Poll: Who takes Edelman's spot on the roster?

[maineman209]

Does "too weak" work then?

I'm not really seeing it.

Foster is only a 2nd-year player with very little "live game" NFL-level experience who has yet to run behind the starting OL this pre-season. And yet, if you compare his average YPA to all the other backs - after taking out everybody's longest runs for each game - he's been comparable to Lewis (the only other RB who's gotten carries in all three games), and ahead of Gillislee and Burkhead.

The percentage of Foster's carries that have gone for 1 yard or less is right there with Lewis, Gillislee and Burkhead. White is the only RB who hasn't been stuffed at least once this pre-season, BTW.

In terms of receiving, Foster's catch rate for this pre-season is about the same as Lewis, and Foster's YPC is 9.9 yds compared to Lewis' 6.4.

Just to be clear, I admit that this is a small sample size. Only Lewis and Foster have had carries in all three games. Bolden had carries in the first two games, but White, Gillislee, Burkhead and Daniels have carries in only one game each.

Also, I don't use stats as a be-all/end-all. I use them as a check for my "eyeball test". Foster didn't look particularly "weak" to me when running the ball, whereas Gillislee seemed to get stuffed a lot (aside from his one long run and one other decent carry). The stats don't dispute those impressions.

What this means to me is that Foster, as a runner, is not an outlier in this RB group (either way), and that Gillislee needs a lot more contact practice running behind the Pats' blocking scheme to consistently achieve the kind of YPA he had in Buffalo.

 

[PScottman]

Is the real question the who aspect?

Edelman undoubtably delivers production in myriad ways - short, long, in-between, and even in the alternative running game (screens and jet sweeps). However, the way this offense runs is through identification and exploitation. It just so happened that he performed both those roles.

It's that how that matters. They'll use a combination of all their offensive weapons to continue to do that.

Even in the Detroit game - Hogan was now the one in high speed motion to cue the defensive read on one play while I think it was either Lewis or White coming in tight on another. While, unless there are more injuries (and assuming a skill position player even takes his place), said replacement probably doesn't play a lot on offense anyway.

Where this injury takes another interesting turn vs the roster is when paired with the Slater absence: a frequent #5/6 receiver...if both are out how big a possibility the replacement isn't a skill WR, but more so a special teamer - say Bolden?

 

[Ross12]

Reading this thread, Lucien says Hi!

Really do like Lucien's potential. I don't think he's there yet, but he checks off a lot of boxes as far as potential goes.

 

[Ross12]

Truly, it would be epic to see Amendola go nuts and play up to the level that the Pats expected of him when they signed him to his initial contract, even if only for this one season.

 

[primetime]

Truly, it would be epic to see Amendola go nuts and play up to the level that the Pats expected of him when they signed him to his initial contract, even if only for this one season.

Just needs to stay healthy.

 

[PatsFan2]

Just needs to stay healthy.

Haven't happened yet I just can't bet on it and hope BB ain't either.

 

[Uptown]

IF we go outside of the organization, would BB consider Jags WR Allen Hurns?? Able to play outside & slot. Also, played pretty well against us in 2015. Undrafted WR who gained over 1,000/ 10 TDs playing injured with Blake Bortles at QB. Receiver with some size; 6'3 205. Durable (played with a sports hernia the entire 2015 season). Worth a flier. I heard he was due to make about $7 million this season (if that's the case, NO). However, listen to BB around the 0:42 & 1:20 second marks!..

 

[Triumph]

Conor McGregor

Cant go 60 minutes.

Gassed by the 4th quarter.

 

[long distance]

While “replacement“ is probably not what Pats think about . Danny was the next man up in the slot w Hogan running some cross routs, blocking. While Dola can do plenty of things Jules does as slot receiver (and some possibly better) he will not bring the toughness in blocking, run game, those ironman YAC close to LOS etc.

Here a nice film review of after-Jules plays from Kyed:
Patriots-Lions Film Review: How New England Replaced Julian Edelman

One guy that has some JE in him is Burkhead so it will be interesting to see his role going forward.
__

re. Carr - He did not see a single snap w Brady despite Jules, MM and Burkhead missing. He did play almost exclusively in the slot w JG and had some nice plays. So Id guess his status is open . but his physical presence and skill set/versatility looks much more like Dola than Jules . so if he gets the spot it certainly looks like the “inactive“ one.
__

Don't sleep on Cody Hollister though esp. if Slater can't start. He is the only 2nd-tier WR that has ST value (also had a few great plays on O last 2 games, shook off two TC injuries..)

 

[RobertWeathers]

While “replacement“ is probably not what Pats think about . Danny was the next man up in the slot w Hogan running some cross routs, blocking. While Dola can do plenty of things Jules does as slot receiver (and some possibly better) he will not bring the toughness in blocking, run game, those ironman YAC close to LOS etc.

Here a nice film review of after-Jules plays from Kyed:
Patriots-Lions Film Review: How New England Replaced Julian Edelman
__

re. Carr - He did not see a single snap w Brady despite Jules, MM and Burkhead missing. He did play almost exclusively in the slot w JG and had some nice plays. So Id guess his status is open . but his physical presence and skill set/versatility looks much more like Dola than Jules . so if he gets the spot it certainly looks like the “inactive“ one.
__

Don't sleep on Cody Hollister though esp. if Slater can't start. He is the only 2nd-tier WR that has ST value (also had a few great plays on O last 2 games, shook off two TC injuries..)

At his pro day, Carr did a 6.72 3-cone.

That automatically puts him on the 53.

 

[Schmo]

I'm not really seeing it.

Foster is only a 2nd-year player with very little "live game" NFL-level experience who has yet to run behind the starting OL this pre-season. And yet, if you compare his average YPA to all the other backs - after taking out everybody's longest runs for each game - he's been comparable to Lewis (the only other RB who's gotten carries in all three games), and ahead of Gillislee and Burkhead.

The percentage of Foster's carries that have gone for 1 yard or less is right there with Lewis, Gillislee and Burkhead. White is the only RB who hasn't been stuffed at least once this pre-season, BTW.

In terms of receiving, Foster's catch rate for this pre-season is about the same as Lewis, and Foster's YPC is 9.9 yds compared to Lewis' 6.4.

Just to be clear, I admit that this is a small sample size. Only Lewis and Foster have had carries in all three games. Bolden had carries in the first two games, but White, Gillislee, Burkhead and Daniels have carries in only one game each.

Also, I don't use stats as a be-all/end-all. I use them as a check for my "eyeball test". Foster didn't look particularly "weak" to me when running the ball, whereas Gillislee seemed to get stuffed a lot (aside from his one long run and one other decent carry). The stats don't dispute those impressions.

What this means to me is that Foster, as a runner, is not an outlier in this RB group (either way), and that Gillislee needs a lot more contact practice running behind the Pats' blocking scheme to consistently achieve the kind of YPA he had in Buffalo.

It doesn't take more "live game" experience to get the strength to break arm tackles. Some running backs can run through them, some can shrug them off..... DJ stops in his tracks.

If they wanted to completely change his role to a slot receiver, maybe that could work in a year or two (I'd rather have Lucien/Carr for this season though). I don't see him making a career out of running between the tackles.

Nothing against the guy, but to me it's the same as putting Malcolm Mitchell or Chris Hogan in the backfield and telling them to take on the DL.

 

[maineman209]

It doesn't take more "live game" experience to get the strength to break arm tackles. Some running backs can run through them, some can shrug them off..... DJ stops in his tracks.

If they wanted to completely change his role to a slot receiver, maybe that could work in a year or two (I'd rather have Lucien/Carr for this season though). I don't see him making a career out of running between the tackles.

Nothing against the guy, but to me it's the same as putting Malcolm Mitchell or Chris Hogan in the backfield and telling them to take on the DL.

Actually, it sometimes does. Breaking arm tackles isn't exclusively a function of strength. It's also a matter of technique and getting a feel for the required leverage that only comes through full contact. Lewis breaks arm tackles and he's certainly not significantly "stronger" than Foster. And Pats training camp history is littered with examples of backs who were bigger and stronger than Foster who couldn't break an arm tackles to save their lives.

 

[Schmo]

Actually, it sometimes does. Breaking arm tackles isn't exclusively a function of strength. It's also a matter of technique and getting a feel for the required leverage that only comes through full contact. Lewis breaks arm tackles and he's certainly not significantly "stronger" than Foster. And Pats training camp history is littered with examples of backs who were bigger and stronger than Foster who couldn't break an arm tackles to save their lives.

I can agree with you that technique is a big part of breaking tackles, but I just don't see an adjustment to his pad level making him much better between the tackles. I really disagree that Lewis isn't stronger.... I think we've all seen him drive back bigger players/piles, and that is something DJ just can't do.

I AM basing it in the eye test (IMO preseason is one of the few times it is more important than stats). I just think his running abilities would be more useful in the slot if he were to develop at that position, but not running between the tackles.

If the plan is to convert him back into a receiver, then we have two guys in Carr (slot) and Lucien (WR) that have been practicing at that position and are more ready to play.

My bet is on Lucien because he's been around for a year and IMO has a bigger upside (and is my binkie). But if Bill needs another slot guy, Carr will make it.

 

[supafly]

Cant go 60 minutes.

Gassed by the 2nd quarter.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

IIRC, either HOU was or CLE is willing to do that to move Broken Lobster.

I don't think so.

Where HOU got creative was giving up draft picks to entice CLE to take on his contract, an NBA-style salary dump. CLE then has the contract MINUS all of the bonuses, and don't take any sort of hit if they trade him for anything, or even if they dump him for that matter.

As weak as the NFLPA is, they will fight contract renegotiations downward, unless the player accepts it over the possibility of being released and being relegated to playing in a lesser environment (Amendola, for example)

 

[primetime]

While “replacement“ is probably not what Pats think about . Danny was the next man up in the slot w Hogan running some cross routs, blocking. While Dola can do plenty of things Jules does as slot receiver (and some possibly better) he will not bring the toughness in blocking, run game, those ironman YAC close to LOS etc.

Here a nice film review of after-Jules plays from Kyed:
Patriots-Lions Film Review: How New England Replaced Julian Edelman

One guy that has some JE in him is Burkhead so it will be interesting to see his role going forward.
__

re. Carr - He did not see a single snap w Brady despite Jules, MM and Burkhead missing. He did play almost exclusively in the slot w JG and had some nice plays. So Id guess his status is open . but his physical presence and skill set/versatility looks much more like Dola than Jules . so if he gets the spot it certainly looks like the “inactive“ one.
__

Don't sleep on Cody Hollister though esp. if Slater can't start. He is the only 2nd-tier WR that has ST value (also had a few great plays on O last 2 games, shook off two TC injuries..)

Amendola has always been one of the best blocking wide receivers in football and may be a better blocker than Edelman. He's not Edelman in terms of speed and elusiveness but let's not sell him short.

 

[maineman209]

I can agree with you that technique is a big part of breaking tackles, but I just don't see an adjustment to his pad level making him much better between the tackles. I really disagree that Lewis isn't stronger.... I think we've all seen him drive back bigger players/piles, and that is something DJ just can't do.

I AM basing it in the eye test (IMO preseason is one of the few times it is more important than stats). I just think his running abilities would be more useful in the slot if he were to develop at that position, but not running between the tackles.

If the plan is to convert him back into a receiver, then we have two guys in Carr (slot) and Lucien (WR) that have been practicing at that position and are more ready to play.

My bet is on Lucien because he's been around for a year and IMO has a bigger upside (and is my binkie). But if Bill needs another slot guy, Carr will make it.

Yeah, I'm not even close to suggesting a steady diet of between the tackles carries for Foster. He's a receiving back who played a crap-tonne of snaps out of the slot (very successfully) for four seasons at Arizona State - where they actually converted him to slot-WR as a senior (because they lost their regular slot guy).

Lewis has had two more NFL seasons and 35 more NFL games than Foster in which to develop the skill of turning speed to power in LOS traffic. Plus, he's only 5'8", which instantly gives him better leverage than a six-footer like Foster.

Then, too, it took James White until his third season (2016) to figure out how to run consistently well through DL and LB traffic, but it wasn't because he was "weak" and it didn't diminish his value to the team.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Carr and Lucien. I don't think either of them is as ready to contribute as much overall to the offense as Foster.

 

[DW Toys]

Pretty clear they're gonna have Calvin Johnson unretire and flip a fifth round pick to the Lions to lock him in.

Hahaha just joking guys! Just a joke haha.

But seriously let's try to get Calvin Johnson.

Thought of it but he is an outside guy. Still would be a great get.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

DW Toys do not overrate Tavon Austin he's been a bust of a WR who haven't live up to his Draft position. It's too late in the Game to learn this Offense we definitely have to go in house on this one. Austin Carr who is not even my first choice is a better WR than Tavon Austin. The Patriots already have their Austin they don't need Tavon.

Fair statement but who has been the Rams QB in the last three years? Seems like we got a kid like Hogan from a rancid QB no where Bills. I agree on the time to get the play book though, but anyone you bring in has to adjust and adjust fast.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

DW Toys do not overrate Tavon Austin he's been a bust of a WR who haven't live up to his Draft position. It's too late in the Game to learn this Offense we definitely have to go in house on this one. Austin Carr who is not even my first choice is a better WR than Tavon Austin. The Patriots already have their Austin they don't need Tavon.

Would you like to see him in a Pats uni (if he "gets it")?
He also had almost 400 Yards in punt returns last year. JE was our best. Book still out on Jones and Dola got hurt doing punts in 2016.

DW Toys