Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

[Ring 6]

Drive 1: 5 of 5 for 64 yards, TD
Drive 2: 4 of 5 for 72 yards, TD
Drive 3: 5 of 7 for 59 yards, TD
Drive 4: 1 of 2 for 4 yards, PUNT (three and out; incompletion was on 3rd and 4, he tried to go deep to White)
Drive 5: 2 of 4 for 18, Amendola fumbled after a 13-yard completion on 3rd and 8
Drive 6: 1 of 3 for 15, Garoppolo injured after a 15-yard completion on 3rd and 9

even though the last three drives weren't as good as the first three, i don't think the dolphins necessarily figured out garoppolo.

drive 4 he took a shot on 3rd down and missed--it happens.
drive 5 they were moving down the field when they coughed it up.
drive 6 he missed a few short passes (one was nullified because of a penalty) but he converted a 3rd and 9 before getting injured.
.

So it's 9/10/195 and it certainly was shredding them
Followed by 4/9/37 no real way to be certain why it dropped off so much or what that means but it did.

I think many people remember those 3 drives alone.

 

[ivanvamp]

Appear to be quite a few. I haven't counted. You can if you like.

So you're just throwing crap against the wall when you say, "We are talking about patriots fans being in a hurry to push Tom Brady out the door when fans of other teams have historically shown great respect, loyalty and commitment to lesser players." Got it.

If you think the appreciation fans show for someone who has given them what Brady has given this fan base is worthless then i have your answer.

No, what's worthless is you making such generalizations that are not quantifiable in any way, making the claim that Patriots fans are not acting towards Tom Brady like fans of other teams did with their stars. This is the age of the internet, where everybody has a voice. If the internet existed in 1993 when Montana was traded to KC, and there was a 49er newsgroup, there would absolutely have been a couple of morons posting stupid stuff, but that doesn't mean that "49er fans are showing no appreciation for Montana".

That many fans on this board have no appreciation for what Tom Brady has done and is still doing and devalue him. Havent you been reading?

Define "many". I haven't seen ANYBODY that's a Patriots fan here saying anything negative about Brady. I see people suggesting that they think that because he's hitting his 40s, and because they have a potentially great (as they see it) replacement in JG, that maybe now is the right time to move on from Brady.

Show me where people here have actually shown "no appreciation" (your words) for Brady, and "devaluing" (your word again) him.

 

[ivanvamp]

Lots of "may", "we'll see", "I think", "seem to be" and not a whole lot of substantial evidence that a first round pick was on the table. I read Cabot's tweets, she was the only one that mattered outside of Boston that that kept riding this horse all the way up to the draft. Some of her tweets sounded to me like wishful thinking over anything else.

If I'm wrong I'd be absolutely flabbergasted that BB would do something as monumentally stupid as turn down a high first round pick for effectively a rental of JG. Another JG won't be that hard to find.

I agree that it's speculative, as I mentioned in my previous post. The point is that this wasn't a NE driven media creation necessarily. Someone who is in touch with Cleveland had the same idea.

 

[scout]

You guys realize in two or three years Brady will probably agree to less money than what JG will likely ask for, and in that case, what's best for the team. Even if the long ball loses some zip it's the short and intermediate throws that wins us Super Bowls. I think Brady can play for 4-5 years and even if he doesn't we will have a competing backup no matter who it is.

Actually, we'll be having a similar conversation in a # years with Jacoby.

 

[supafly]

So it's 9/10/195 and it certainly was shredding them
Followed by 4/9/37 no real way to be certain why it dropped off so much or what that means but it did.

I think many people remember those 3 drives alone.

Sure, but let's not act as if he didn't look good in the two starts that he had.

502 yards in less than 6 quarters. 68.3 completion percentage. Went on the road raw to start the season and came back from ARZ with a 24/33 for 264 performance. Never turned the ball over once. Looked very capable of running our system.

 

[Jackson 2]

Sure, but let's not act as if he didn't look good in the two starts that he had.

502 yards in less than 6 quarters. 68.3 completion percentage. Went on the road raw to start the season and came back from ARZ with a 24/33 for 264 performance. Never turned the ball over once. Looked very capable of running our system.

If I were you I'd duck right now...

 

[supafly]

Personally if I wasn't a Pats fan I would not exactly be happy if my team traded a high first rounder for one year of a JG in the same circumstances.

If I were a **** team like Chicago, SF, or Cleveland, I'd be happy to take a young QB who went in the 2nd round and has been groomed for multiple years under Brady/Belichick in a highly competitive environment. We see a lot of high round QBs fail in this league every year.

As you note, the "one year" aspect is what makes it a gamble, but even then, you'd think someone would bite. I still think they'll be able to recoup a 2nd rounder via tag/trade next year, if that's the choice that will be made by the organization. There will still be a demand. His asking price will be key. I think some are overvaluing his asking price a bit.

 

[supafly]

If I were you I'd duck right now...

I'm certainly not suggesting anything close to what AJ is claiming posters are doing in terms of wanting to run TB12 out of town.

I am, however, trying to put cherry picked stats into their proper context. The truth is that Garoppolo looked pretty decent in his 2 starts, even if he went a stretch of 4/9 at one point (with 2 deep shots).

 

[ivanvamp]

Even in most of Brady's best games he goes through stretches of those games where he struggles a little, or his stats aren't quite as dominant. There are a few that are essentially "perfect" games, but otherwise...yeah, even the GOAT typically has such patches during even his great games.

One need only look at his most recent game to see how that works.

Thankfully, his better moments were at the end of the game in the last two Super Bowls! But we can pull out stretches of most of his games to see him struggle at times. That's why it's not wise to look at such small sample sizes.

 

[Ring 6]

So you're just throwing crap against the wall when you say, "We are talking about patriots fans being in a hurry to push Tom Brady out the door when fans of other teams have historically shown great respect, loyalty and commitment to lesser players." Got it.

So you think I have to count up how many people share an opinion to make my observation valid? remember you created that standard.

No, what's worthless is you making such generalizations that are not quantifiable in any way, making the claim that Patriots fans are not acting towards Tom Brady like fans of other teams did with their stars.

It's an observation not a scientific study. Again do you want that standard? Every comment you make must be quantifiable?
The butt hurt is really getting to you.

This is the age of the internet, where everybody has a voice. If the internet existed in 1993 when Montana was traded to KC, and there was a 49er newsgroup, there would absolutely have been a couple of morons posting stupid stuff, but that doesn't mean that "49er fans are showing no appreciation for Montana".

How many? You are just throwing crap against a wall because you can't quantify that.

Define "many". I haven't seen ANYBODY that's a Patriots fan here saying anything negative about Brady.

Read the board.

I see people suggesting that they think that because he's hitting his 40s, and because they have a potentially great (as they see it) replacement in JG, that maybe now is the right time to move on from Brady.

Show me where people here have actually shown "no appreciation" (your words) for Brady, and "devaluing" (your word again) him.

Read the board.

Look I couldn't care less about your butt-hurt rants because you are crying that someone added a valid point to a thread but you think you are king of the thread and should rule in what gets discussed.

I post here about things I have a strong opinion about, i back up all of my opinions thoroughly and I ask people to defend theirs if I disagree.
Your snarky little teenage commentary is dull, pointless and boring.
Go try to impress someone who cares.
There really is absolutely no reason for you to respond to any of my posts.
You insist on making things personal, and disagree for the sake of disagreeing.
Let's do the board a favor, and you can just not respond to my posts.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm certainly not suggesting anything close to what AJ is claiming posters are doing in terms of wanting to run TB12 out of town.

I am, however, trying to put cherry picked stats into their proper context. The truth is that Garoppolo looked pretty decent in his 2 starts, even if he went a stretch of 4/9 at one point (with 2 deep shots).

I didn't watch the JAG games, but there's no doubt that part of the discussion following that game was that the Dolphins seemed to adjust to JAG and JAG was struggling to deal with it. It's a non-issue in the bigger picture, since the game's all about adjustments, and JAG got injured before "we" were able to see if he was able to make those adjustments, but it was there.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure, but let's not act as if he didn't look good in the two starts that he had.

502 yards in less than 6 quarters. 68.3 completion percentage. Went on the road raw to start the season and came back from ARZ with a 24/33 for 264 performance. Never turned the ball over once. Looked very capable of running our system.

I think I qualified the value to be placed on 3 drives.
Overall he played pretty well for 6 quarters. The only comment I think I disagreed with was someone said he shredded 2 good defenses, which I think led to this topic, and I would say he shredded for a quarter and neither was a good defense.

 

[Galeb]

I would root for the Pats even if *I* was playing for the Jest.

Larry Izzo?

 

[supafly]

I think I qualified the value to be placed on 3 drives.
Overall he played pretty well for 6 quarters. The only comment I think I disagreed with was someone said he shredded 2 good defenses, which I think led to this topic, and I would say he shredded for a quarter and neither was a good defense.

Yes, he most certainly didn't shred two defenses, but I think he looked pretty capable in his limited time.

This is, of course, not meaning to suggest that I would choose him over Brady. Just giving my opinion that Garoppolo looked better than I expected, although even in those failed 3 drives that you're mentioning, he still converted third and long--twice.

Amendola's fumble helped to take some momentum away, so that's obviously not on JG.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Brady is a living legend. You don't trade Brady to make room for Garappolo. JG is the insurance policy, not the vehicle for our next Super Bowl Championship.

The road to the next Lombardi trophy lies with a healthy Tom Brady! TB12 for life! Go Pats!

 

[ivanvamp]

So you think I have to count up how many people share an opinion to make my observation valid? remember you created that standard.




It's an observation not a scientific study. Again do you want that standard? Every comment you make must be quantifiable?
The butt hurt is really getting to you.


How many? You are just throwing crap against a wall because you can't quantify that.




Read the board.



Read the board.

Look I couldn't care less about your butt-hurt rants because you are crying that someone added a valid point to a thread but you think you are king of the thread and should rule in what gets discussed.

I post here about things I have a strong opinion about, i back up all of my opinions thoroughly and I ask people to defend theirs if I disagree.
Your snarky little teenage commentary is dull, pointless and boring.
Go try to impress someone who cares.
There really is absolutely no reason for you to respond to any of my posts.
You insist on making things personal, and disagree for the sake of disagreeing.
Let's do the board a favor, and you can just not respond to my posts.

You haven't backed up anything, Andy.

In the Butler thread a while back you just made assertion after assertion, and I gave you pages of actual citations from source after source after source, and you had the gall to say *I* was making things up.

Once again here you're making general statements about the views of "Patriots fans" with respect to Brady in comparison to, say, "49er fans" with respect to Montana, but really you're just throwing crap against the wall. When I ask you to show me one poster who is actually shown "no appreciation" for Brady, you can't do it.

That's why I asked you to quantify things or to give specific examples.

Not surprisingly, you can't.

Meh. It is what it is.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, he most certainly didn't shred two defenses, but I think he looked pretty capable in his limited time.

This is, of course, not meaning to suggest that I would choose him over Brady. Just giving my opinion that Garoppolo looked better than I expected.

No matter how you judge his play it's an enormous leap to Brady.
I mean think about the best possible comparison of what QB you would expect him to have a career like and it's not even close to Brady.
Brady has won so much more than anyone else it's almost unbelievable.

If you look at the numbers he has more playoff, conf championship and SB wins than Joe Montana and Dan Marino combined.
Since turning 37 he has more playoff, cc, and SB wins than drew brees has had in his entire career.
I posted the numbers earlier and he is literally in a class all by himself.

 

[supafly]

No matter how you judge his play it's an enormous leap to Brady.
I mean think about the best possible comparison of what QB you would expect him to have a career like and it's not even close to Brady.
Brady has won so much more than anyone else it's almost unbelievable.

If you look at the numbers he has more playoff, conf championship and SB wins than Joe Montana and Dan Marino combined.
Since turning 37 he has more playoff, cc, and SB wins than drew brees has had in his entire career.
I posted the numbers earlier and he is literally in a class all by himself.

No doubt about it. There's no use in trying to rush Brady out. There could be other factors where Brady doesn't make it to his projected "5 yrs."

As to what Belichick will do with JG? I'll happily sit back and watch him decide. He's much better at personnel decisions than I am + he makes more money.

I do think some consideration will be given to trying to keep Garoppolo, so I wouldn't be shocked to see them try and get creative. The specifics are unknown and there are obviously a lot of variables which admittedly makes it a lower likelihood of occurring.

 

[Ring 6]

You haven't backed up anything, Andy.

That is totally incorrect. Read my posts, I back up every opinion I give. The fact that you dismiss or ignore the way I back it up doesn't mean it isn't there.

In the Butler thread a while back you just made assertion after assertion, and I gave you pages of actual citations from source after source after source, and you had the gall to say *I* was making things up.

I have no clue what you are referring to but if I recall the butler thread was about what was going to happen. And the butler thread was about butler being a "placeholder" in the cooks deal. I said he wasn't and I was right.

not sure what citations of sources you are talking about but it does appear your sources were wrong.



[wuote]Once again here you're making general statements about the views of "Patriots fans" with respect to Brady in comparison to, say, "49er fans" with respect to Montana, but really you're just throwing crap against the wall. [/quote]
It is an observation. Observations tend to be general statements. If you want to do a statistical analysis feel free.

When I ask you to show me one poster who is actually shown "no appreciation" for Brady, you can't do it.

That is a lie. You never said that.

That's why I asked you to quantify things or to give specific examples.

You never said that either, or please show me where you asked for specific examples.
By the way they are all over the board.
"Better one year early than one year late"
"I root for the laundry"
"I was a patriots fan before Brady and will be after Brady"
"Who cares about loyalty"
And on and on. But you knew that.

Not surprisingly, you can't.

Meh. It is what it is.

Yeah just did. But you knew what I was referring to and chose to play dumb.

 

[Ring 6]

No doubt about it. There's no use in trying to rush Brady out. There could be other factors where Brady doesn't make it to his projected "5 yrs."

As to what Belichick will do with JG? I'll happily sit back and watch him decide. He's much better at personnel decisions than I am + he makes more money.

I do think some consideration will be given to trying to keep Garoppolo, so I wouldn't be shocked to see them try and get creative. The specifics are unknown and there are obviously a lot of variables which admittedly makes it a lower likelihood of occurring.

The day will come for Brady.
There is some % chance it will be this year.
There is some % chance it will be next year, in 3,4,5 etc and obviously that number increases every year.
The purpose of keeping garoppolo is in the event this is the year.
If this isn't the year and you could keep garoppolo longer you would (but you cannot because of the cost and because he wants to play).

In other words you keep garoppolo until you cant but when the day comes that you can't if Brady is still Brady you cut garoppolo lose.
There is no other sensible way.

I will add that I would bet a big sum of money that from today forward Tom Brady wins more SBs (as starting QB because you can't count Jimmy winning as a backup) than garoppolo.