Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

[XLIX]

This thread is a joke. Belichick will make the decision and we will all live with it. Everybody ages, and when that happens you heal slower, it is harder to get out of bed, you got aches, and you get injured easier. Even people who are in great shape suffer these setbacks.

Better a year early than a year late.

"A year early" could cost a championship that would likely never be recovered.

 

[IcyPatriot]

This thread is inane ... the NFL is the most disloyal to it's players amongt the major sports.
Once in a while there is a bit of loyalty as we saw regarding Bruschi and Troy Brown.
Belichick has when possible released players early as in doing them a favor to catch on elsewhere.
But there is little to no loyalty between player and team - the fans do not factor into the equation at all.

As for myself I root for the laundry - those not here anymore I wish them well.
I would gladly be the 53rd player or practice squad for a year - I do not feel bad for anyone who gets cut or traded.

 

[Ring 6]

Ifs and buts...last year is over, we have this year and next year.

So you don't think a year too soon is better than a year too late, or you do, or you want to wait until after the fact to answer?

Should Denver have cut manning a year too soon (i.e. 2013) instead of a year too late (a year in which they won the SB)

 

[Ring 6]

This thread is inane ... the NFL is the most disloyal to it's players amongt the major sports.
Once in a while there is a bit of loyalty as we saw regarding Bruschi and Troy Brown.
Belichick has when possible released players early as in doing them a favor to catch on elsewhere.
But there is little to no loyalty between player and team - the fans do not factor into the equation at all.

As for myself I root for the laundry - those not here anymore I wish them well.
I would gladly be the 53rd player or practice squad for a year - I do not feel bad for anyone who gets cut or traded.

We aren't talking about belichick using loyalty to make a decision

We are talking about patriots fans being in a hurry to push Tom Brady out the door when fans of other teams have historically shown great respect, loyalty and commitment to lesser players.

Forget Kosar.

Do patriots fans appreciate Tom Brady less than
Dolphin fans appreciated Marino
9er fans appreciated Montana
Saints fans today appreciate Brees
And the list goes on.

i mean it's not even about winning because we are talking about Brady at the time he is still the best QB in the NFL.

 

[ivanvamp]

We aren't talking about belichick using loyalty to make a decision

We are talking about patriots fans being in a hurry to push Tom Brady out the door when fans of other teams have historically shown great respect, loyalty and commitment to lesser players.

How many Patriots fans are "in a hurry to push Tom Brady out the door"? Can you give a number?

Forget Kosar.

Do patriots fans appreciate Tom Brady less than
Dolphin fans appreciated Marino
9er fans appreciated Montana
Saints fans today appreciate Brees
And the list goes on.

Such general questions are worthless. You haven't quantified "Patriots fans" or "Dolphin fans". There's no way to quantify "appreciation". You're just throwing crap against the wall.

i mean it's not even about winning because we are talking about Brady at the time he is still the best QB in the NFL.

So what are you complaining about, exactly?

 

[ivanvamp]

This thread is inane ... the NFL is the most disloyal to it's players amongt the major sports.
Once in a while there is a bit of loyalty as we saw regarding Bruschi and Troy Brown.
Belichick has when possible released players early as in doing them a favor to catch on elsewhere.
But there is little to no loyalty between player and team - the fans do not factor into the equation at all.

As for myself I root for the laundry - those not here anymore I wish them well.
I would gladly be the 53rd player or practice squad for a year - I do not feel bad for anyone who gets cut or traded.

You're a mod. You could lock it if you wanted to.

 

[bbobbo]

Have to look up the exact numbers but it was something along the lines of TDs on his first 3 drives then struggles after that.
Whether thats figuring him, a blip, or just life in the NFL, it was one very good quarter (or thereabouts) then a bit so good one

The stats say he started hot - 9 of 10 and then went only 8 of 17 or something like that. I remember he started to really feel the pressure around that time. Could be a coincidence or a blip. Most likely the Dolphins figured out how to break his system and he couldn't adjust.

Drive 1: 5 of 5 for 64 yards, TD
Drive 2: 4 of 5 for 72 yards, TD
Drive 3: 5 of 7 for 59 yards, TD
Drive 4: 1 of 2 for 4 yards, PUNT (three and out; incompletion was on 3rd and 4, he tried to go deep to White)
Drive 5: 2 of 4 for 18, Amendola fumbled after a 13-yard completion on 3rd and 8
Drive 6: 1 of 3 for 15, Garoppolo injured after a 15-yard completion on 3rd and 9

even though the last three drives weren't as good as the first three, i don't think the dolphins necessarily figured out garoppolo.

drive 4 he took a shot on 3rd down and missed--it happens.
drive 5 they were moving down the field when they coughed it up.
drive 6 he missed a few short passes (one was nullified because of a penalty) but he converted a 3rd and 9 before getting injured.
.

 

[1960Pats]

I don't believe for a second that BB would have turned down a first round pick for JG if the offer was really out there.

Prior to the draft I might have agreed with you. Not now. The draft proved that teams were hard up for a QB. JG was the best of the litter.

 

[Tony2046]

Uh huh. You struggle with nuance, I see. The truth is generally more complex than simple minds can grasp: must be frustrating for you.

Oh Great Thelonious the Erroneous,

Though thee has't mastered grammar thee still struggle'th with reality.

I shall bringeth thee to the riv'r from which thee might not but shouldst drinketh.

It is not Hugh Millen, Tony Eason, Doug Flutie or even Steve Grogan.

Nay I say, Nay!!! Or to keep in harmony with the "leading a horse to water" concept. Neigh I say, Neigh!!!

Rather it is Boston's Mt. Rushmore: Ted Williams, David Ortiz, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Bobby Orr, Troy Brown and Tom F'ing Brady.

So dear Thelonious, drinketh up the sweet nectar of wisdom I have provided and you too may become enlightened.

Thy art welcometh.

 

[1960Pats]

This is the issue. People simply do not recognize how much better Brady has been than anyone else and think dumping him early for anyone is reasonable.

That's it in a nutshell.

Brady's the guy that the NYFL unjustly decided to label as a cheater, rather than the incredible GOAT that he is.

He's also the guy that Kraft threw under the bus to show his allegiance to "The Band of 32."

 

[Clonamery]

Oh Great Thelonious the Erroneous,

Though thee has't mastered grammar thee still struggle'th with reality.

I shall bringeth thee to the riv'r from which thee might not but shouldst drinketh.

It is not Hugh Millen, Tony Eason, Doug Flutie or even Steve Grogan.

Nay I say, Nay!!! Or to keep in harmony with the "leading a horse to water" concept. Neigh I say, Neigh!!!

Rather it is Boston's Mt. Rushmore: Ted Williams, David Ortiz, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Bobby Orr, Troy Brown and Tom F'ing Brady.

So dear Thelonious, drinketh up the sweet nectar of wisdom I have provided and you too may become enlightened.

Thy art welcometh.

Ony-Tay...er, wait, that's pig latin.

Tonyous, "get thee to a nunnery," thou must not query the superior intellect of thy felonious master, Thelonious. His sanctimonious wit be acrimonious by nature, my good man, and will thusly require the mightiest kick in the -aneous.

 

[Tony2046]

Ony-Tay...er, wait, that's pig latin.

Tonyous, "get thee to a nunnery," thou must not query the superior intellect of thy felonious master, Thelonious. His sanctimonious wit be acrimonious by nature, my good man, and will thusly require the mightiest kick in the -aneous.

 

[sb1]

Prior to the draft I might have agreed with you. Not now. The draft proved that teams were hard up for a QB. JG was the best of the litter.

Actually I'd say JG and these rookies are all in the same boat... nobody has any definitive clue how good they really are.

The difference is JG is older and he is a FA in 2018. And the Pats are also not known for developing top QB talent (Mallett, O'Connell and company say hi)

That's why I really believe despite these anonymous reports to the contrary nobody made a worthwhile offer for him that trumps the need for the Pats to have a good QB insurance policy in 2017... if they did BB would have jumped all over it.

 

[sb1]

Drive 1: 5 of 5 for 64 yards, TD
Drive 2: 4 of 5 for 72 yards, TD
Drive 3: 5 of 7 for 59 yards, TD
Drive 4: 1 of 2 for 4 yards, PUNT (three and out; incompletion was on 3rd and 4, he tried to go deep to White)
Drive 5: 2 of 4 for 18, Amendola fumbled after a 13-yard completion on 3rd and 8
Drive 6: 1 of 3 for 15, Garoppolo injured after a 15-yard completion on 3rd and 9

even though the last three drives weren't as good as the first three, i don't think the dolphins necessarily figured out garoppolo.

drive 4 he took a shot on 3rd down and missed--it happens.
drive 5 they were moving down the field when they coughed it up.
drive 6 he missed a few short passes (one was nullified because of a penalty) but he converted a 3rd and 9 before getting injured.
.

On those early drives JG did what he was supposed to do... stay within the system, play it safe, and don't make mistakes. Other than 2 sacks and the injury which were on him, he did a very nice job doing that. Keep in mind that was a bottom 5 pass defense in the NFL last year. When Miami was able to get some pressure on him he didn't really respond all that well. That's something that gets on tape and is exploited by teams. But that's ok, it's all part of his development. Brady looked pretty bad at times earlier in his career while he was learning too.

The bottom line is there's very little about JG's play in that tiny sample size which indicates the guy is a future superstar in this league. Time will tell. But it's not that hard to see why nobody wanted to trade a first rounder for him.

 

[supafly]

That's why I really believe despite these anonymous reports to the contrary nobody made a worthwhile offer for him that trumps the need for the Pats to have a good QB insurance policy in 2017... if they did BB would have jumped all over it.

I'm inclined to agree with you and had made something of the same argument back in March/April, but the sheer volume of reports and amount of media chatter sure make it seem like a high round pick was offered. Who really knows, though?

 

[sb1]

I'm inclined to agree with you and had made something of the same argument back in March/April, but the sheer volume of reports and amount of media chatter sure make it seem like a high round pick was offered. Who really knows, though?

True. It felt like almost all of that chatter was from the Boston media though? I bet that was deliberate.

Personally if I wasn't a Pats fan I would not exactly be happy if my team traded a high first rounder for one year of a JG in the same circumstances.

 

[ivanvamp]

On those early drives JG did what he was supposed to do... stay within the system, play it safe, and don't make mistakes. Other than 2 sacks and the injury which were on him, he did a very nice job doing that. Keep in mind that was a bottom 5 pass defense in the NFL last year. When Miami was able to get some pressure on him he didn't really respond all that well. That's something that gets on tape and is exploited by teams. But that's ok, it's all part of his development. Brady looked pretty bad at times earlier in his career while he was learning too.

The bottom line is there's very little about JG's play in that tiny sample size which indicates the guy is a future superstar in this league. Time will tell. But it's not that hard to see why nobody wanted to trade a first rounder for him.

I'm inclined to agree with you and had made something of the same argument back in March/April, but the sheer volume of reports and amount of media chatter sure make it seem like a high round pick was offered. Who really knows, though?

Nobody knows for sure. But I agree supafly, there was quite a bit of media noise on this to suggest that maybe Cleveland did offer a first rounder. For example:

Browns still trying to acquire Patriots QB Jimmy Garoppolo

"Cabot reports that “the Browns may have offered” the #12 pick to the Patriots, but the Patriots weren’t interested." (Note: "Cabot" is Mary Kay Cabot, who writes for cleveland.com, not a Boston media site)

So yeah, speculation, not known fact. But BB does seem to like JG quite a bit. Schefter has been all over this (Adam Schefter thinks Patriots will try to keep Jimmy Garoppolo):

"The New England Patriots may have big plans for Jimmy Garoppolo. At the very least, they seem to be interested in keeping the 25-year-old signal-caller in the organization for the next two seasons.

ESPN’s Adam Schefter appeared on Bleacher Report’s “Stick to Football” podcast on Thursday. Schefter said the Patriots “were never trading Jimmy Garoppolo,” which is something he reported time and time again leading up to the 2017 NFL Draft. Schefter thinks the decision not to move the quarterback shows they have plans to keep Garoppolo around beyond his rookie deal which expires after the 2017 season.

“Now, again, going forward, how is that going to operate and how is that going to work? Are the Patriots going risk losing Jimmy Garoppolo? My own sense is no,” Schefter said. “They are going to figure out a way one way or another to keep him there whether that means signing him to an extension, or franchising him, or making it work. We’ll see how that plays out, but I don’t think they are going to lose him. I don’t think they want to lose him. I think they recognize how good they think he is — many of us don’t know that right now, because we haven’t seen him play on a consistent basis. But they have. They’ve watched him practice. They’ve seen him in practice. They know what he is and isn’t capable of. They are big believers in him.”"

 

[sb1]

Nobody knows for sure. But I agree supafly, there was quite a bit of media noise on this to suggest that maybe Cleveland did offer a first rounder. For example:

Browns still trying to acquire Patriots QB Jimmy Garoppolo

"Cabot reports that “the Browns may have offered” the #12 pick to the Patriots, but the Patriots weren’t interested." (Note: "Cabot" is Mary Kay Cabot, who writes for cleveland.com, not a Boston media site)

So yeah, speculation, not known fact. But BB does seem to like JG quite a bit. Schefter has been all over this (Adam Schefter thinks Patriots will try to keep Jimmy Garoppolo):

"The New England Patriots may have big plans for Jimmy Garoppolo. At the very least, they seem to be interested in keeping the 25-year-old signal-caller in the organization for the next two seasons.

ESPN’s Adam Schefter appeared on Bleacher Report’s “Stick to Football” podcast on Thursday. Schefter said the Patriots “were never trading Jimmy Garoppolo,” which is something he reported time and time again leading up to the 2017 NFL Draft. Schefter thinks the decision not to move the quarterback shows they have plans to keep Garoppolo around beyond his rookie deal which expires after the 2017 season.

“Now, again, going forward, how is that going to operate and how is that going to work? Are the Patriots going risk losing Jimmy Garoppolo? My own sense is no,” Schefter said. “They are going to figure out a way one way or another to keep him there whether that means signing him to an extension, or franchising him, or making it work. We’ll see how that plays out, but I don’t think they are going to lose him. I don’t think they want to lose him. I think they recognize how good they think he is — many of us don’t know that right now, because we haven’t seen him play on a consistent basis. But they have. They’ve watched him practice. They’ve seen him in practice. They know what he is and isn’t capable of. They are big believers in him.”"

Lots of "may", "we'll see", "I think", "seem to be" and not a whole lot of substantial evidence that a first round pick was on the table. I read Cabot's tweets, she was the only one that mattered outside of Boston that that kept riding this horse all the way up to the draft. Some of her tweets sounded to me like wishful thinking over anything else.

If I'm wrong I'd be absolutely flabbergasted that BB would do something as monumentally stupid as turn down a high first round pick for effectively a rental of JG. Another JG won't be that hard to find.

 

[Ring 6]

How many Patriots fans are "in a hurry to push Tom Brady out the door"? Can you give a number?

Appear to be quite a few. I haven't counted. You can if you like.

Such general questions are worthless. You haven't quantified "Patriots fans" or "Dolphin fans". There's no way to quantify "appreciation". You're just throwing crap against the wall.

If you think the appreciation fans show for someone who has given them what Brady has given this fan base is worthless then i have your answer.

So what are you complaining about, exactly?

That many fans on this board have no appreciation for what Tom Brady has done and is still doing and devalue him. Havent you been reading?

 

[Ring 6]

Lots of "may", "we'll see", "I think", "seem to be" and not a whole lot of substantial evidence that a first round pick was on the table. I read Cabot's tweets, she was the only one that mattered outside of Boston that that kept riding this horse all the way up to the draft. Some of her tweets sounded to me like wishful thinking over anything else.

If I'm wrong I'd be absolutely flabbergasted that BB would do something as monumentally stupid as turn down a high first round pick for effectively a rental of JG. Another JG won't be that hard to find.

Turn down or delay a year?