Rapoport: Patriots quietly bring in Lamar Jackson for Pre Draft Visit

[primetime]

I would rather have a guy who focused on becoming great at passing, than a guy who was also focusing on his running game at the expense (since there's only so many hours in a practice session) of the pass game.

It's not a video game and this isn't an RPG character. Jackson doesn't need to allocate limited skill points to develop his running ability. If the Patriots draft Lamar Jackson, they're not going to throw out their offense and start running the wishbone and the triple option, which is what a lot of people seem to imply with the "running quarterback" thing. He'll be a pocket passer, just like he was in college; he'll play similarly to Russell Wilson.

My point to the Flutie and Gannon examples was that there's no one profile for quarterbacks who play into their 40s. There's only a handful of these guys in league history and they're widely divergent in how they played football or what they were like coming into the NFL. Plenty of mobile quarterbacks entering the league like Gannon have reinvented themselves into traditional pocket passers as they got into their 30s. Eagles Vick was much less of a runner than Falcons Vick, and Vick played 15 years in the league. McCown's an interesting example because he was a proficient runner when he first came out and had 3 or 4 attempts per game when he was a starter in Arizona. He still had 3 rushing attempts per game last season in New York and scrambled well, scoring 5 rushing TDs.

 

[mgteich]

Jackson will be a bust in the NFL.

Mobile QBs always want to run to create plays. You can get away with it in college, but not in the NFL.

Is Cam a bust? Jackson will have a couple of years to learn the patriot system.

My issue isn't whether Jackson can play under center. I just don't know what changes will need to be made in the basic defense. Everyone now depends on the ability of the QB to read the defense, call the appropriate play, and deliver very quickly into a very small window.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is Cam a bust? Jackson will have a couple of years to learn the patriots system.

My issue isn't whether Jackson can play under center. I just don't know what changes will need to be made in the basic defense. Everyone now depends on the ability of the QB to read the defense, call the appropriate play, and deliver very quickly into a very small window.

No he won’t. Because they’re not picking him.

 

[Ring 6]

Is Cam a bust? Jackson will have a couple of years to learn the patriot system.

My issue isn't whether Jackson can play under center. I just don't know what changes will need to be made in the basic defense. Everyone now depends on the ability of the QB to read the defense, call the appropriate play, and deliver very quickly into a very small window.

Cam isn’t a bust but he isn’t a raging success either. Outside of one excellent season he is a barely over .500 qb with awful completion percentages and a weak td/int ratio.
And he is a good example because in the pocket he is bad and if he couldn’t run he wouldn’t have a job, and aside from one season the results aren’t so good with that type of qb.

 

[lancerman]

You can call me crazy all you want to, I want no part of a running QB. None. At all. EVER.

A QB's job is to throw the ball, if he can run, great, that'll help him when he rolls out of the pocket. If a guy isn't spending 80% of his plays in the pocket, I don't want him. At all.

I would legit rather have Kirk Cousins than Lamar Jackson under center for this team if it's curtains for Brady. Even an average pocket passer is a better fit for the Patriots offense than any so-called "athletic" QB.

I don't want a glorified running back under center because they tend to have the same longevity problems as running backs, only for a lot more money and with a lot more at stake if one gets seriously hurt. Losing a RB sucks, but losing a QB kills your season. there's too much at stake to let quarterbacks run.

For an example of what I mean, look what the loss of Deshaun Watson meant to the Texans this year. Running QBs put like 5x the wear and tear on themselves as pocket passers. They're explosive, but that works both ways, they can blow themselves up too and if that happens enough, you're very much screwed. Guys like that turn into RGIII as often as they make something more useful than themselves. It adds a ton of volatility to an already volatile investment and when you're hanging your hat on a guy as a franchise, extra volatility should be the literal last thing you want..

There's a GODDAMN REASON that the pocket passers are the guys playing into their 40s, and if you aren't a pocket passer playing that age, it's because you've learned to pass in the pocket. They're a much stabler investment. Gimme a guy who can throw the ball, and let the running backs run.

The second best QB in the league can run outside the pocket.

 

[Nunchucks]

Cam isn’t a bust but he isn’t a raging success either. Outside of one excellent season he is a barely over .500 qb with awful completion percentages and a weak td/int ratio.
And he is a good example because in the pocket he is bad and if he couldn’t run he wouldn’t have a job, and aside from one season the results aren’t so good with that type of qb.

Cam is not receiving or taking good QB coaching. I don't know which, but I believe (perhaps wrongly) that Cam Newton in the Patriots system would be closer to the MVP Cam than the 2017 Cam.

Riverboat Ronnie just ain't doing a good job in making Cam do the things that he needs to do to get better. I think that in the Patriots system, if Cam refused to improve or take coaching, he would be benched.....then he would see the light and do what needs to be done to get better.

 

[mgteich]

Cam isn’t a bust but he isn’t a raging success either. Outside of one excellent season he is a barely over .500 qb with awful completion percentages and a weak td/int ratio.
And he is a good example because in the pocket he is bad and if he couldn’t run he wouldn’t have a job, and aside from one season the results aren’t so good with that type of qb.

Let's be serious. For you, Ryan wasn't a raging success as a pick, or Eli.

Besides, his receiver corp has been woeful. (my computer filled in "woeful" when I tried to type "awful": I'll go with the computer).

 

[IllegalContact]

not taking anything away from brady, but his success has many others to credit for helping......and he did perfectly to take advantage

vs Rams, the defense slowed down the greatest show on turf to put him in position to finishe them off

vs Panthers, the protection scheme kept him untouched against a team that really brutalized QBs

vs eagles, defense made opposing qb literally puke

vs seahawks.......butler seals the deal

vs falcons.....edelman, hightower,flowers

it will still come down to the team making plays and the qb taking advantage

 

[primetime]

Cam is not receiving or taking good QB coaching. I don't know which, but I believe (perhaps wrongly) that Cam Newton in the Patriots system would be closer to the MVP Cam than the 2017 Cam.

Riverboat Ronnie just ain't doing a good job in making Cam do the things that he needs to do to get better. I think that in the Patriots system, if Cam refused to improve or take coaching, he would be benched.....then he would see the light and do what needs to be done to get better.

It would also help if he wasn't surrounded by utter garbage more or less his entire career. That offense is basically Cam Newton and nothing else. His MVP season came with his top two wide receivers as Ted Ginn and Philly Brown. Last year he had Devin Funchess and a bunch of undrafted players like Damiere Byrd and Russell Shepard, and on top of that Greg Olsen barely played. There's not a single Panthers skill position player I'd take over a comparable Patriots skill position player, and aside from Andrew Norwell his offensive line was pretty bad too.

 

[Ring 6]

Cam is not receiving or taking good QB coaching. I don't know which, but I believe (perhaps wrongly) that Cam Newton in the Patriots system would be closer to the MVP Cam than the 2017 Cam.

That’s just speculation with some hometown sprinkled in. If you are saying put cam in Brady’s place and run the same plays you are nuts. Cam would fail miserably. If you are saying B.B. and McD would create a system for him to do well in that’s really just an excuse.

Riverboat Ronnie just ain't doing a good job in making Cam do the things that he needs to do to get better.

Again just throwing blame elsewhere.

I think that in the Patriots system, if Cam refused to improve or take coaching, he would be benched.....then he would see the light and do what needs to be done to get better.

So you think he should be benched?
I’m not sure what you think he needs to do to get better but we can only deal with what he does on the field. Assuming there is improvement available but he doesn’t care enough to work at it both is wild speculation and if true a damning commentary on him.

 

[Ring 6]

It would also help if he wasn't surrounded by utter garbage more or less his entire career. That offense is basically Cam Newton and nothing else. His MVP season came with his top two wide receivers as Ted Ginn and Philly Brown. Last year he had Devin Funchess and a bunch of undrafted players like Damiere Byrd and Russell Shepard, and on top of that Greg Olsen barely played. There's not a single Panthers skill position player I'd take over a comparable Patriots skill position player, and aside from Andrew Norwell his offensive line was pretty bad too.

More excuse? Have you considered receivers don’t do well there because of him? Other teams seem to want them when they leave.

 

[primetime]

not taking anything away from brady, but his success has many others to credit for helping......and he did perfectly to take advantage

vs Rams, the defense slowed down the greatest show on turf to put him in position to finishe them off

vs Panthers, the protection scheme kept him untouched against a team that really brutalized QBs

vs eagles, defense made opposing qb literally puke

vs seahawks.......butler seals the deal

vs falcons.....edelman, hightower,flowers

it will still come down to the team making plays and the qb taking advantage

Yeah, it's worth noting to all the "Super Bowl wins determine everything about a QB" types that the Patriots could just as easily be 0-8 in Super Bowls had they a different kicker or the defense not made key stops; they could also easily be 8-0 had Wes Welker and Asante Samuel caught footballs or if they make a 4th down stop. All those games came down to coin flips, more or less, and often ones that had nothing to do directly with Brady himself.

 

[Ring 6]

Let's be serious. For you, Ryan wasn't a raging success as a pick, or Eli.

Ryan can still be fine, and in fact I walked back my comment on him. Eli is certainly not a raging success, unless you think they didn’t win SBs despite him being the qb.

Besides, his receiver corp has been woeful. (my computer filled in "woeful" when I tried to type "awful": I'll go with the computer).

I’m not concerned about excuses, I’m looking at what happens in the field.
So in your estimation newton has been fantastic and is a top 5 QBs or something like that?

 

[Nunchucks]

That’s just speculation with some hometown sprinkled in. If you are saying put cam in Brady’s place and run the same plays you are nuts. Cam would fail miserably. If you are saying B.B. and McD would create a system for him to do well in that’s really just an excuse.

Again just throwing blame elsewhere.

So you think he should be benched?
I’m not sure what you think he needs to do to get better but we can only deal with what he does on the field. Assuming there is improvement available but he doesn’t care enough to work at it both is wild speculation and if true a damning commentary on him.

First, I will agree. I do think that I am speculating that on the Patriots, with the best coaching staff in the league that Cam would be a more consistent and better player with better mechanics and a better understanding of offensive schemes and reading defenses. I acknowledge that I may just have rose colored glasses on with this belief.

I don't think Cam would run the "same" offense as Brady, just like Jimmy G ran a slightly different offense. The plays are tailored to the QBs strength to some extent. Brady picks his favorite plays from the extensive playbook, just as Cam would.

Yes, I think if Cam is not doing the things he needs to do to show improvement, he should be benched until he faulking gets it....

In my belief, Cam has gotten by on pure athletic ability and talent. He has not shown much improvement in touch passes or reading defenses.

 

[primetime]

More excuse? Have you considered receivers don’t do well there because of him? Other teams seem to want them when they leave.

Do they? Philly Brown's out of the league, wildly overrated Kelvin Benjamin did nothing of note after being traded, and Ted Ginn and Brandon LaFell are the same players they've always been. Aside from LaFell, who had one magical year with Brady and then went back to being a big receiver with bad hands, none of these guys have been more successful after leaving Carolina.

 

[IllegalContact]

Yeah, it's worth noting to all the "Super Bowl wins determine everything about a QB" types that the Patriots could just as easily be 0-8 in Super Bowls had they a different kicker or the defense not made key stops; they could also easily be 8-0 had Wes Welker and Asante Samuel caught footballs or if they make a 4th down stop. All those games came down to coin flips, more or less, and often ones that had nothing to do directly with Brady himself.

no need to get your britches in a wad

the point was actually about the QB taking advantage of the opportunities afforded them. situationally, both losses to the giants were likely wins if you shift the clock one minute...winning the game is not easy.......even for a goat

 

[Simpelton]

The second best QB in the league can run outside the pocket.

You're not even listening, much less responding to what I'm saying. I'm not saying that a running QB can't be successful. What I'm saying is that a QB who part of his job is to augment the running game is more volatile as an investment. Riskier. There is more that can go wrong, and a guy who part of his job is to run into the line, is going to suffer increased wear and tear compared to a pocket passer resulting in more injuries, and since pocket passing is 99% of a quarterback's job, I feel it's safer to invest in a guy who specialized in that style of play.

There is a reason that the only old QB are pocket passing QB, or former runners who transitioned into pocket passers as they accumulated wear and tear and slowed down.

I'm not even saying pocket passers are better per se, I'm saying they are safer investments.

Did you understand this time? I mean I can keep saying this until the penny drops if I have to.

 

[primetime]

no need to get your britches in a wad

the point was actually about the QB taking advantage of the opportunities afforded them. situationally, both losses to the giants were likely wins if you shift the clock one minute...winning the game is not easy.......even for a goat

I was agreeing with you.

 

[Nunchucks]

It would also help if he wasn't surrounded by utter garbage more or less his entire career. That offense is basically Cam Newton and nothing else. His MVP season came with his top two wide receivers as Ted Ginn and Philly Brown. Last year he had Devin Funchess and a bunch of undrafted players like Damiere Byrd and Russell Shepard, and on top of that Greg Olsen barely played. There's not a single Panthers skill position player I'd take over a comparable Patriots skill position player, and aside from Andrew Norwell his offensive line was pretty bad too.

I think he has had good talent around him. All teams have to deal with injuries. The good ones overcome.

 

[IllegalContact]

I was agreeing with you.

it sounded sarcastic......my bad

a little behind on my coffee consumption this morning