Re-watch Thread NE @ TB

[Tony2046]

Two more run plays with Gillislee. They actually successfully ran it three times in a row but the third one got called back because of a bogus holding penalty on Solder. That penalty was called because Solder's block looked so goofy and the DE sold it by dramatically falling to the ground. I'll post a screenshot of it.

EDIT: All -22 became available while creating this post so I put all three run plays in a Video at the bottom of the post.

1st Qtr:
1ST & 10 AT NE 47(04:30) | 04:30
(Shotgun) M.Gillislee left tackle to TB 47 for 6 yards (J.Evans).

Man blocking scheme.

1. Thuney drills his assigned DT 2+ yards downfield.
2. Solder blocks DE (who is trying to get around the edge) to the left. Creates a lane between Thuney and Solder.
3. Dorsett blocks the DB into the pile on Thuney's side. Further clears a lane towards the left side of the field.
4. Although the play runs to the weak side Shaq Mason bulls his way to the second level. Allen does as well and does it while his head is being jacked back. (Hey Ref.... Where's the hands to the face call??)
5. Gillislee blasts through the lane and picks up 6 yards.




Notice Shaq in the second level, Thuney/Solder creating the lane and Dorsett clearing the DB out.



2ND & 4 AT TB 47(04:13) | 04:13
M.Gillislee right tackle to TB 40 for 7 yards (K.Beckwith, N.Spence).

Man blocking scheme again.

1. Allen goes into motion but moves into full back position.
2. Gillislee runs between Cannon and Shaq Mason. Without the all 22 it's tough to see how big the lane was but from the broadcast view it looks tight. Gillislee powers his way through it.
3. Allen gives both Andrews and Shaq assistance. Not sure how much. He may have missed his assignment.
4. Receivers add blocking down field. Dorsett is impressive.
5. Gillislee picks up 7 yards.




Notice how far into the second level S. Mason is. It looks like Allen was to act as a Fullback but missed the lane. (Not sure)
Also notice the receivers doing their part in the blocking scheme. Dorsett is quick off the line getting to his assignment.





All three runs from all 22.

Video play #: 1st Qtr

1. 1ST & 10 AT NE 47: 04:30 (Shotgun) M.Gillislee left tackle to TB 47 for 6 yards (J.Evans).
2. 2ND & 4 AT TB 47: 04:13 M.Gillislee right tackle to TB 40 for 7 yards (K.Beckwith, N.Spence).
3. 1ST & 10 AT TB 40: 03:50 M.Gillislee right tackle to TB 31 for 9 yards (J.Evans). PENALTY on NE-N.Solder, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at TB 40 - No Play.

 

[Tony2046]

From what I saw there were a lot of similarities- Cover 1 robber with Harmon as the single high, Chung in the box and McCourty in Rat but also having MOF responsibility. Butler, Gilmore, and Chung all played quite a bit of man.

Watching the all 22 now. They played both zone and man. Most of the first qtr Gilmore was in man but near the end of the first and into the second he was definitely playing zone.

 

[captain stone]

I also agree with Romo's analysis: Harmon takes a bad angle.

Which should come as a surprise to absolutely nobody.

Duh-Wrong Harmon takes bad angles all of…the damn…time.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think you meant 92. If so then he was a peripheral victim of the Shag attack. Mason and Devlin blocked the linebackers hard towards the sideline which impeded 92 enough from chasing down the play.

Just watched it again, nope, it was 99. He quit so hard that 92 looked like a high-motor guy by comparison

He's coming from the bottom of the play, slows down, turns, jogs with the play some, smokes a cigarette around halfway through (not really, but close, when there's a pile-up that looks like it'll develop into a tackle,) then steps on it and accelerates back to a slackadaisical jog until the end of the play.

Now I know why they have alarm clocks on their jerseys, to wake that guy up when the play is over.

 

[Tony2046]

Just watched it again, nope, it was 99. He quit so hard that 92 looked like a high-motor guy by comparison

He's coming from the bottom of the play, slows down, turns, jogs with the play some, smokes a cigarette around halfway through (not really, but close, when there's a pile-up that looks like it'll develop into a tackle,) then steps on it and accelerates back to a slackadaisical jog until the end of the play.

Now I know why they have alarm clocks on their jerseys, to wake that guy up when the play is over.

OK. I stand corrected. I see who you're talking about now. My apologies.

Btw: The alarm clock numbers thing is hilarious.

 

[Joker]

I'm a big Tony2046 fan. Just sayin'....

 

[PatsFanInVa]

OK. I stand corrected. I see who you're talking about now. My apologies.

Btw: The alarm clock numbers thing is hilarious.

I go by the old theory that if it's funny once, it's twice as funny the second time, and from there it's your basic Fibonacci sequence of funny...

 

[Joker]

posting Fibonacci sequences after 12 a.m. is a class A felony in most states. Consider this your last warning

 

[supafly]

Nice breakdown on the 3 run plays, Tony. Here's some of what I get out of it:

-Gilleslee has had 2 games in a row where he's been effective. He's running hard and downhill on a lot of these, and I think we're starting to see what was advertised. He hits the hole quickly and seems to run with some power. I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of games where he's fed the ball a bit more in a run-heavy type of gameplan. I'd like to see another 5 carries or so on a more consistent basis.

-Shaq Mason is an exceptional run blocker, just like we thought before the draft. Unfortunately, he still has a weakness in pass protection, which is also what we expected from him. I don't believe that he's been as effective in pass protection as last season, as I see his name come up quite a bit in the weekly Herald breakdowns for individual assignments/stats. Solder is getting a lot of negative attention and rightfully so, but it's looking like Mason has taken a step back in his protection, as well. Really, one can make a strong argument that all 5 of the OL starters haven't look as good, but it's Mason who has been standing out a bit, at least on that right side. Perhaps it's partially due to Andrews, too.

-Although he isn't getting many looks, Dorsett has impressed me, so far. He's blocking effectively (a huge part of WR responsibilities that are often overlooked outside of N.England), he's fast as all hell, and he hasn't stood out in any negative way, whatsoever. That's huge for a new addition to the WR group in and of itself, and more than any of us reasonably expected. I'd still like to see them get him more involved with some of the designed plays that may be specifically for him. The Jet sweep, the out and up, a couple of well-timed crossers, and something I've been pounding the table for: the bubble screen! Get him the ball on the bubble screen. Have some guys blocking out front, and let him utilize that speed. He's not going to be targeted too much barring injuries, but I'd love to see him get a few looks per game. Either way, I'm more excited about him than I initially was and I think he has the potential to be a nice piece in the coming years, too.

-Allen is just letting us down in both blocking and receiving. I stood up for him up until a couple of weeks ago, but word started to spread that he wasn't finishing his blocks and looking a bit lazy. We saw him miss his assignment in one of the plays that you posted, here, and he also allowed a few plays where he got manhandled on the line. I even noticed a series where we were running in a short yardage situation in back to back plays, and he wasn't even on the field. My fear is that with each passing week he may be getting further away from jelling in this system. I certainly don't think his blocking has sucked or anything. He's not necessarily a liability, but he sure as hell isn't living up to the reputation that he had as being one of the league's better blocking TEs, either.

 

[PP2]

Watching the all 22 now. They played both zone and man. Most of the first qtr Gilmore was in man but near the end of the first and into the second he was definitely playing zone.

You're correct- from the bits and pieces I've been able to rewatch, it looks like cover 1 and 3 were our go-to covers until the 4th quarter. Through the first 3 quarters we had them just about shut down- now what happened in the 4th? One thing I noticed was that we stopped rushing Jameis, something I wasn't happy with.

Now that we have plenty of time before the next game, I hope we can go into more analysis- on the top of my list is to find out why the OL has been horrendous.

Thanks to you and @luuked, and @NE-VT for all the work you do with the rewatch threads, it's my new favorite go to thread.

 

[Tony2046]

Nice breakdown on the 3 run plays, Tony. Here's some of what I get out of it:

-Gilleslee has had 2 games in a row where he's been effective. He's running hard and downhill on a lot of these, and I think we're starting to see what was advertised. He hits the hole quickly and seems to run with some power. I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of games where he's fed the ball a bit more in a run-heavy type of gameplan. I'd like to see another 5 carries or so on a more consistent basis.

-Shaq Mason is an exceptional run blocker, just like we thought before the draft. Unfortunately, he still has a weakness in pass protection, which is also what we expected from him. I don't believe that he's been as effective in pass protection as last season, as I see his name come up quite a bit in the weekly Herald breakdowns for individual assignments/stats. Solder is getting a lot of negative attention and rightfully so, but it's looking like Mason has taken a step back in his protection, as well. Really, one can make a strong argument that all 5 of the OL starters haven't look as good, but it's Mason who has been standing out a bit, at least on that right side. Perhaps it's partially due to Andrews, too.

-Although he isn't getting many looks, Dorsett has impressed me, so far. He's blocking effectively (a huge part of WR responsibilities that are often overlooked outside of N.England), he's fast as all hell, and he hasn't stood out in any negative way, whatsoever. That's huge for a new addition to the WR group in and of itself, and more than any of us reasonably expected. I'd still like to see them get him more involved with some of the designed plays that may be specifically for him. The Jet sweep, the out and up, a couple of well-timed crossers, and something I've been pounding the table for: the bubble screen! Get him the ball on the bubble screen. Have some guys blocking out front, and let him utilize that speed. He's not going to be targeted too much barring injuries, but I'd love to see him get a few looks per game. Either way, I'm more excited about him than I initially was and I think he has the potential to be a nice piece in the coming years, too.

-Allen is just letting us down in both blocking and receiving. I stood up for him up until a couple of weeks ago, but word started to spread that he wasn't finishing his blocks and looking a bit lazy. We saw him miss his assignment in one of the plays that you posted, here, and he also allowed a few plays where he got manhandled on the line. I even noticed a series where we were running in a short yardage situation in back to back plays, and he wasn't even on the field. My fear is that with each passing week he may be getting further away from jelling in this system. I certainly don't think his blocking has sucked or anything. He's not necessarily a liability, but he sure as hell isn't living up to the reputation that he had as being one of the league's better blocking TEs, either.

I'm not sure about Allen either but I think it's just taking longer to catch on than we had hoped for. It would be nice if he and Brady could connect on those wide open plays. Anyways I'm still holding out hope that he'll catch on.

Earlier in this thread @long distance posted a PFF chart that stated that Mason was the Pats best pass blocker for that game. Caught me a little off guard because during rewatches I've seen him miss some assignments. So maybe he's improving. But the guy is a beast when it comes to run blocking. Thuney has improved in run blocking as well.

I hope they can run more as well if only to reduce the hits Brady's taking.

Dorsett will get his share sometime during the season. That guy seems to be in all the right places all the time. Another great pickup.

 

[Tony2046]

You're correct- from the bits and pieces I've been able to rewatch, it looks like cover 1 and 3 were our go-to covers until the 4th quarter. Through the first 3 quarters we had them just about shut down- now what happened in the 4th? One thing I noticed was that we stopped rushing Jameis, something I wasn't happy with.

Now that we have plenty of time before the next game, I hope we can go into more analysis- on the top of my list is to find out why the OL has been horrendous.

Thanks to you and @luuked, and @NE-VT for all the work you do with the rewatch threads, it's my new favorite go to thread.

I think Solder is playing injured and may have been sore as hell playing on a short week. He looked awkward at times and slow. Hopefully the ten days off will do him some good. He has been the weakest link on the line but if he can nurse himself back to health the oline will look a lot better. Cannon was nursing a sore ankle. Not sure if he still is or not.

I'm curious of how they will look next Sunday after some rest. That will be a good game to judge them on.

 

[long distance]

I think Solder is playing injured and may have been sore as hell playing on a short week. He looked awkward at times and slow. Hopefully the ten days off will do him some good. He has been the weakest link on the line but if he can nurse himself back to health the oline will look a lot better. Cannon was nursing a sore ankle. Not sure if he still is or not.

I'm curious of how they will look next Sunday after some rest. That will be a good game to judge them on.

Don't believe its injury w Solder “unfortunately“. But there is something. He was listed on injury report with non injury related designation. Can be some sort of recurring illness, personal stuff, family..

 

[Tony2046]

Don't believe its injury w Solder “unfortunately“. But there is something. He was listed on injury report with non injury related designation. Can be some sort of recurring illness, personal stuff, family..

Man. I hope it's nothing serious.

 

[luuked]

. Through the first 3 quarters we had them just about shut down- now what happened in the 4th?

If you ask me what happened was situational football.

We turned the ball over on offense already twice on that day and the OL kept losing battles so the priority of the offense became eating up time and not risking turnovers.

On defense until it becomes a one possession game we also prioritized running down the clock over short giving up short yardage.

The one play that stands out is the Jackson catch and run on which Butler was lined up too far back. People critizised him for giving that much of a cushion to Jackson since he essentially gave up the first down marker but I dont see a big issue with that. Being 9 points up with 10 minutes to go it is more important to defend a potential home run ball than giving up a first down far in Bucs territory. What killed them on that play was that Harmon took a bad angle and couldnt get to Jackson otherwise this would have been a 12-15yd gain instead of 40+.

But the way Butler positioned himself conservatively indicates clearly to me that we had gone into time management mode at that point. And when the Bucs missed a FG after a 5min drive we just did the same again just with far less time (and shrinking playbook) for the Bucs.

I am more encouraged by them giving up less than 100 yds in the first three quarters than discouraged what happened at the end.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Don't believe its injury w Solder “unfortunately“. But there is something. He was listed on injury report with non injury related designation. Can be some sort of recurring illness, personal stuff, family..

Jesus I hope his kid's cancer is still in remission....

Nate too for that matter..

 

[NE-VT]

But the way Butler positioned himself conservatively indicates clearly to me that we had gone into time management mode at that point. And when the Bucs missed a FG after a 5min drive we just did the same again just with far less time (and shrinking playbook) for the Bucs.

I completely agree that a reasonable way to play that situation is to play super conservatively to waste the clock. Another way to play it is to try to actually stop them on 3rd & 2. I also agree with you that the first is probably better: TB's opponent at that point in the game is the clock, we just need to make them move it slowly. I believe this is why we punted to set this play up.

The fundamental problem IMO is that the linebackers seem to get sucked into play action once again. If we are going for the "time off the clock strategy", there is no reason to sell out to prevent the run there. There were 2 ways to play the situation, and the LBs and Butler seemed to make different decisions.

I agree with @AndyJohnson that it might have been a cover 1 with a QB spy. It is just super hard to tell with a quick slant and a play action. If we assume cover 1, Butler needs to step up. If we were going for the clock run out strategy I am not sure cover 1 rat is the best play call; you are committing 5 defenders to rush/contain the QB and stop that couple yards yet you only have one safety in case someone gets beat deep.

I would rather have gone with a cover 3, which is what I thought everyone besides the LBs were doing. Make Winston wait for receivers to find holes in the zone, have the defense dropping deep enough so they can't get yards in chunks.

I think that this is a subtle example of not being on the same page as a defense rather than a more blatant busts like in the CAR game.

 

[luuked]

I completely agree that a reasonable way to play that situation is to play super conservatively to waste the clock. Another way to play it is to try to actually stop them on 3rd & 2. I agree with you that the first is probably better: TB's opponent at that point in the game is the clock, we just need to make them move it slowly. I believe this is why we punted to set this play up.

The fundamental problem IMO is that the linebackers seem to get sucked into play action once again. If we are going for the "time off the clock strategy", there is no reason to sell out to prevent the run there. There were 2 ways to play the situation, and the LBs and Butler seemed to make different decisions.

I agree with @AndyJohnson that it might have been a cover 1 with a QB spy. In this case Butler needs to step up. It is just super hard to tell with a quick slant and a play action. If we were going for the clock run out strategy I am not sure cover 1 rat is the best play call; you are committing 5 defenders to rush the QB and stop that couple yards yet you only have safety in case someone gets beat deep.

I would rather have gone with a cover 3, which is what I thought everyone besides the LBs were doing. Make Winston wait for receivers to find holes in the zone, have the defense dropping deep enough so they can't get yards in chunks.

I think that this is a subtle example of not being on the same page as a defense rather than a more blatant bust like in the CAR game.

You might have nailed it in terms of coverage. It might have been a small bust or someone just got sucked in by something they saw.

I was looking at it from a far simpler perspective than that.

Mainly that a third down stop is great but the question is how much risk are you willing to take to make it happen at 3rd & short relative to how damaging allowing a big play in this position is. In any case the LBs should have not bitten so hard I agree.

I think we are deep in Ernie Adams territory right now.

 

[Ring 6]

I completely agree that a reasonable way to play that situation is to play super conservatively to waste the clock. Another way to play it is to try to actually stop them on 3rd & 2. I also agree with you that the first is probably better: TB's opponent at that point in the game is the clock, we just need to make them move it slowly. I believe this is why we punted to set this play up.

The fundamental problem IMO is that the linebackers seem to get sucked into play action once again. If we are going for the "time off the clock strategy", there is no reason to sell out to prevent the run there. There were 2 ways to play the situation, and the LBs and Butler seemed to make different decisions.

I agree with @AndyJohnson that it might have been a cover 1 with a QB spy. It is just super hard to tell with a quick slant and a play action. If we assume cover 1, Butler needs to step up. If we were going for the clock run out strategy I am not sure cover 1 rat is the best play call; you are committing 5 defenders to rush/contain the QB and stop that couple yards yet you only have one safety in case someone gets beat deep.

I would rather have gone with a cover 3, which is what I thought everyone besides the LBs were doing. Make Winston wait for receivers to find holes in the zone, have the defense dropping deep enough so they can't get yards in chunks.

I think that this is a subtle example of not being on the same page as a defense rather than a more blatant busts like in the CAR game.

I think watching this play they are definitely trying to get a stop.
What I see is

Definitely man coverage. No question.
Hightower has the RB.
Van noy had to be the spy. There is no other explanation for how he plays it
I don't see anyone biting on play action. Who do you see? HT plays it right. Van noy plays it right if he is spying and if he isn't spying he has never played football before.
Harmon is deep.
I see a defense totally in sync with a good play call except for butler. Now it's entirely possible that the call was play aggressive to get the stop but back off of Jackson because he is the deep threat and take your chances that they won't throw a quick slant to him also thinking that still had them inside the 20 because who would expect butler to be THAT far off and not come up and play the run after catch.

 

[Ring 6]

You might have nailed it in terms of coverage. It might have been a small bust or someone just got sucked in by something they saw.

I was looking at it from a far simpler perspective than that.

Mainly that a third down stop is great but the question is how much risk are you willing to take to make it happen at 3rd & short relative to how damaging allowing a big play in this position is. In any case the LBs should have not bitten so hard I agree.

I think we are deep in Ernie Adams territory right now.

Where do you see a LB biting hard on play action?
HT read it perfectly.
Van noy didn't even react to the play action he just stepped up into spy.
the only explanation for what van noy does is that he is assigned to spy. There are no other assignments ever given a LB that would have him do what he did. He stepped up after the weak play fake was long over.
He wasn't blitzing because he didn't blitz he just slowly moved into the area you would spy the QB from.

I actually like the play call. Except butler.
You rush 4. Play man. Safety over the top. One LB ends up free because the back stays in. The other has only a wr with man coverage and help over the top so you spy him in a QB who is a threat to run.
The only perplexing part is butler.
I have to believe they either read a tendency that Jackson goes deep out of that situation and formation or they just hedged the bet and if Tampa found that so be it but don't risk the homerun.