Will Sony make this team?

[TheRazorsEdge]

He's going to be cut...ting up defenders as he slips into the endzone behind Jakob.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

PS - with now 5 TEs of the roster I think Vitale is cut. One of them is primed to take FB snaps (prob Keene).

 

[Sicilian]

What? According to half the board he is the second coming of Barry Sanders.

Find me one person who's said that and I'll buy you Tom Brady's old house.

 

[Patjew]

Find me one person who's said that and I'll buy you Tom Brady's old house.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I don't like to get into the mud, but no one has said anything remotely close to that.

 

[Joker]

whaddaya talkin' about??? I SAID IT !...OK where's the deed to Brady's house. I'm movin' in tonight...

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Harris/Michel/White/Taylor/Stevenson as emergency back/ST.

Bolden is the odd man out ..as much as it hurts for me to say. I've been a big big fan of his.

 

[TheRainMaker]

They currently have

2 FBs (Johnson, Vitale)
1 STRB (Bolden)
1 3dRB (White)
1 ?RB (Taylor)
3 RB1/RB2 (Harris/Michel/Stevenson)


Even if you take Bolden out of the equation, and consider him to be 100% ST only, you're still looking at 7 RBs. If you're keeping the FB position, that means that at least one of the Johnson/Vitale duo is staying, which means you still have at least 6 RBs.

So, it seems that, barring some injury, the team is looking at possibly at least 1 more cut at the position. So...

• Given how this team has historically treated top round draft picks, that would seem to indicate that Stevenson is safe, unless he shows as an absolute dud.
• Given that they just brought White back, he would seem to be safe.
• Given that Harris was the RB1 last year, and is the younger player, he would seem to be safe.
• Given that Stevenson/Harris/Michel would leave 3 RB1 types on the roster, and Stevenson is thought to have passing game ability

That would seem (repeat seem) to indicate that, as of now, if you're carrying one FB and only carrying 5 FB/RBs on the roster, the battle for a last spot would be coming down to Taylor v. Michel. *






*Obviously, the decision to go with 6, or 7, total RBs to start the season would change the equation, and some thought process leading the team to think one or more of the players could make it to the practice squad could also impact the thought process.

Unless Stevenson is a stud in camp, he’ll redshirt on IR with an “injury”.

1 FB stays. Wouldn't shock me if both are cut.

JJ Taylor and White seem like the same player which is why I did not want White to come back. In addition, this takes away touches from Michel/Harris who are better inside runners. I think if they had to catch passes, they could pick up the slack.

Harris is far from a sure thing as he has landed on IR two years in a row. Michel is surely feeling the heat and knows this is his last year, but he is the veteran runner, probably a better blocker and has more production than Harris in his first two years in the NFL.

Bolden takes up a roster spot just to play special teams. If they get rid of Michel and a running back gets injured (which they will) now the Pats are very thin at RB for a team that puts heavy emphasis on running the football.

 

[Deus Irae]

Harris/Michel/White/Taylor/Stevenson as emergency back/ST.

Bolden is the odd man out ..as much as it hurts for me to say. I've been a big big fan of his.

Bolden is an ST player with 38 total carries in his last 5 seasons (including the 8 he had in Miami in 2019, and the 0 carries last season, when he opted out). In the last 3 seasons where he has a carry for the Patriots, his carry totals have been 1, 13, and 15. He's not a member of the RBs.

 

[Ollie]

Unless Stevenson is a stud in camp, he’ll redshirt on IR with an “injury”.

1 FB stays. Wouldn't shock me if both are cut.

JJ Taylor and White seem like the same player which is why I did not want White to come back. In addition, this takes away touches from Michel/Harris who are better inside runners. I think if they had to catch passes, they could pick up the slack.

Harris is far from a sure thing as he has landed on IR two years in a row. Michel is surely feeling the heat and knows this is his last year, but he is the veteran runner, probably a better blocker and has more production than Harris in his first two years in the NFL.

Bolden takes up a roster spot just to play special teams. If they get rid of Michel and a running back gets injured (which they will) now the Pats are very thin at RB for a team that puts heavy emphasis on running the football.

not want White back? one of the best third down backs in the league and one of the most dependable players on the team? If harris and michel had to catch passes? They clearly aren't in the same league as in that dept

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Bolden is an ST player with 38 total carries in his last 5 seasons (including the 8 he had in Miami in 2019, and the 0 carries last season, when he opted out). In the last 3 seasons where he has a carry for the Patriots, his carry totals have been 1, 13, and 15. He's not a member of the RBs.

Correct... sort of. Wether you consider him part of the RBs or not is semantics because well..he is an RB on the team who plays in the ST unit primarily. I believe that is what Stevenson will do this coming season as we ride our final season with Michel... Thus eliminating the 'need' for Bolden to remain on the roster. Next year with Michel gone Stevenson has first crack at Michels spot and the coveted ST player spot open back up.

My opinion at this point anyway... If Michel is cut (doubt it) or traded (less doubtful about that)..it changes everything.

 

[Triumph]

Bolden has fumbled 1 time in his career.

Vs the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, when Bolden made the solo tackle he knocked the Seattle KO returner out of the game on the first possession. Bolden got up as if nothing had happened. By no means was it deliberate, but Bolden makes these seemingly insignificant plays that add up to having a positive contribution on the outcome.

When called upon in the offense, he usually delivers. A rushing 1st down here or slipping unnoticed behind the defense and scoring a passing TD there.

The Pats have redundancy at Sony Michels role. When Sony was running in quicksand last season, White came in and picked up needed yards rushing behind the same OL and vs the same defense that stopped Sony like a brick wall. Harris has clearly taken Sonys job and lunch money. JJ Taylor looked like a gamer and should see more carries (IMO) based on 2020. And now, if things go as scripted, the Pats have hopefully added another sorely needed dimension with a power back in Stevenson who could pick up the tough yards that Sony cant.

Keeping Sony and cutting Bolden would be a mistake unless Bolden has really gone South.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Bolden has fumbled 1 time in his career.

Vs the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, when Bolden made the solo tackle he knocked the Seattle KO returner out of the game on the first possession. Bolden got up as if nothing had happened. By no means was it deliberate, but Bolden makes these seemingly insignificant plays that add up to having a positive contribution on the outcome.

When called upon in the offense, he usually delivers. A rushing 1st down here or slipping unnoticed behind the defense and scoring a passing TD there.

The Pats have redundancy at Sony Michels role. When Sony was running in quicksand last season, White came in and picked up needed yards rushing behind the same OL and vs the same defense that stopped Sony like a brick wall. Harris has clearly taken Sonys job and lunch money. JJ Taylor looked like a gamer and should see more carries (IMO) based on 2020. And now, if things go as scripted, the Pats have hopefully added another sorely needed dimension with a power back in Stevenson who could pick up the tough yards that Sony cant.

Keeping Sony and cutting Bolden would be a mistake unless Bolden has really gone South.

All great points. I would argue Bolden hasn't been given enough true snaps at RB because he was/is so vital to ST, so listing 1 fumble in 38 carries in 5 seasons as a reason he should stick around would be a bit misguiding. In a pinch he's a good pass protector (so is Stevenson) and he's good at special teams (so is Stevenson) Fact is the pats were ok with him leaving 2 years ago...took him back when locker room would need that sort of veteran due to a 'bridge year' and he opted out.

Michel has missed time due to injury but when out there is productive and makes plays. He's on a rookie contract and you just declined his 5th year option..meaning he's literally going to be playing as his life depended on it.

If I'm playing GM no way I cut a player in that situation provided he is healthy and ready to go.

Agree to disagree compadre.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Surprised at all the people saying Bolden is a lock. The Patriots cut him a few years back when he was closer to his prime. If he wasn’t a lock then he certainly isn’t one now.

I’m not sure that Sony having his option declined means that he won’t be on the team long term. It probably means that the Pats don’t want to keep him at the cost of his option but that doesn’t mean they won’t try to retain his services at a much smaller number.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Surprised at all the people saying Bolden is a lock. The Patriots cut him a few years back when he was closer to his prime. If he wasn’t a lock then he certainly isn’t one now.

Agree. Pats cut Bolden and they save $1.4m. Not big money but if Rham shows solid ST ability it is reasonable to say Bolden may be gone.

I’m not sure that Sony having his option declined means that he won’t be on the team long term. It probably means that the Pats don’t want to keep him at the cost of his option but that doesn’t mean they won’t try to retain his services at a much smaller number.

Along those same lines, if the coaching staff is confident in Rham's ability to run well and pass block (big if), that may make Sony a potential post June 1 trade option as the team will realize $1.7m in cap savings.

To summarize, if Sony & Bolden are cut/traded post June 1, the NEP realize $3.1m in cap savings.

If that occurs, then your 2021 Week 1 backfield will be Harris, Rham, JJ, White and (predicting here) Jakob.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Harris/Michel/White/Taylor/Stevenson as emergency back/ST.

Bolden is the odd man out ..as much as it hurts for me to say. I've been a big big fan of his.

Bolden is an ST player with 38 total carries in his last 5 seasons (including the 8 he had in Miami in 2019, and the 0 carries last season, when he opted out). In the last 3 seasons where he has a carry for the Patriots, his carry totals have been 1, 13, and 15. He's not a member of the RBs.

Quoth JE, "special teams play cannot be overstated in NE, trust me."

Bolden is that guy you keep asking yourself, what? He's still here?... based on his role at the RB position. Then there was that one year where you said, wait, Miami? Whaaaaaat? But he's mostly made a career out of ST play and cut out a niche as a role player.

That said, JE tweeted that s*** at Stevenson, right? So how many RBs do you keep in the ST holding pen?

Bolden Pros: Who's putting their money on Brandon Bolden not carving out a ST role? Because that's usually a bad bet.
Bolden Cons: sheer numbers (of backs at position()

Bolden Intangible: Who else do we presently have at the Brand(o)/(e)/(i)n position?

Stevenson will stick in some way, shape, or form unless truly horrible in year 1... With the upside being the rare NE 3-down back, and the conceivable but unlikely downside being, "derp. swing and a miss." In between those extremes lies the most likely outcome, somewhere between a place in the stable and first among equals (in said stable.) Down toward the "derp" end of the spectrum, he "outcompetes" the other hangers-on at ST. But Bolden's made an art of hanging on there.

But Michel? Good for 5.7 YPC over the year, not a stranger to catching the ball out of the backfield, and he's only 2018 vintage himself. So I know he was injured for October-November.... is that why he's supposed to be out? Is this a cost thing? B/c that healthy competition/committee thing has historically kept our RB costs way down while delivering some of the best bang-for-the-buck in the league. If you don't believe me, ask LaGarrette "wtf do I have to DO" Blount. Check this out... he's the extreme case, but it looks like we never paid more than 1M in a year for him, and worked him for 299 carries in that league leading season...

LeGarrette Blount Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

LeGarrette Blount contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Now, Michel got 5.5M guaranteed, and costs 3m this year, basically 1.3m in prorated signing bonus from '18, and 1.7 m salary. All told, his dead cap this year is 2.3 m, and for a mere 700k more (the 3m number,) we keep him this last year of his rookie deal (year 5, as we all read, declined.)

Sony Michel | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Sony Michel signed a 1 year, $1,080,000 contract with the Los Angeles Rams, including an average annual salary of $1,080,000.

www.spotrac.com

To me the question seems to be, how wretched do you guys think Michel is? Is it/is it not worth 700K to get a season out of him, especially at the injury-magnet RB position, where you want the stable full?

And that might make the first battle for Stevenson a battle for a spec. teams spot... however, you have to figure there's a limit to the number of RBs you carry that way.

So if he makes eyes pop out immediately, that's great... but if it gets to nitty-gritty, in-the-trenches battling for a spot... what does he look like a shoe-in to do really well? Goal line vulture. Is that enough? Probably not, as JE11 signaled, on blast, no less. Will Stevenson likely look like the 3-down back that is his upside in year 1? I don't think he gets the chance to look like that, barring injury to Harris and Michel. Hence the "add value through ST" approach.

I guess when you unwrap the new toy on Christmas morning, even if it's the 4th coolest present this year, vs. the "big present" in one year and the 3d-best present another year, you can't wait to see if it isn't really the greatest sleeper present you ever got.

You have to ask, in the world of these low-ish numbers, how Rex Burkehead's comparatively hefty cap numbers have been justified the last 3 years... and, w/the season-ending knee injury in '20, whether NE looks forward to another cash-burn in the range he's been commanding (about 3m/yr against the cap.) Since he's a UFA, maybe the question is whether someone else thinks he's $3M good, injury history and all.... and if not, what NE could possibly get him for going forward. His injury situation is different from Michel's -- we have seen that Michel has pretty much come back. We haven't seen that yet from Rexy.

If Stevenson can start Patriots life with lights-out work in camp between the tackles, Rexy might be looking at a really team friendly deal this year.

I think a lot of people will be watching this group's work in camp, understatement of the year.

 

[50-yard-line]

Quoth JE, "special teams play cannot be overstated in NE, trust me."

Bolden is that guy you keep asking yourself, what? He's still here?... based on his role at the RB position. Then there was that one year where you said, wait, Miami? Whaaaaaat? But he's mostly made a career out of ST play and cut out a niche as a role player.

That said, JE tweeted that s*** at Stevenson, right? So how many RBs do you keep in the ST holding pen?

Bolden Pros: Who's putting their money on Brandon Bolden not carving out a ST role? Because that's usually a bad bet.
Bolden Cons: sheer numbers (of backs at position()

Bolden Intangible: Who else do we presently have at the Brand(o)/(e)/(i)n position?

Stevenson will stick in some way, shape, or form unless truly horrible in year 1... With the upside being the rare NE 3-down back, and the conceivable but unlikely downside being, "derp. swing and a miss." In between those extremes lies the most likely outcome, somewhere between a place in the stable and first among equals (in said stable.) Down toward the "derp" end of the spectrum, he "outcompetes" the other hangers-on at ST. But Bolden's made an art of hanging on there.

But Michel? Good for 5.7 YPC over the year, not a stranger to catching the ball out of the backfield, and he's only 2018 vintage himself. So I know he was injured for October-November.... is that why he's supposed to be out? Is this a cost thing? B/c that healthy competition/committee thing has historically kept our RB costs way down while delivering some of the best bang-for-the-buck in the league. If you don't believe me, ask LaGarrette "wtf do I have to DO" Blount. Check this out... he's the extreme case, but it looks like we never paid more than 1M in a year for him, and worked him for 299 carries in that league leading season...

LeGarrette Blount Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

LeGarrette Blount contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Now, Michel got 5.5M guaranteed, and costs 3m this year, basically 1.3m in prorated signing bonus from '18, and 1.7 m salary. All told, his dead cap this year is 2.3 m, and for a mere 700k more (the 3m number,) we keep him this last year of his rookie deal (year 5, as we all read, declined.)

Sony Michel | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Sony Michel signed a 1 year, $1,080,000 contract with the Los Angeles Rams, including an average annual salary of $1,080,000.

www.spotrac.com

To me the question seems to be, how wretched do you guys think Michel is? Is it/is it not worth 700K to get a season out of him, especially at the injury-magnet RB position, where you want the stable full?

And that might make the first battle for Stevenson a battle for a spec. teams spot... however, you have to figure there's a limit to the number of RBs you carry that way.

So if he makes eyes pop out immediately, that's great... but if it gets to nitty-gritty, in-the-trenches battling for a spot... what does he look like a shoe-in to do really well? Goal line vulture. Is that enough? Probably not, as JE11 signaled, on blast, no less. Will Stevenson likely look like the 3-down back that is his upside in year 1? I don't think he gets the chance to look like that, barring injury to Harris and Michel. Hence the "add value through ST" approach.

I guess when you unwrap the new toy on Christmas morning, even if it's the 4th coolest present this year, vs. the "big present" in one year and the 3d-best present another year, you can't wait to see if it isn't really the greatest sleeper present you ever got.

You have to ask, in the world of these low-ish numbers, how Rex Burkehead's comparatively hefty cap numbers have been justified the last 3 years... and, w/the season-ending knee injury in '20, whether NE looks forward to another cash-burn in the range he's been commanding (about 3m/yr against the cap.) Since he's a UFA, maybe the question is whether someone else thinks he's $3M good, injury history and all.... and if not, what NE could possibly get him for going forward. His injury situation is different from Michel's -- we have seen that Michel has pretty much come back. We haven't seen that yet from Rexy.

If Stevenson can start Patriots life with lights-out work in camp between the tackles, Rexy might be looking at a really team friendly deal this year.

I think a lot of people will be watching this group's work in camp, understatement of the year.

Thanks for breaking down the cost per RB like that. Kind of funny when folks here start acting like BB must just hate Sony since BB didn't pick him up for $4.5 on the 5th year option. When does BB pay $4.5 for anyone back there?

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

**

Quoth JE, "special teams play cannot be overstated in NE, trust me."

Bolden is that guy you keep asking yourself, what? He's still here?... based on his role at the RB position. Then there was that one year where you said, wait, Miami? Whaaaaaat? But he's mostly made a career out of ST play and cut out a niche as a role player.

That said, JE tweeted that s*** at Stevenson, right? So how many RBs do you keep in the ST holding pen?

Bolden Pros: Who's putting their money on Brandon Bolden not carving out a ST role? Because that's usually a bad bet.
Bolden Cons: sheer numbers (of backs at position()

Bolden Intangible: Who else do we presently have at the Brand(o)/(e)/(i)n position?

Stevenson will stick in some way, shape, or form unless truly horrible in year 1... With the upside being the rare NE 3-down back, and the conceivable but unlikely downside being, "derp. swing and a miss." In between those extremes lies the most likely outcome, somewhere between a place in the stable and first among equals (in said stable.) Down toward the "derp" end of the spectrum, he "outcompetes" the other hangers-on at ST. But Bolden's made an art of hanging on there.

But Michel? Good for 5.7 YPC over the year, not a stranger to catching the ball out of the backfield, and he's only 2018 vintage himself. So I know he was injured for October-November.... is that why he's supposed to be out? Is this a cost thing? B/c that healthy competition/committee thing has historically kept our RB costs way down while delivering some of the best bang-for-the-buck in the league. If you don't believe me, ask LaGarrette "wtf do I have to DO" Blount. Check this out... he's the extreme case, but it looks like we never paid more than 1M in a year for him, and worked him for 299 carries in that league leading season...

LeGarrette Blount Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

LeGarrette Blount contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Now, Michel got 5.5M guaranteed, and costs 3m this year, basically 1.3m in prorated signing bonus from '18, and 1.7 m salary. All told, his dead cap this year is 2.3 m, and for a mere 700k more (the 3m number,) we keep him this last year of his rookie deal (year 5, as we all read, declined.)

Sony Michel | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Sony Michel signed a 1 year, $1,080,000 contract with the Los Angeles Rams, including an average annual salary of $1,080,000.

www.spotrac.com

To me the question seems to be, how wretched do you guys think Michel is? Is it/is it not worth 700K to get a season out of him, especially at the injury-magnet RB position, where you want the stable full?

And that might make the first battle for Stevenson a battle for a spec. teams spot... however, you have to figure there's a limit to the number of RBs you carry that way.

So if he makes eyes pop out immediately, that's great... but if it gets to nitty-gritty, in-the-trenches battling for a spot... what does he look like a shoe-in to do really well? Goal line vulture. Is that enough? Probably not, as JE11 signaled, on blast, no less. Will Stevenson likely look like the 3-down back that is his upside in year 1? I don't think he gets the chance to look like that, barring injury to Harris and Michel. Hence the "add value through ST" approach.

I guess when you unwrap the new toy on Christmas morning, even if it's the 4th coolest present this year, vs. the "big present" in one year and the 3d-best present another year, you can't wait to see if it isn't really the greatest sleeper present you ever got.

You have to ask, in the world of these low-ish numbers, how Rex Burkehead's comparatively hefty cap numbers have been justified the last 3 years... and, w/the season-ending knee injury in '20, whether NE looks forward to another cash-burn in the range he's been commanding (about 3m/yr against the cap.) Since he's a UFA, maybe the question is whether someone else thinks he's $3M good, injury history and all.... and if not, what NE could possibly get him for going forward. His injury situation is different from Michel's -- we have seen that Michel has pretty much come back. We haven't seen that yet from Rexy.

If Stevenson can start Patriots life with lights-out work in camp between the tackles, Rexy might be looking at a really team friendly deal this year.

I think a lot of people will be watching this group's work in camp, understatement of the year.

Bingo....we have bingo!

 

[Deus Irae]

To me the question seems to be, how wretched do you guys think Michel is? Is it/is it not worth 700K to get a season out of him, especially at the injury-magnet RB position, where you want the stable full?

To me, the question is the same that it almost always is with Belichick:

Numbers. In this case, how many RBs do you want to carry, and how many of each type? I don't know how it's going to shake out. I just know that they've got more candidates than they have jobs, and they have no Brady/Gronk level player among them.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

To me, the question is the same that it almost always is with Belichick:

Numbers. In this case, how many RBs do you want to carry, and how many of each type? I don't know how it's going to shake out. I just know that they've got more candidates than they have jobs, and they have no Brady/Gronk level player among them.

Without a transcendent talent, and without an irreconcilable contract issue among them, it's just Thunderdome. I think probably six men enter, five men leave, ST slot included. Maybe 4 men leave.

Harris, Michel, White, Stevenson on depth chart. Does that mean anything?

New England Patriots 2025 NFL Depth Chart - ESPN

Check out the 2025 New England Patriots NFL depth chart on ESPN. Includes full details on starters, second, third and fourth tier Patriots players.

www.espn.com

Bolden is going to ST if anywhere. Sexy Rexy is still a UFA.

 

[mgteich]

If Sony gets beat out by the likes of JJ Taylor and Bolden then he deserves to be cut from the team

Realistically the depth chart looks to me like:
HB1 Harris
HB2 Michel
HB3 Stevenson
3rd Down HB White

If Stevenson has a great camp he has a chance to pass Michel, but Harris is the incumbent HB1 for now.

I agree with your depth chart. That being said, Bolden has never made this roster as a running back, and is favored, as usual, to make the team as a STer.

Belichick typically has 7-10 players who are here to play special teams. They make the team as starters and contributors on Special Teams.
SHOULD BE NO QUESTION OF THE NEED, IMO (6)
(1,2,3) Specialists (kicker, punter, long snapper)
(4,5) Gunners (Slater and Bethel)
(6) Returner
==============
"QUESTIONABLE" (3)
7) We almost always have a LB type like King. Reynolds was apparently brought in to compete for this spot.
8) Another SS/ST is almost always kept. Davis seems right for this role.
9) A generalist, used in many roles including blocking. Bolden has been missed when he isn't here.
=====================
HOW MANY?
I would prefer nine, but I understand having eight. And yes, I have seen posters who wanted to have 3 or 4.