PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Training Camp Day 5

2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 0% at BUF: 0%
Sun
Nov 1st

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
BS . Gunner didn't outplay Harry and it's pathetic you'd say so. It screams at how badly you understand football.
My man, you are going to give yourself a rage widow maker over a pro football team that you talk about on a message board. You really need to calm down. It’s not that serious.
 

signbabybrady

Pro Bowl Player
You guys are brutal. Can't even get more than 2 weeks into your second camp without getting completely written off.

That said get your ass on the field Harry.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
This is why it was smart to get Cam.

Otherwise Hoyer would be the presumed starter, and the backup would be.. Edelman?





If this is your position, make sure that you don't listen to, or read, Zolak's take on Newton and his shoulder.
 

Hammer of Thor

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
This is something the board continues to ignore.
Yeah, but you’re seeming to ignore that they’ve made only 5 first round selections during that time and the picks were 23, 29, 31, 32, and 32. Not all 1st round picks are equal, overall draft success rates are a lot less for picks 20+ than earlier (where BB’s record is pretty much unblemished). This doesn’t mean they can’t do better — 1 (maybe 1.5 or 2 if Sony pans out or if you give Brown credit for at least being NFL starter caliber) out of 5 is still bad no matter how you slice it, the Easley pick was really indefensible given what we now know the team knew about him then, and maybe the team should have been more aggressive in trading up and/or not trading back and out. But this needs to be kept in mind when comparing to other teams’ drafting records, like the Jets.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yeah, but you’re seeming to ignore that they’ve made only 5 first round selections during that time and the picks were 23, 29, 31, 32, and 32. Not all 1st round picks are equal, overall draft success rates are a lot less for picks 20+ than earlier (where BB’s record is pretty much unblemished). This doesn’t mean they can’t do better — 1 (maybe 1.5 or 2 if Sony pans out or if you give Brown credit for at least being NFL starter caliber) out of 5 is still bad no matter how you slice it, the Easley pick was really indefensible given what we now know the team knew about him then, and maybe the team should have been more aggressive in trading up and/or not trading back and out. But this needs to be kept in mind when comparing to other teams’ drafting records, like the Jets.


How the Patriots got where they are: College draft edition
 

Conflicted Panthers fan

Practice Squad Player


If this is your position, make sure that you don't listen to, or read, Zolak's take on Newton and his shoulder.

link? I couldn't find anything from zolak about the shoulder. I did see Jonathan Jones with a piece on CBS Sports today basically say the same thing I said two weeks ago, that the real test of the shoulder will be in November.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yeah, but you’re seeming to ignore that they’ve made only 5 first round selections during that time and the picks were 23, 29, 31, 32, and 32. Not all 1st round picks are equal, overall draft success rates are a lot less for picks 20+ than earlier (where BB’s record is pretty much unblemished). This doesn’t mean they can’t do better — 1 (maybe 1.5 or 2 if Sony pans out or if you give Brown credit for at least being NFL starter caliber) out of 5 is still bad no matter how you slice it, the Easley pick was really indefensible given what we now know the team knew about him then, and maybe the team should have been more aggressive in trading up and/or not trading back and out. But this needs to be kept in mind when comparing to other teams’ drafting records, like the Jets.


Is the suggestion that Belichick chose the best WR available when he chose Harry?
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
link? I couldn't find anything from zolak about the shoulder. I did see Jonathan Jones with a piece on CBS Sports today basically say the same thing I said two weeks ago, that the real test of the shoulder will be in November.

You'd probably have to go back and listen to Zo on the radio. Zo was talking about the arm angle and some other things, and pointing out that he's seen that sort of thing before in QBs who still weren't all the way back with their shoulders.
 

Hammer of Thor

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Is the suggestion that Belichick chose the best WR available when he chose Harry?
Nope. It’s a response to, “This is something the board has continued to ignore,” which was a response to the comment that the majority of our top picks since 2013 haven’t panned out.

I’m just noting that given their drafting position, they weren’t going to be all home runs. And noting it doesn’t excuse them, but I wouldn’t put them in with the Jets or Browns just yet.

Thanks for that. I was responding about the top pick specifically, but certainly overall it’s not looking good at all. Interesting quote from Kontradiction there regarding tanking to get a better draft spot. Frankly that might be a reasonable option - we know BB can do well with very early picks, why not play to his strength and against his weaknesses (which is part of his overall coaching philosophy).
I guess I have no real point and will just shut up now. :(
 

borg

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
the best route runner in camp; knows the playbook better than anyone not names Jules

Being a veteran is a negative to many, those who would refer have all UDFA's.
But does he run these exceptional routes with any kind of speed?
 

TheRainMaker

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Yeah, but you’re seeming to ignore that they’ve made only 5 first round selections during that time and the picks were 23, 29, 31, 32, and 32. Not all 1st round picks are equal, overall draft success rates are a lot less for picks 20+ than earlier (where BB’s record is pretty much unblemished). This doesn’t mean they can’t do better — 1 (maybe 1.5 or 2 if Sony pans out or if you give Brown credit for at least being NFL starter caliber) out of 5 is still bad no matter how you slice it, the Easley pick was really indefensible given what we now know the team knew about him then, and maybe the team should have been more aggressive in trading up and/or not trading back and out. But this needs to be kept in mind when comparing to other teams’ drafting records, like the Jets.
We are lucky the team was even able to squeeze out 3 more Super Bowls given the drafts between 2013-2019. And we are really lucky they pulled two wins out of their a**es in 2014 and 2016. Got exposed in 2017.

But their last run of dominating the AFC was due to the nucleus that was built from their classes of 2010-12. Edelman and the return of Chung from their 2009 class saw returns in 2014. And throw in Thuney, Mason and White.

I don't like the "they pick late excuse" as there's plenty of talent in the draft, especially since BB trades down so much and accumulates more picks than most teams. And there's no denying BB and the 2nd round hasn't gone well for years.

The Easley pick was unacceptable having two bad knees coming out of college. Thought BB would've learned his lesson from Ras I-Dowling.

I'm not that much of a Sony hater as he made the most of his opportunity in 2018.
 
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BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Harry has to get on the field & perform but some are really giving up on him too fast.

1)He wasn't making it past 35-40. I've heard a few different teams were interested but mainly the 49ers. They made no secret about how much they liked him. You could argue he was WR1/2 on ours & their boards.
John Lynch explains how N'Keal Harry led 49ers ... - 49ers Webzone

NFL rumors: 49ers targeting N'Keal Harry, Deebo ... - NBC Sports

So the idea that we picked him out of thin air is nuts. He was a FO phenom that exploded onto the scene and had scouts at his games since HS.

Injuries have sucked but have a little more faith.

The draft is a beast. It's not easy. Evaluating prospects is hard but that's where it ends for me. The other tough part and maybe tougher part is deciding if that prospect will fit on that 53, with the coaching staff/trainers, GM ... That's something people always forget. You're evaluating a prospect and how they'll fit on your team.

I a 2nd on Butler, Deebo, Harry, Brown, DK, McLaurin, Brown, Hardman ... So far so good ... I really think Harry belongs here.
Back to the draft being a beast ... 2017 3rd round. We take Garcia & Rivers ( @captain stone ;)) while Godwin, Hunt, Kamara, John Johnson, Shaq Griffin & Kupp were on the board. I had a 2nd on all except Kamara. He literally just missed and graded out high 3rd. I embarrassing forgot to eval Kupp before the draft so I leave him off my sheet but would of had a 3rd on him.

Its a funny beast.

2)He passed the film test. Can line up at big slot, X/Z, motion. I questioned very early on if he'll ever be a true #1 & that his release was the big concern but he's a fine prospect.
Move him around, like we've doing using motion but continue that between inside/outside. He has to be worked in a certain way early on bc of press/physical corners.
He's more than capable ...


3)He passed the athletic testing & profile. 3 cone was between 6.88-7.05 depending on your stopwatch. 6'2/225 ran 4.53, 38.5 vert & put up almost 30 reps of 225.

Also broke out early & often in college
Screenshot_2020-08-21-16-55-15~2.png

Think he deserves the year. Regardless the wr corp needs a lot more help if no one steps up between now & next draft.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Harry has to get on the field & perform but some are really giving up on him too fast.

1)He wasn't making it past 35-40. I've heard a few different teams were interested but mainly the 49ers. They made no secret about how much they liked him. You could argue he was WR1/2 on ours & their boards.
John Lynch explains how N'Keal Harry led 49ers ... - 49ers Webzone

NFL rumors: 49ers targeting N'Keal Harry, Deebo ... - NBC Sports

So the idea that we picked him out of thin air is nuts. He was a FO phenom that exploded onto the scene and had scouts at his games since HS.

Injuries have sucked but have a little more faith.

The draft is a beast. It's not easy. Evaluating prospects is hard but that's where it ends for me. The other tough part and maybe tougher part is deciding if that prospect will fit on that 53, with the coaching staff/trainers, GM ... That's something people always forget. You're evaluating a prospect and how they'll fit on your team.

I a 2nd on Butler, Deebo, Harry, Brown, DK, McLaurin, Brown, Hardman ... So far so good ... I really think Harry belongs here.
Back to the draft being a beast ... 2017 3rd round. We take Garcia & Rivers ( @captain stone ;)) while Godwin, Hunt, Kamara, John Johnson, Shaq Griffin & Kupp were on the board. I had a 2nd on all except Kamara. He literally just missed and graded out high 3rd. I embarrassing forgot to eval Kupp before the draft so I leave him off my sheet but would of had a 3rd on him.

Its a funny beast.

2)He passed the film test. Can line up at big slot, X/Z, motion. I questioned very early on if he'll ever be a true #1 & that his release was the big concern but he's a fine prospect.
Move him around, like we've doing using motion but continue that between inside/outside. He has to be worked in a certain way early on bc of press/physical corners.
He's more than capable ...


3)He passed the athletic testing & profile. 3 cone was between 6.88-7.05 depending on your stopwatch. 6'2/225 ran 4.53, 38.5 vert & put up almost 30 reps of 225.

Also broke out early & often in college
View attachment 28227

Think he deserves the year. Regardless the wr corp needs a lot more help if no one steps up between now & next draft.
Trust me I told you Derek Rivers (autocorrect stills knows what's up) was going to be great.
 

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