Rapoport: Patriots quietly bring in Lamar Jackson for Pre Draft Visit

[Ring 6]

Rating doesn't tell you much. Brissett had a lower yards/attempt, threw for far fewer touchdowns, and took nearly twice as many sacks (one every 10 dropbacks). He also had a top-10 wide receiver in Hilton and a good tight end in Doyle to throw to, while Newton was stuck with Funchess and Byrd. McCaffrey was Newton's safety valve and his yards per attempt have sank from a league high in his MVP season as he's lost his downfield threats (Smith, LaFell, Ginn, etc.)

Newton does throw too many picks, and that hurts his QB rating. He's certainly not Brady as a passer, but that's not a fair comparison either because the number of passers who are Brady's level can be counted on one hand, maybe one finger. But it's worth noting that Cam's only 28 and Brady didn't turn into the all-world QB we know and love until his age 29-30 seasons, either. Note that Brady also had interception percentages around 3% until 2006 or so, as well, when he was a year older than Newton will be this year.

And 2017 Brady wouldn't have been 2017 Brady if he was throwing to the likes of Funchess and Byrd instead of Gronk and Cooks and Amendola, either. Supporting cast matters and, despite the insistence of Andy Johnson, the Panthers' skill position players have been wanting most of his career.

Andy Johnson insists on judging a player by their results on the field not excuses.

 

[sircole]

Andy Johnson insists on judging a player by their results on the field not excuses.

I have nothing to add in the Lamar Jackson argument...

But for going into 3rd person mode like The Rock, I'm going to give you a win.

 

[Nunchucks]

Especially when we all know QBs who worked like mad and CAN'T do it.

Is that true? I wish we could come up with some work ethic score for QBs. Lets also not forget the vast number of times a QBs progress is derailed by injury. Newton has been fighting nagging injuries throughout his career. A product of his physical running style.

 

[Kontradiction]

NFL Media pushes anonymous negativity about Lamar Jackson

 

[Ring 6]

I have nothing to add in the Lamar Jackson argument...

But for going into 3rd person mode like The Rock, I'm going to give you a win.

Perhaps Andy Johnson will write all of andy Johnson’s posts that way now

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Perhaps Andy Johnson will write all of andy Johnson’s posts that way now

If you do you will be put on ignore

 

[Deus Irae]

The second best QB in the league can run outside the pocket.

The second best QB in the league also lost more than half of last season because he was hurt while rolling out, and has a history of leg injuries (as one would expect of a running QB), though he's been able to play through those.

 

[Ring 6]

If you do you will be put on ignore

Dont tempt Andy Johnson

 

[Simpelton]

Is that true? I wish we could come up with some work ethic score for QBs. Lets also not forget the vast number of times a QBs progress is derailed by injury. Newton has been fighting nagging injuries throughout his career. A product of his physical running style.

I think there's a lot of arguing from the conclusion that happens when people evaluate work ethic at the NFL level. A few people can coast on talent but not very many, most of the athletes at the NFL are working their asses off all the time.

There's a tendency to ascribe success to hard work, which has a strong basis in fact, but then to also argue the reverse and assume that lack of success was due to lack of hard work, when that's far from the case. A guy like Josh McCown works his tail off to be average because that's the most his talent can do for him. Matt Cassell by all accounts was a workaholic and managed to leverage not much talent into a moderately successful career as an NFL journeyman.

I'm just saying, while hard work combined with talent can lead to elite performances, and hard work on its own will improve your skills no matter what level you're at, hard work alone is not a panacea if it's not matched with the ability to put a good suite of skills out there at the NFL level. Lots of guys worked hard and never got close to the pros.

 

[Simpelton]

Rating doesn't tell you much. Brissett had a lower yards/attempt, threw for far fewer touchdowns, and took nearly twice as many sacks (one every 10 dropbacks). He also had a top-10 wide receiver in Hilton and a good tight end in Doyle to throw to, while Newton was stuck with Funchess and Byrd. McCaffrey was Newton's safety valve and his yards per attempt have sank from a league high in his MVP season as he's lost his downfield threats (Smith, LaFell, Ginn, etc.)

Newton does throw too many picks, and that hurts his QB rating. He's certainly not Brady as a passer, but that's not a fair comparison either because the number of passers who are Brady's level can be counted on one hand, maybe one finger. But it's worth noting that Cam's only 28 and Brady didn't turn into the all-world QB we know and love until his age 29-30 seasons, either. Note that Brady also had interception percentages around 3% until 2006 or so, as well, when he was a year older than Newton will be this year.

And 2017 Brady wouldn't have been 2017 Brady if he was throwing to the likes of Funchess and Byrd instead of Gronk and Cooks and Amendola, either. Supporting cast matters and, despite the insistence of Andy Johnson, the Panthers' skill position players have been wanting most of his career.

While none of that is wrong, I still think that the fact that Newton's performance as a passer is in the same universe as Brissett's, considering the vast difference in perceived talent between the two men, is still illustrative. Especially because most factors such as experience, relative team strength and offensive support should be solidly favoring Cam, who had a playoff caliber team around him, compared to Brisset, who very definitely did not.

Quick, without looking, tell me who Jacoby Brissett's #2 receiving option was.

Either Jacoby Brisset is somewhat better than we're giving him credit for, or Cam Newton is substantially worse.

Or both.

 

[lancerman]

The second best QB in the league also lost more than half of last season because he was hurt while rolling out, and has a history of leg injuries (as one would expect of a running QB), though he's been able to play through those.

And if every team had to redraft today every single team including this one would take him round one

 

[Deus Irae]

And if every team had to redraft today every single team including this one would take him round one

What the hell are you talking about? Not one team would take Rodgers over Brady. Even Cleveland would get that right.

But that's not even relevant to the general issue of run v. pocket. Exceptions aren't the rule, by definition.

There's nothing wrong with having a "pocket" QB who can run. But the list of successful NFL true quality QBs who aren't/weren't "pocket" QBs in their thoughts can be read off of one hand, and you'd still have fingers to spare.

 

[SVN]

NFL Media pushes anonymous negativity about Lamar Jackson

 

[Vindicate]

Dont tempt Andy Johnson

George is getting upset!

 

[Uptown]

 

[TriplecHamp]

either scouting a qb we're seeing 2x a year or doing do diligence on an "intriguing" option to groom under Brady.

 

[manxman2601]

either scouting a qb we're seeing 2x a year or doing do diligence on an "intriguing" option to groom under Brady.

Or scouting the first round QB most likely to be in range.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

So we know who our first round pick will be...Andy Johnson is going to be thrilled.

 

[fightingirish595]

I’ve just asked this in the draft forum. What do you think his floor is? Colin Kaepernick? What about his upside? Pre dog-fighting Michael Vick? A slighter Cam Newton?

Can any of those guys legitimately read a defense. Maybe mike Vick. The other 2... no

 

[Kdo5]

I'll believe it when I see it on draft night. I would be a little stunned, even with these reports. If Belichick is willing to use a first rounder on him instead of a defensive player he (and McDaniels) must love what they see,