Football Outsiders gone?

Kasmir · Sep 3, 2023

The Football Outsiders site has been down for a few days now:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/

Aaron Schatz, their founder and the inventor of DVOA (etc) left in July:

He's now at FTNNetwork as Chief Analytics officer

Football Outsiders founder and EIC Aaron Schatz resigns after 20 years, shortly after troubling Champion Gaming financials emerge

In 2003, Aaron Schatz started Football Outsiders. He's now moving on. And that comes around financial issues at FO parent Champion Gaming.

awfulannouncing.com

If FO is really gone -- and its parent company is apparently facing bankruptcy -- DVOA is being maintained by Aaron at FTN...

FTN Fantasy: Rankings, Tools, Projections for NFL and More Sports

Fantasy is your home for season-long fantasy sports rankings, draft advice, & best ball. Featuring lines, odds, livestreams, articles, and podcasts from top experts. Sign up today!

www.ftnfantasy.com

...but it will cost $4.99/month...

Pricing - FTNFantasy

Top expert advice in season-long fantasy sports with rankings, draft advice, & latest news. Featuring lines, odds, livestreams, articles, and podcasts.Sign up today for around $price!

www.ftnfantasy.com

...but includes all of FTN's STATS+ (but not fantasy stats).

TheRainMaker · Sep 3, 2023

Maybe they are being bought out.

Kasmir · Sep 3, 2023

TheRainMaker said:
Maybe they are being bought out.

Given that Aaron apparently has the rights to update the DVOA databases from FTN, I doubt it.

sb1 · Sep 3, 2023

The People Who Acquired Football Outsiders Are Screwing The People Who Built It | Defector

In mid-April, a Canadian sports media company called Champion Gaming published a triumphant press release touting the success of its product, the football analytics website Football Outsiders. “In 2022 Football Outsiders hit over 2 million new users for the first time in the publication’s...

defector.com

slam · Sep 3, 2023

Classic case of Enshittification.

Kasmir · Sep 3, 2023

sb1 said:
The People Who Acquired Football Outsiders Are Screwing The People Who Built It | Defector

In mid-April, a Canadian sports media company called Champion Gaming published a triumphant press release touting the success of its product, the football analytics website Football Outsiders. “In 2022 Football Outsiders hit over 2 million new users for the first time in the publication’s...

defector.com

Thanks. And that was before Aaron Schatz resigned on July 6th

sb1 · Sep 3, 2023

Kasmir said:
Thanks. And that was before Aaron Schatz resigned on July 6th

Yup.

Doesn’t sound like whoever bought them was that stable.

Ross12 · Sep 3, 2023

So it sounds like - another company bought FO many months ago, stopped paying everyone for their work shortly after the acquisition, and let the website slowly die.

Pape · Sep 4, 2023

Also

Ross12 said:
So it sounds like - another company bought FO many months ago, stopped paying everyone for their work shortly after the acquisition, and let the website slowly die.

Sounds like they tried to suck every dollar out of the site and let it go to pot

Kasmir · Sep 4, 2023

Site is still offline BTW.

Kasmir · Sep 6, 2023

Just paid for the FTN Stats+ package. Wish that I hadn't. The DVOA feature appears to be one year only, and lacks all the "positional" breakouts, line DVOA and DYAR!

It's possible I'm missing how to get those full DVOA stats, but as it stands it's a pale shadow of what FO used to offer (which I also paid for).

Looks like DYAR and their positional stats are offered in their Fantasy+ package which I'm not interested in buying, and nothing has been said about access to the multi-year stats

WinstonSmith · Sep 6, 2023

Kasmir said:
Just paid for the FTN Stats+ package. Wish that I hadn't. The DVOA feature appears to be one year only, and lacks all the "positional" breakouts, line DVOA and DYAR!

It's possible I'm missing how to get those full DVOA stats, but as it stands it's a pale shadow of what FO used to offer (which I also paid for).

Looks like DYAR and their positional stats are offered in their Fantasy+ package which I'm not interested in buying, and nothing has been said about access to the multi-year stats

How much are the respective subcriptions?

Kasmir · Sep 6, 2023

WinstonSmith said:
How much are the respective subcriptions?

The Stats+ subscription I have with the crippled DVOA is $4.99/month.

I'm not sure which package has the expanded DVOA including DYAR, or if any provide access to the historical DVOA database. I'm not even sure if FTN has full rights to that database.

They have a bewildering number of additional packages ranging from $24/month to $99/month. My guess is they are offering the DYAR + positional DVOA only in their expensive fantasy packages because they hope fantasy bettors will buy it for insight into skill position performance.

Pricing - FTNFantasy

Top expert advice in season-long fantasy sports with rankings, draft advice, & latest news. Featuring lines, odds, livestreams, articles, and podcasts.Sign up today for around $price!

www.ftnfantasy.com

stinkypete · Sep 7, 2023

slam said:
Classic case of Enshittification.

Thanks for the new word.

PFF must be the king of sports Enshittification.

Wozzy · Sep 7, 2023

DVOA was worthless before, now it’s worth less than nothing.

rkarp1 · Sep 7, 2023

Wozzy said:
DVOA was worthless before, now it’s worth less than nothing.

wet toilet paper is reserved for PFF
ya got anything else in that small brain?

Wozzy · Sep 7, 2023

rkarp1 said:
wet toilet paper is reserved for PFF
ya got anything else in that small brain?

Your brain is very spacious and empty, I enjoy living there rent free.

Most football analytics are junk science.

rkarp1 · Sep 7, 2023

Wozzy said:
Your brain is very spacious and empty, I enjoy living there rent free.

Most football analytics are junk science.

if you are living here, drinks are at 5:00

Wozzy · Sep 7, 2023

rkarp1 said:
if you are living here, drinks are at 5:00

Sometimes earlier….

rkarp1 · Sep 7, 2023

Wozzy said:
Sometimes earlier….

sometimes? often

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