Reiss: Pats won’t pick up 5th year option on DTs Danny Shelton and Malcolm Brown

[FoxboroFlyer]

Eh, they're ALL replaceable. Such is life.

 

[Joey007]

I would welcome that.

Do we have a player that is a decent candidate to be traded that would be valuable to them? I can’t see them shipping him over to us without some sort of helpful immediate impact in return.

 

[RayClay]

Yeah I agree, especially since they just gave up a 3rd rounder for him. If he walks, it’s a waste.

The Sunk Cost Fallacy

 

[RayClay]

Same as Shelton’s. They’re both DTs. Around 7m.

Why pay that? Just cause there is an an option?Are other teams offering 7 million for them?

 

[HailHydra]

Speaking of trading away third rounders. We have 3 next year. I’m hoping we can ship another away for a DE, say like Dante Fowler Jr who the Jags declined his 5th year option today.

2 *

 

[50-yard-line]

They didn't pick up Dorsett at 9m either, nor should they - for any of the three.

Same people whining here if they had picked up a 7m tag for either of the DTs would be whining that it was an overpay.

Shelton should be a better player than Branch was last year. Maybe not Branch two years ago, but last year. If he's not, he'll get cut, and Valentine will be there.

And they didn't give up a 3rd round pick, Felger.

 

[Ring 6]

A little bit of a surprise on the DTs, but it does make sense for potential comp picks. Belichick has said many times that he’s not afraid of free agency.

It’s better to work on a long term deal any time over the next 10 months than to extend them 1 year at big money, GUARANTEED FOR INJURY.

 

[patfanken]

A couple of comments on the comments:

1. Actually, I think this is a very smart move for the Pats. They now have the benefit of 2 starting quality NFL DT starters who are now playing for the next contract. What better motivation for each to have. I think of that as a plus

2. The likely outcome will be that the guy who has the best year is the guy who is going to get paid, another reason for each to be highly motivated this season. Again I LIKE the idea of having 2 highly motivated DT's playing defense for us.

3. On the X's and O's side, I think Shelton gives us the first true NT skill set we've had since Vince left. Both Guy and Brown have the ability to play 3-4 DE's, something we haven't had in a while as well. All that leads me to believe we might see more 3-4 this season.

Of course, that doesn't mean we will abandon the 4-3 look (or rather the 4-2-5 look) we've used as a base the last few years. But remember without premier individual pass rushers, the 3-4 looks give the DC more blitzing options and can be more confusing for the OL to find their blocks. When you don't have great individual rushers, you have to create them sometimes. Back in the first iteration of the Pats dynasty, their defenses usually ranked in the top 5 in sacks, yet very rarely had an individual with 10 or more. In fact IIRC, only Mike Vrabel hit double digits (12 in 2007).

It is also interesting to remember that BB doesn't value the great individual rusher as much as some coaches do (and about every fan ). He was fine with letting Chandler Jones go, and the end result was that the Pats scoring defense didn't suffer. While on the other hand, despite Jones' great sack numbers in AZ, his impact hasn't helped their overall defense.

We often forget it is NOT how well an individual does in a defense, it's how well the defense as a group performs. It doesn't provide much hype, but we've seen it work for the better part of 20 years. But we STILL keep forgetting the concept because, that kind of defense frustrates the hell out of us, despite helping us win a LOT of games.

4. After allowing the draft to settle in, my biggest take from this year is that Bill thinks NEXT year is the transition year to restock the core of young players. With 12 picks and likely 7 in the first 3 rounds, the Pats will maneuver to grab 5-7 guys who will end up being the core of the next iteration of the Pats

5. BTW- am I alone in thinking that the league has evolved to the point where team building has become more and more a year to year thing and less a "long-term plan" equation? Just sayin'.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

If he was such an impact run stuffer the browns wouldn't have been almost dead last in the nfl in rushing those two years. The browns got themselves a couple of players and it got better and they had no problems letting him go. I think fans here are hyping this guy up to the max!

The Browns offense has been consistently bad for years, but that won't stop Joe Thomas from getting a gold jacket five years from now.

A new GM that didn't draft Shelton had no problem letting him go from a defensive scheme that no longer fit his skillset. That happens all the time

Shelton hasn't lived up to the #12 pick, that's obvious. We don't need him to live up to it though because that's not what we invested.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

NFL Rankings

16
Beau Allen
Defensive Tackle $5,000,000


Stacy McGee
Defensive Tackle $5,000,000
18
DeForest Buckner
Defensive Tackle $4,547,749
19
Justin Ellis
Defensive Tackle $4,500,000
20
Corey Peters
Defensive Tackle $4,000,000


Earl Mitchell
Defensive Tackle $4,000,000
22
Abry Jones
Defensive Tackle $3,875,000
23
Clinton McDonald
Defensive Tackle $3,500,000
24
Sheldon Rankins
Defensive Tackle $3,200,412
25
Akeem Spence
Defensive Tackle $3,000,000
26
Danny Shelton
Defensive Tackle $2,925,917
27
Xavier Williams
Defensive Tackle $2,775,000
28
Vernon Butler
Defensive Tackle $2,099,129
29
Malcom Brown
Defensive Tackle $1,903,307

That average is going to rocket up when Donald gets hit 22+ apy

 

[maineman209]

If he was such an impact run stuffer the browns wouldn't have been almost dead last in the nfl in rushing those two years. The browns got themselves a couple of players and it got better and they had no problems letting him go. I think fans here are hyping this guy up to the max!

For one last time - in his second year playing NT in a 3-4 on a crappy Browns defense, he was their 5th leading tackler with 59 total tackles.

As crappy as the Pats defense was in 2005, Wilfork, in his second season playing NT in a 3-4 was the Pats 7th leading tackler with 54 total tackles.

I'm not hyping Shelton at all. I'm merely questioning where TF your perspective on him comes from. It certainly doesn't come from any understanding of football.

 

[maineman209]

You're reaching with this guy. He's supposed to be a space eater. Clog the line but the browns run defense was terrible those two years. I think bill took a chance to see if he can be the college player again. He

The Browns run defense was indeed terrible, but there were 11 players on that defense responsible for that - at least six other besides Shelton in the front-7 alone. And yet, Shelton was their 5th-leading tackler, and three of the four players who had more tackles were cornerbacks.

F**k it. I'm tire of trying to explain really basic sh*t to you.

 

[PP2]

1. Actually, I think this is a very smart move for the Pats. They now have the benefit of 2 starting quality NFL DT starters who are now playing for the next contract. What better motivation for each to have. I think of that as a plus

I can't remember the Pats ever picking up a 5th year option or paying someone on the last year (and highest pay) of their contract. I've always viewed the last year of anyone's contract, who has played for the Patriots (other than Brady) as a throwaway. If they liked someone, they always tore up the contract of that player before the last year kicked in.

That being said, you're right. By making sure this information gets out, before the season starts, they are lighting a fire under several feet.

Just another example of forward thinking.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

For one last time - in his second year playing NT in a 3-4 on a crappy Browns defense, he was their 5th leading tackler with 59 total tackles.

As crappy as the Pats defense was in 2005, Wilfork, in his second season playing NT in a 3-4 was the Pats 7th leading tackler with 54 total tackles.

I'm not hyping Shelton at all. I'm merely questioning where TF your perspective on him comes from. It certainly doesn't come from any understanding of football.

What don't you get? By the way the pats that year where top 8 in rushing defense. Obviously wilfork made a difference. Shelton it's supposed to make a difference and he hasn't ever since he got there meaning Cleveland and he was in his comfortable scheme the first two seasons.

By the way do you see him making the same impact as wilfork did?

 

[maineman209]

NFL Rankings

16
Beau Allen
Defensive Tackle $5,000,000


Stacy McGee
Defensive Tackle $5,000,000
18
DeForest Buckner
Defensive Tackle $4,547,749
19
Justin Ellis
Defensive Tackle $4,500,000
20
Corey Peters
Defensive Tackle $4,000,000


Earl Mitchell
Defensive Tackle $4,000,000
22
Abry Jones
Defensive Tackle $3,875,000
23
Clinton McDonald
Defensive Tackle $3,500,000
24
Sheldon Rankins
Defensive Tackle $3,200,412
25
Akeem Spence
Defensive Tackle $3,000,000
26
Danny Shelton
Defensive Tackle $2,925,917
27
Xavier Williams
Defensive Tackle $2,775,000
28
Vernon Butler
Defensive Tackle $2,099,129
29
Malcom Brown
Defensive Tackle $1,903,307

Here are some comps, just taking the players who are making $7.1M or more ...

2015-2017 production, ordered by sacks:

Kawann Short 48 gms 24.5 sk 159 tkls $17.0M
Fletcher Cox 46 gms 21.5 sk 140 tkls $22.0M
Gerald McCoy 45 gms 21.5 sk 115 tkls $15.9M
Malik Jackson 48 gms 20.0 sk 119 tkls $14.3M
Jurrell Casey 47 gms 18.0 sk 158 tkls $15.1M
Mike Daniels 46 gms 13.0 sk 131 tkls $10.3M
Leonard Williams 48 gms 12.0 sk 178 tkls $14.2M option (picked up)
Timmy Jernigan 38 gms 11.5 sk 97 tkls $12.0M
Malcolm Brown 45 gms 8.5 sk 147 tkls $ 7.1M option declined
Linval Joseph 44 gms 8.0 sk 201 tkls $12.6M
Grady Jarrett 47 gms 8.0 sk 127 tkls $ 7.1M option pending
Sheldon Richardson 41 gms 7.5 sk 141 tkls $ 8.0M
Marcell Dareus 37 gms 7.5 sk 118 tkls $16.1M
Michael Brockers 45 gms 7.5 sk 117 tkls $11.1M
Star Lotulelei 46 gms 6.5 sk 73 tkls $10.0M
Dontari Poe 45 gms 5.0 sk 105 tkls $ 9.3M
Damon Harrison 47 gms 4.5 sk 234 tkls $ 9.3M
Corey Liuget 39 gms 4.5 sk 92 tkls $10.3M
Brandon Williams 44 gms 3.0 sk 134 tkls $10.5M


2015-2017 production, ordered by tackles:

Damon Harrison 47 gms 4.5 sk 234 tkls $ 9.3M
Linval Joseph 44 gms 8.0 sk 201 tkls $12.6M
Leonard Williams 48 gms 12.0 sk 178 tkls $14.2M option (picked up)
Kawann Short 48 gms 24.5 sk 159 tkls $17.0M
Jurrell Casey 47 gms 18.0 sk 158 tkls $15.1M
Malcolm Brown 45 gms 8.5 sk 147 tkls $ 7.1M option declined
Sheldon Richardson 41 gms 7.5 sk 141 tkls $ 8.0M
Fletcher Cox 46 gms 21.5 sk 140 tkls $22.0M
Mike Daniels 46 gms 13.0 sk 131 tkls $10.3M
Grady Jarrett 47 gms 8.0 sk 127 tkls $ 7.1M option pending
Malik Jackson 48 gms 20.0 sk 119 tkls $14.3M
Marcell Dareus 37 gms 7.5 sk 118 tkls $16.1M
Gerald McCoy 45 gms 21.5 sk 115 tkls $15.9M
Michael Brockers 45 gms 7.5 sk 117 tkls $11.1M
Dontari Poe 45 gms 5.0 sk 105 tkls $ 9.3M
Timmy Jernigan 38 gms 11.5 sk 97 tkls $12.0M
Star Lotulelei 46 gms 6.5 sk 73 tkls $10.0M

 

[RobertWeathers]

I can't remember the Pats ever picking up a 5th year option or paying someone on the last year (and highest pay) of their contract. I've always viewed the last year of anyone's contract, who has played for the Patriots (other than Brady) as a throwaway. If they liked someone, they always tore up the contract of that player before the last year kicked in.

That being said, you're right. By making sure this information gets out, before the season starts, they are lighting a fire under several feet.

Just another example of forward thinking.

With High and Jones they picked up the 5th yr option.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, the player who has a great season will be paid, probably by another team with lots and lots of cap room.

A couple of comments on the comments:


2. The likely outcome will be that the guy who has the best year is the guy who is going to get paid, another reason for each to be highly motivated this season.

 

[Miguel]

I can't remember the Pats ever picking up a 5th year option or paying someone on the last year (and highest pay) of their contract.

Nate Solder and Dont'a Hightower. Picked up Chandler Jones' option and then traded him during his option year.

 

[PP2]

With High and Jones they picked up the 5th yr option.

Of their rookie contracts. I should have made that distinction.

 

[Ring 6]

Of their rookie contracts. I should have made that distinction.

It was the 5th year option of their rookie contracts.