Rapoport : Jamie Collins extension will eclipse Kuechly's $12.36m avg per year

[bresna]

What's funny is that if the Browns let Collins walk and he gets the kind of deal that they are thinking of offering him, they'd probably get their 3rd round comp pick back in 2018.

 

[yukon cornelius]

and this is why some franchises will remain perpetual bottom feeders

 

[bbobbo]

Waiting to get this Hightower contract is going to blow up in the Patriots face, he has no reason to sign a discounted contract especially if the Patriots win it all again he'll have 2 rings and can go max out his contract elsewhere.

Why has this taken so long?

Linebacker franchise tag is gonna be around 15 million.

this is why you don't mess around with guys you want to keep and get deals done earlier rather than later......no need to put Hightower off.......unless they don't want to keep him that much......at some point, you have to pay someone on the defense

maybe hightower wants to test free agency. a lot of people wonder why the patriots don't just sign players early. it's a two-way street--the player also has to want to sign an early contract (at a presumable discount).

 

[Tuck]

this is why you don't mess around with guys you want to keep and get deals done earlier rather than later......no need to put Hightower off.......unless they don't want to keep him that much......at some point, you have to pay someone on the defense

I agree with what you're saying but I don't know that's what happened with The Hightower negotiation. there has to be a good faith effort on the part of the player and his agent too. For all we know free agency could be Hightower's end game all along.

 

[long distance]

Some people come to the game to win.
Some people come to the game to get paid.

Most of the first people get paid too..

 

[supafly]

I don't think Hightower will use the guy they gave away as his comparison in contract talks.

If the 12.5m a year rumors are true, someone will be bringing it up at some point. I'd be happy to have Hightower at 11m, although now I'm a bit skeptical as to whether enough money will be on the table.

 

[Ring 6]

If the 12.5m a year rumors are true, someone will be bringing it up at some point. I'd be happy to have Hightower at 11m, although now I'm a bit skeptical as to whether enough money will be on the table.

No I am saying Hightower will want A LOT more than what Collins gets.
I meant not use him as an anywhere near equal comparison.
They gave Collins away, Hightower has a pretty easy argument he is a better player. If they want him they should pay him more than the guy they gave away for peanuts got.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I've said this even before he was traded. Hes not that much better than he was when he broke out against Indy. Same player for the most part.

If Jones would have taken a Robert Quinn type deal I would have traded Jamie sooner.

 

[PittPatriot]

"Cashing in" isn't how I would exactly phrase it considering how he would've been a multi-millionaire regardless of whether it was here or in Cleveland. It just comes down to greed over legacy. Granted, he is more than likely getting more in Cleveland, but he was handed a golden opportunity to establish himself as a great player in an all-time organization where the sky was the limit. We all have different priorities and his was apparent.

His career will be about 4-7 more years, max. He is one injury away from having it end abruptly. He never requested a trade to CLE. He ended up there and they made him an offer he seems to like. I don't see where "greed" plays a role here.

 

[supafly]

No I am saying Hightower will want A LOT more than what Collins gets.
I meant not use him as an anywhere near equal comparison.
They gave Collins away, Hightower has a pretty easy argument he is a better player. If they want him they should pay him more than the guy they gave away for peanuts got.

I will be very concerned if it's going to take 13m plus to lock up Hightower.

Cleveland paying Collins more than Kuechly shows bad judgement on their part, at least in my opinion.

 

[Joey007]

maybe hightower wants to test free agency. a lot of people wonder why the patriots don't just sign players early. it's a two-way street--the player also has to want to sign an early contract (at a presumable discount).

Let's not forget that even McCourty almost left. He was extremely close to signing with the Eagles.

 

[varjao]

It's not because the Browns are overpaying Collins that BB will go out of the line to sign Hightower, value is value, we all know how BB operates. Hightower is not going to make more money because he is a better player than Collins, he would if Collins had gotten paid accordingly, he is going to make the same money (I believe) because that was his market already. If the players like to draw lines of comparison then we won't retain his services.

But the most important, just pay attention on the stupidity the Browns are doing, that's why they are the Browns and will never be a winning franchise. First they go into the season with 14 or 16 drafted rookies, then they have the worst season of the past decade and only won a game because it was against the Chargers (another joke). At times the Browns not even looked like a professional team and that's on Hue Jackson, he is probably going to have his ass fired in 11 months.

 

[Nehalem]

Cleveland paying Collins more than Kuechly shows bad judgement on their part, at least in my opinion.

Isn't there some part of the CBA where a team is required to spend some 90%+ of the salary over a 5 time period?

Since they are 100m+ under the cap for next year maybe they have to throw silly money around?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Let's not forget that even McCourty almost left. He was extremely close to signing with the Eagles.

Titans and Giants were in the mix too IIRC

 

[ViperGTS]

Let's not forget that even McCourty almost left. He was extremely close to signing with the Eagles.

It was the Giants. Not the Eagles.

And I have a dim view of any player who leaves a top notch organization if the team offers you a competitive offer, maybe not just the best. So if Hightower wants to go, fine. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I will be very concerned if it's going to take 13m plus to lock up Hightower.

Cleveland paying Collins more than Kuechly shows bad judgement on their part, at least in my opinion.

You can argue Luke'ss deal is antiquated but argue equally that Jamie doesn't have Luke's credentials and production to warrant being paid at the same tier.

 

[supafly]

Isn't there some part of the CBA where a team is required to spend some 90%+ of the salary over a 5 time period?

Since they are 100m+ under the cap for next year maybe they have to throw silly money around?

No, that doesn't relate to NE. They're spending to the cap in most years. Also, a projection around 50/60 percent of your "100 million under" is a much more realistic number. They are nowhere near 100 million dollars under the cap. That's a case of people here exaggerating (greatly).

Either way, Belichick isn't too likely to change up his value system based on how much money he has in his pocket, although there have been instances like McCourty where he chose to up his offer in the right situation. I'd have to imagine something similar with HT if he hits the open market. Bill can be more flexible with his offer with certain high quality players, but he's not going to throw around money like a drunken sailor just because they've earned a little wiggle room under the cap.

 

[Sciz]

Isn't there some part of the CBA where a team is required to spend some 90%+ of the salary over a 5 time period?

Since they are 100m+ under the cap for next year maybe they have to throw silly money around?

They just finished the 2013-2016 period with all teams in compliance, so now the only concern is not falling completely behind on the 2017-2020 period. It sounds like many in the media made a bigger deal of this cap floor than it deserved to be.

 

[Galeb]

Clearly he doesn't have the mental makeup for it. People can't change their brain type any more than they can their physical make up. You can get your brain "in shape", and shore up some of the weaknesses, but you can't become someone you aren't.

Everything we experience changes us. We are never the same from one moment to the next.

 

[patfanken]

some comments on the comments:

1. I have said on a number of occasions that playing in NE is NOT for everyone. It doesn't make them a bad football player or a bad person. Collins falls into that category.

2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was official that the Pats will get Cleveland's first 3rd round comp pick in this draft, which will be somewhere between 97-99

3. I wouldn't be surprised to see Collins have a great statistical year next season under the new Cleveland DC. He runs a penetrating one gap defense that fits Collins' skills perfectly.

4. Collins in some respects reminds me of Assante Samuels. The fans and the media focused hard on Samuels' playmaking and big play skills, while it was the Pats coaching staff that had to deal with the feast or famine results of his play. That's not to say Samuel wasn't a good CB (especially when playing zone) but FOR THE PRICE he was looking for, wasn't worth it here, especially when we were going to more press man coverages.

The same with Collins. He could be a human highlight reel, but the fans an media never saw the effects of his lack of discipline. No doubt he's good. No doubt this was the wrong system for him....at that kind of money.

5. Dependabilty is valued more in the Pats defensive system than pure raw talent. In an ideal world you get both, and it is certainly what they strive for, but the Pats will never pay top dollar to a guy they don't view as fully bought into their system and can be depended on to play within it. Collins didn't check off either box

6. He wasn't ever coming back so #98 for sure in 2017 was a lot better than the HOPE of #98 in 2018 plus 8 games in 2016.

7. There is absolutely no guarantee that the Pats would have gotten 3rd round compensation for Collins, despite his huge contract. The Pats have IIRC the 3rd or 4th most cap space in the league and it would only take one big FA signing or 2 or 3 mid range FA signings to balance that loss, and negate or severely lower any comp picks. Make no mistake the Pats will be VERY active in the FA market this spring.

8. Never forget the Pats WILL pay top dollar to those players who THEY view as being dependable and totally bought into the system. They did it with Wilfolk, Mankins, Seymore, Brady, and more recently McCourty. My guess is that they will do it again with Hightower.

9. The Pats have always been comfortable in letting players get to FA and find out what the market is, and when they do they offer a very competitive deal.

I remember when Welker was going through FA and I posted that I thought he was worth an 8MM/yr deal, and was blasted for low balling him. Well eventually the Market said he was worth only $6MM/yr. We countered with a Very competitive deal (in fact a bit better), and he still walked. We can talk about the "market" all day, but we never know what it actually will be until it actually happens.

10. I'm not sure if Collins' deal actually "sets" the market for Hightower. They have vastly different skill sets and could be viewed differently by other teams. Not as many highlight reel plays by Danta.

11. I think Hightower's value to the Pats is higher than it is to any other team in the league. THAT is why he will get a "market" deal from the Pats even if it is in the $12M/yr range. Not having to pay CJones and Collins gives us more than enough space.

12. Butler's RFA status really sucks for him. If the Pats put a first round tag on him (IIRC around 5MM/yr) it obviously would be a significant raise for him, but not nearly what he's been worth the last 2 seasons. But you have to wonder if there is really a team out there that would be willing to pay him over $10MM/yr AND give the Pats their first round pick, for a 5'10 CB who came into the league as an UDFA.

In an ideal world the Pats will work out a 2yr deal that will give him more money while still giving him a shot at true FA before he's 30. Maybe something like a 2 yr $16MM deal with $9MM up front. (with perhaps a phoney 3rd year for cap purposes) Not market money but more than he'd make playing for the first round tag.