is a pipe dream. It's not happening with Bill as HC. The bar for Jones to jump to get that spot is enormously high with our complex offense and Bill's belief in Cam.