Randy Moss, Richard Seymour, Ty Law Among HOF semi-finalists

[Deus Irae]

What duration is required to earn "best" ?

Other than Dillon and Moss, I don't think it matters. For them, I just considered the time too short to qualify.

How about a positional list based on Greatest Single Year by a Patriot?

Go for it.

 

[Kdo5]

I disagree. Moss is the best receiver in history. "Sticky gloves" might have piled up numbers, but HOF should be more than that. Was Rice anywhere near the threat to defenses Moss was at any time in his career? I think not. He was consistent.

It's why some mediocre pitchers who played long and amassed numbers are in the HOF and Luis Tiant isn't.

You won't hear an argument back from me. Rice is generally considered the GOAT receiver. Moss was definitely the most talented at the position and put up monster career numbers to go along with it.

 

[ALP]

That was the classic Borges arrogant, stupid quote of all time...

THATS IT!

id forgotten he also slammed Mankins!!

lmao wow that is just too good

 

[RobertWeathers]

Rodney

I loved Bru, but Rodney Harrison also excelled in big moments, is widely underrated, and I'd have to give him a slight edge.

Over Bru? Ugh. That's like picking a favorite child.

 

[jimnance]

Patriots best, by position, IMO:

Coach - BB
QB - Brady
RB - Cunningham (?). Martin (?), Nance (?)
TE - Gronk
WR - Welker
OL - Hannah
DL - Seymour
LB - Tippett
CB - Haynes
S - McCourty (?), Harrison (?)
K - Gostkowski
P - Camarillo

Honorable mentions: Morgan, Moss, Vinatieri, Armstrong, Coates, Wilfork, Nelson, Law

I've seen em all play and that's my list with one change- I'd put Morgan at wr with the honorable mention to Welker.
Morgan played at a time and on a team that ran more than it passed. If Stanley played with TB, his #'s would be among the all time NFL greats. (Assuming he wasn't in his 50's).

 

[Kontradiction]

I got into a huge debate with @MoLewisrocks about whether Moss was a first ballot HOFer back around 2010-2011. I said he was and Mo was convinced he wasn’t. It’s going to be interesting to see who was right.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Moss is the most physically gifted WR of all time, but still comes in at #2 to Rice imho.....


Mankins wasn't in Hannah's class.....loved Logan, had some really good years, and loved the edge he brought to the team.....but Hannah was a pure mauler, and was an even better leader

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Over Bru? Ugh. That's like picking a favorite child.

Just sayin', though... you FORGOT a child! Love Rodney and Bru both. Rodney seems a better HoF candidate, though Bru kinda defines the Patriot way.

 

[VegasGuy]

I got into a huge debate with @MoLewisrocks about whether Moss was a first ballot HOFer back around 2010-2011. I said he was and Mo was convinced he wasn’t. It’s going to be interesting to see who was right.

I really believe Moss will get in this year.
At least he should.

 

[Ring 6]

I disagree. Moss is the best receiver in history. "Sticky gloves" might have piled up numbers, but HOF should be more than that. Was Rice anywhere near the threat to defenses Moss was at any time in his career? I think not. He was consistent.

This is a ridiculous statement. I can only assume you never saw Rice play.
Rice DOMINATED. Rice also played in an era where there were fewer passes and it was more difficult to throw.
Rice led the NFL in receiving yards 6 times. Moss never did. I’m not going to go through the whole thing but using their top 5 seasons based on receiving yards rice had 7922 to moss 7322 and Rice’s 5th best was better than moss’ 2nd best.

It's why some mediocre pitchers who played long and amassed numbers are in the HOF and Luis Tiant isn't.

Um, wrong.

Moss played 16 seasons. Rice played 16 in sf

Comparing rice in sf to moss career:
Rice 1281/19247/176
Moss 982/15282/156
Rice had 300 more catches and 4000 more yards plus 20 more TDS playing when it was harder to throw than it was during moss’ career.

Btw Tiant played 19 years so he isn’t a very good example of being slighted for a short career.

 

[RayClay]

This is a ridiculous statement. I can only assume you never saw Rice play.
Rice DOMINATED. Rice also played in an era where there were fewer passes and it was more difficult to throw.
Rice led the NFL in receiving yards 6 times. Moss never did. I’m not going to go through the whole thing but using their top 5 seasons based on receiving yards rice had 7922 to moss 7322 and Rice’s 5th best was better than moss’ 2nd best.

Um, wrong.

Moss played 16 seasons. Rice played 16 in sf

Comparing rice in sf to moss career:
Rice 1281/19247/176
Moss 982/15282/156
Rice had 300 more catches and 4000 more yards plus 20 more TDS playing when it was harder to throw than it was during moss’ career.

Btw Tiant played 19 years so he isn’t a very good example of being slighted for a short career.

You're right, I never saw Rice play. San Francisco, right? I do think Moss was kind of dominant, though.

 

[Ring 6]

You're right, I never saw Rice play. San Fransisco, right. I do think Moss was kind of dominant, though.

Then you cant really make a valid comparison
Sure Moss was great. Rice was just better. There is no shame in that.

 

[PatriotReign]

Richard Seymour as a rookie hustled more than any DL I have seen in my life. He was chasing receivers 15 yards downfield after rushing the passer.
He was excellent at every aspect of his position.
Seymour was here for 8 years and I consider him all things considered the best defensive player the patriots have ever had.

What did you think of the trade when it first happened?

 

[Deus Irae]

Then you cant really make a valid comparison
Sure Moss was great. Rice was just better. There is no shame in that.

Rice was in a better situation, with better QB play, in a system designed for him to have more completions of shorter yardage (working more like Welker than Moss, in that sense, though deeper down the field), for most of his career. Was he the better WR? Maybe. Is it as cut and dry as people assume? I don't think so.

 

[Ring 6]

Rice was in a better situation, with better QB play, in a system designed for him to have more completions of shorter yardage (working more like Welker than Moss, in that sense, though deeper down the field), for most of his career. Was he the better WR? Maybe. Is it as cut and dry as people assume? I don't think so.

He averaged 15 ypc to moss’ 15.6 so it’s wasn’t a Welker short pass thing.
Rice produced more by a lot and that’s really the report card. Things such as qb, system, Randy ratio etc are window dressing.

 

[Ring 6]

What did you think of the trade when it first happened?

Didn’t like it but understood that sensible cap management meant both Seymour and wilfork couldn’t stay, that Seymour would, and did, demand huge money, and hated losing him but getting back a 1 was better than letting him walk for nothing.

 

[Deus Irae]

He averaged 15 ypc to moss’ 15.6 so it’s wasn’t a Welker short pass thing.
Rice produced more by a lot and that’s really the report card. Things such as qb, system, Randy ratio etc are window dressing.

Rice averaged 14.8, not 15, and I said it was more Welkerish than Moss, but deeper down the field, which it was. Taylor was more of the "Moss" role in SF, while he was there, for example.

And calling things like QB and system "window dressing" is asinine. As a Patriots fan, you've seen the proof of their importance enough that you should know that better than most.

 

[RayClay]

Then you cant really make a valid comparison
Sure Moss was great. Rice was just better. There is no shame in that.

I figured sarcasm was lost on you.

 

[RayClay]

Rice was in a better situation, with better QB play, in a system designed for him to have more completions of shorter yardage (working more like Welker than Moss, in that sense, though deeper down the field), for most of his career. Was he the better WR? Maybe. Is it as cut and dry as people assume? I don't think so.

Randy Moss May Well Have Been The Greatest Receiver Of All Time






Quarterback improvement with Moss. Int percentage increase due to more long throws?

 

[PatriotReign]

Didn’t like it but understood that sensible cap management meant both Seymour and wilfork couldn’t stay, that Seymour would, and did, demand huge money, and hated losing him but getting back a 1 was better than letting him walk for nothing.

At the time would you have preferred keeping Seymour over Wilfork?