DRAFT Patriots select WR Tyquan Thornton at 50.

[DaBruinz]

You need a suitor for Agholor. Teams could be skeptical about his value if they don't have a long-ball-throwing god, and forget the Bills because no. There's still time... especially because we haven't seen what guys have in camp. If all our new WRs are more bunk than binky, the best bet might be to see what he's got in '22, at least reap the benefit of a make-or-break year performance. (Although Parker is a safe-ish bet). I think you're right that we only keep Marcus Jones at the WTF position, although D'Eriq is calling to me binkily at the WTAF position.

I think there will be suitors for Agholor. Here is what I see:

Packers: Beside Christian Watkins, they have a 31 year old Cobb, Sammy Watkins and umm.. yeah.. Sammy has only broken 600 yards ONCE since 2015. No other WR on their current roster has more than 8 receptions in a season.

Ravens: Duvernay, Bateman, Tylan Wallace... They are going to be relying heavily on some no names to step up.

Falcons: Ridley is suspended. They drafted London. They have Zaccheus and Damiere Byrd.

Bears: They drafted Velus Jones. They have Darnell Mooney.. Byron Pringle, their free agent "splash" just got arrested for DUI. Chicago is a team that has space currently and could be willing to take on the contract.



Darkhorse (because of cap space):
Browns: They have Cooper and Peoples-Jones. They just drafted David Bell and Mike Woods. They also have Schwartz whom they drafted in 2021. An injury here could open up a trade partner.

 

[Salsalife]

T squared as in E=MTsquared, that's right I equated the T to the speed of light... equation swag

Nice...
TT barnum, T Sizzle, Mr. T, VelociTy, Tyquan be gone bra. Thats about it, gotta hear what the guys say in camp to really know.

 

[BTTA]

Why are you assuming there will be only 25 offensive players? The Patriots have used anywhere from 23 to 27 on offense over the years. Just like they've carried anywhere from 9-11 Offensive line players on the 53. It varies.

To even attempt to do what YOU want would be nothing but a silly wild assed guess. Especially with James White's status being up in the air since recent reports weren't promising that he'd be ready for Training Camp.

Maybe you should go back and look at the Roster tracking threads from the last few years to see just how many RBs and WRs the Patriots have carried.

Argumentative much? Jeez, just trying to have a conversation here. (And what's with the all caps?).

For what its worth, I have read those threads over the years. @mgteich usually starts them and they are some of the more informative threads on the forum. They are some already underway. It isn't a silly assed wild guess any more than everything else about personnel that's speculated on here. It is one of the more common games to play at this point in the season. Just one way to have some fun with something that's intended to be fun.

The Pats almost always split the roster 25/25/3. When they deviate from that by more than one, it is almost always because the special teams guys ended up concentrated on offense or defense, rather than equally distributed. Years with 4 QB's were one exception, but we haven't seen that in a while.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Nice...
TT barnum, T Sizzle, Mr. T, VelociTy, Tyquan be gone bra. Thats about it, gotta hear what the guys say in camp to really know.

Mac and Ts

Where's Cam when you need him oh that's right, nobody does

 

[Wozzy]

He's not the most elusive guy rn but this is a good way of looking at it. If he can really maximize his strengths it shouldn't matter that much.

I'd say one of his best attributes after being ridiculously fast is getting off press. Whether that translates to the NFL or not remains to be seen. And yea Mac needs to utilize him and Agholor for that matter.

If he can be elusive north/south that can be enough, Mac can put the ball on a dime from way out.

Only guys with 32 + arms were Burks, D Williams, Ezukanma, Pierce, Woods, London. I believe him and Williams (34/35?) might of had the longest but could be wrong.

33 3/8's"

Compared to the rest of the group, his skill set sticks out. Back to Agholor, he's not an elite guy but both have legit 4.2-4.3 speed. This should really open up the MOF if things work out.

I think it will be really interesting to see how this WR room shakes out. Despite the consternation of the weapon's crowd the Pats have a lot of talent there. I think beyond Agholor and Tyquan, there's also Tre Nixon who everyone has seemingly forgot, he has speed as well.

If by the end of training camp and preseason Thornton, Nixon and Wilkerson look really good, don't be surprised if a WR is traded. I could see Agholor getting moved if they can convince some WR needy team to eat that contract, or Meyers if they simply have a logjam. His contract demands might be more ambitious than they feel he deserves.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think there will be suitors for Agholor. Here is what I see:

Packers: Beside Christian Watkins, they have a 31 year old Cobb, Sammy Watkins and umm.. yeah.. Sammy has only broken 600 yards ONCE since 2015. No other WR on their current roster has more than 8 receptions in a season.

Ravens: Duvernay, Bateman, Tylan Wallace... They are going to be relying heavily on some no names to step up.

Falcons: Ridley is suspended. They drafted London. They have Zaccheus and Damiere Byrd.

Bears: They drafted Velus Jones. They have Darnell Mooney.. Byron Pringle, their free agent "splash" just got arrested for DUI. Chicago is a team that has space currently and could be willing to take on the contract.



Darkhorse (because of cap space):
Browns: They have Cooper and Peoples-Jones. They just drafted David Bell and Mike Woods. They also have Schwartz whom they drafted in 2021. An injury here could open up a trade partner.

Welp, it puts something like 10m back in our pockets if somebody buys his deal, if I understand it correctly. Somebody just has to be okay spending 10M on Agholor's level of production hoping for a bounceback, or be okay with 3 TDs and 473 yards for the remaining $ on the deal. He could also lower his price, but why? NE is as good a place as any to have your "I still got it" prove-it year. And the team might think he can be a weapon worth the second half of the deal. He seems to have off and on 700+ yard seaons, then really paltry prouction years. I could see them thinking it was a down year in the sine wave that is Nelson Agholor's production. So as you say, camp will tell. Idle thoughts, mainly filling out the logic behind that list....

Packers: Yeah, they have Pouty Mc12Thief I mean Rodgers capable of making the Agholor fit work, out of conference so that's good from our POV, and they always think they're thisssss close to the Super Bowl, so that's a good landing pad.

Ravens: Yeah they could very easily convince themselves they're 1 Agholor away from Lamar Jackson returning to something like 2019 form, minus quite as much runnning if they're smart. Running QBs break, and he's broken a number of ways that look run related.
Lamar Jackson - Injury History
2019 tells us he can pass and do it really well when the stars align (and he did THAT without strong receiver talent), so I could see them as another good fit. Pair an Agholor with that arm and you're off to the races, as long as he's Agholor 2020

Bears: I thought they were cap poor but maybe you're right and they've got space. But I'd look askance at the theory that Fields is 1 Agholor away from anything. Fields posted 7 TDs and 10 int. ... he's a project. Agholor's best used deep and Fields loves to throw deep, so if they have the money, I am sure he would appreciate the shiny new toy.

Did Pringle hit anybody and/or is he a repeat offender? If he just has to breathe into an interlock to drive to practice, he's very bad and shouldn't drink and drive, but he is still available.

I'm okay on the Browns dark horse thoughts.

In the end, NA is a proven okay receiver and will never be anybody's number 1, unless it's a Ravens-like team where the true no. 1 will be a TE. But that is also still us most years.

So if someone thinks he fills out the stable, I have no heartburn over losing that 470some yards and 3 TDs

 

[Love The Drake]

I would like to see Tyquan challenge Tyreek and DK to a foot race.

 

[TommyD4207]

I would like to see Tyquan challenge Tyreek and DK to a foot race.

I'd rather he just went out and caught footballs on game day.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I'd rather he just went out and caught footballs on game day.

And any foot races should be against DBs

Any DB that lets that happen has pretty much lost the matchup.

Okay I'm way too geeked about this guy now. I cannot wait to see him play in an NFL game or two. After this season we could be wondering whether we really have seen enough to give up on Wilkerson and Thornton.... or we could be laughing that we were all worried about whether X (e.g, Agholor) was still needed.

That uncertainty does bug me though and I am sure it bugs the Pats

 

[Salsalife]

Welp, it puts something like 10m back in our pockets if somebody buys his deal, if I understand it correctly. Somebody just has to be okay spending 10M on Agholor's level of production hoping for a bounceback, or be okay with 3 TDs and 473 yards for the remaining $ on the deal. He could also lower his price, but why? NE is as good a place as any to have your "I still got it" prove-it year. And the team might think he can be a weapon worth the second half of the deal. He seems to have off and on 700+ yard seaons, then really paltry prouction years. I could see them thinking it was a down year in the sine wave that is Nelson Agholor's production. So as you say, camp will tell. Idle thoughts, mainly filling out the logic behind that list....

Packers: Yeah, they have Pouty Mc12Thief I mean Rodgers capable of making the Agholor fit work, out of conference so that's good from our POV, and they always think they're thisssss close to the Super Bowl, so that's a good landing pad.

Ravens: Yeah they could very easily convince themselves they're 1 Agholor away from Lamar Jackson returning to something like 2019 form, minus quite as much runnning if they're smart. Running QBs break, and he's broken a number of ways that look run related.
Lamar Jackson - Injury History
2019 tells us he can pass and do it really well when the stars align (and he did THAT without strong receiver talent), so I could see them as another good fit. Pair an Agholor with that arm and you're off to the races, as long as he's Agholor 2020

Bears: I thought they were cap poor but maybe you're right and they've got space. But I'd look askance at the theory that Fields is 1 Agholor away from anything. Fields posted 7 TDs and 10 int. ... he's a project. Agholor's best used deep and Fields loves to throw deep, so if they have the money, I am sure he would appreciate the shiny new toy.

Did Pringle hit anybody and/or is he a repeat offender? If he just has to breathe into an interlock to drive to practice, he's very bad and shouldn't drink and drive, but he is still available.

I'm okay on the Browns dark horse thoughts.

In the end, NA is a proven okay receiver and will never be anybody's number 1, unless it's a Ravens-like team where the true no. 1 will be a TE. But that is also still us most years.

So if someone thinks he fills out the stable, I have no heartburn over losing that 470some yards and 3 TDs

Agreed. Plus Thorton is a high value YOUNG prospect that needs reps to get better sooner rather than later.

 

[JMC00]

Agholor was a disappointment and didn't even crack 500 yards despite getting paid double digit millions

Box score watching at its finest right here people. Might want to go watch some all-22. Agholor can't throw himself the ball.

In fact lets take a look at the top contracts for WR from the '21 FA

Kenny Golladay- 521 yards (76 targets)
Corey Davis- 492 yards (59 targets)
Agholor- 472 (64 targets)
Will Fuller- 26 yards (1 year 10m)
Curtis Samuel- 27 yards

None of them lived up to their deals in their 1st season

 

[PatsFanInVa]

@JMC00, He is what he is, Gisele (just bustin' chops). By the way, Nick Foles can throw the passes and catch them, I don't know why we can't. But seriously... since you countered box-score watching with other box score stats of guys from that same FA class... Well, okay, crappy FA class I guess.

10M per year is hardly way up there in receiver pay. (Just looked him up... on an APY basis, he's 27th in the league at 11M.) He's worth that in a good year, in Agholor terms, not worth it in the year he just had. But we probably dont see urgency to move him because the real question is, what do we have who's known to be better, and what will it cost us to GET someone we know will do better. Right now it costs 10M to not get worse, guaranteed-ish. He might get better as Mac gets better and the O line gets better.

Point also taken about 1st year of deals but this guy did only have a 2 year deal. If we have the talent available I could see moving him to save the cash.

But for all we know TT is for some reason the world's fastest water boy and Wilkerson had 1 wish granted by a magic lamp genie to have 1 big game in the NFL and will never see the field again.

I feel very strongly about both sides of every question. These cats are all simultaneously alive and dead until we open the box that is the 2022 NFL season.

All that is certain is that we're at the outset of an ero of asymptotic cap expansion that's going to make grocery store inflation look tame by comparison, and $10M is going to look like pretty cheap groceries.

And 1 more thing's certain, there is one safe name in New England, Brandon Harris Jones. If that guy is not in camp, anybody can get moved up, down, or out, yeah even including 10. Exhilarating!

 

[JMC00]

Wonder if he'll have conditioning problems in 86 degrees

 

[JMC00]

I think there will be suitors for Agholor

While there maybe suitors I'm not sure the Pats are going to seek to trade him. If an offer comes maybe they'll entertain it. But Harry will be traded or a camp cut. While they have Parker and Thornton. Parker has had a history of missing a game here and there and Thornton is a rookie. Gonna need the depth for training camp and a 17+ game season. It's not like they are on the hook long with him, after this year he's fully off the books. Pats have the 4th most cap space in to 2023 so it's not like they need his space this year to roll into next year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Doesn't trading Agholor come with a cap hit? That's probably the reason he stays. Unless we can get like a mid round pick in return, he will probably just run out his contract.

Although Thornton is a risky pick, and he went ahead of when he was projected, it doesn't mean it can't work out, it's just with the Patriots shoddy track record drafting WRs over the years, it's natural for people to be skeptical.

We won't know what we have until training camp competitions, and then we'll know where everyone's at. Preseason to me doesn't mean much but will give this group more reps together with Mac as their QB.

If we're talking just pure physical talent, then Devante Parker probably leads this group, but there's also the matter of actually comprehending, learning, and executing this complex offensive system.

In terms of pure talent, I'd rank the receivers - Devante Parker, Tyquan Thornton, Agholor, Bourne, Harry, Meyers. But we know Harry couldn't get open to save his life so his actual physical talent means very little when he can't turn himself into an open receiving target.

Best case scenario if everyone stays healthy, Devante Parker WR1, Tyquan Thornton speed WR2, Bourne Slot1, Meyers slot2, Harry traded for a draft pick, and Wilkerson WR5. Something like that is what I'd see if everyone pans out. But who knows. Let the camp competitions begin!

 

[VJCPatriot]

Wonder if he'll have conditioning problems in 86 degrees

Glad we didn't draft Burks then cos he would literally die in our games vs Miami. And we suck against Miami in general whenever we go down to Florida.

 

[Joker]

Glad we didn't draft Burks then cos he would literally die in our games vs Miami. And we suck against Miami in general whenever we go down to Florida.

ONE game a season in Miami...and it's the FIRST game this season which precludes any rookie WR draftee by the Patriots from performing in, as a rule the past TWENTY years.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Doesn't trading Agholor come with a cap hit? That's probably the reason he stays. Unless we can get like a mid round pick in return, he will probably just run out his contract.

Although Thornton is a risky pick, and he went ahead of when he was projected, it doesn't mean it can't work out, it's just with the Patriots shoddy track record drafting WRs over the years, it's natural for people to be skeptical.

We won't know what we have until training camp competitions, and then we'll know where everyone's at. Preseason to me doesn't mean much but will give this group more reps together with Mac as their QB.

If we're talking just pure physical talent, then Devante Parker probably leads this group, but there's also the matter of actually comprehending, learning, and executing this complex offensive system.

In terms of pure talent, I'd rank the receivers - Devante Parker, Tyquan Thornton, Agholor, Bourne, Harry, Meyers. But we know Harry couldn't get open to save his life so his actual physical talent means very little when he can't turn himself into an open receiving target.

Best case scenario if everyone stays healthy, Devante Parker WR1, Tyquan Thornton speed WR2, Bourne Slot1, Meyers slot2, Harry traded for a draft pick, and Wilkerson WR5. Something like that is what I'd see if everyone pans out. But who knows. Let the camp competitions begin!

Well, it comes with costing money we've paid out on signing, definitely. So no matter what else, 5M of the 10M signing bonus paid goes against this year's cap, and I'm not sure how much the suitor can or cannot pay and why. I'm not a cap wiz. Here are the raw numbers. I thought everything to do with salary--not signing bonus-- could be picked up by the new team? Who knows. I know he had 16m guaranteed, and last year we did pay 7M against the cap, splitting 5M of the bonus into this year.

This page says 10M in dead cap in 22. So we have to give him 5M to go away and possibly sign another contract that makes any kind of no-trade-guarantee go away? Maybe I don't understand. But we'd still have already paid him 7M to play last year, plus 5M to not play this year. It seems like what we could escape is the roughly 1M roster bonus and the 9M salary, but I'll let the smart people explain about how salary is guaranteed and whether we can get out of it for the next team to pay.

Nelson Agholor

Nelson Agholor contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

In any event, it's a chunk of change to not play.

While we're on trades I just saw that Stidham might be Raiders bound. Jarrett, we hardly knew ye.

 

[Uptown]

I’m obviously excited about the element of speed that Thornton brings, but even more intrigued by the nuances of his game which will augment his skill set.




“There is more to playing football than running a 40-yard dash, of course. So how Thornton's scorching speed is blended into the Patriots' overall system -- and if he can master a variety of routes -- will be one of the key determinants of whether the team had a successful draft.”

“Gates, who worked with the 6-foot-2, 181-pound Thornton for a 10-week stretch that began in early January, is optimistic.”

"When we started pre-testing, I was like, 'Man, we've got something here,'" he said. "Super smooth. Super explosive. And honestly, for a guy that is that fast, you don't typically see someone who can change directions and catch the ball well. A lot of times you'll see straight-ahead wide receivers who can blow the top off it, but they can't run a route. Tyquan can do all that -- he's got good hands, he's smart, he picks things up quick."

One example of how Thornton picks things up came early in the 10 weeks spent training with Gates.

"His technique wasn't great. Even though he had a track background, we just had to tighten up some things on his start and a few things along the way," Gates said. "It clicked right away."

 

[Salsalife]

I’m obviously excited about the element of speed that Thornton brings, but even more intrigued by the nuances of his game which will augment his skill set.




“There is more to playing football than running a 40-yard dash, of course. So how Thornton's scorching speed is blended into the Patriots' overall system -- and if he can master a variety of routes -- will be one of the key determinants of whether the team had a successful draft.”

“Gates, who worked with the 6-foot-2, 181-pound Thornton for a 10-week stretch that began in early January, is optimistic.”

"When we started pre-testing, I was like, 'Man, we've got something here,'" he said. "Super smooth. Super explosive. And honestly, for a guy that is that fast, you don't typically see someone who can change directions and catch the ball well. A lot of times you'll see straight-ahead wide receivers who can blow the top off it, but they can't run a route. Tyquan can do all that -- he's got good hands, he's smart, he picks things up quick."

One example of how Thornton picks things up came early in the 10 weeks spent training with Gates.

"His technique wasn't great. Even though he had a track background, we just had to tighten up some things on his start and a few things along the way," Gates said. "It clicked right away."

Moss reincarnation, Let's go! WR1. Day 1 starter. My first play off 2022 ,Mac play-fake, pumps right, then look left, he unloads a deep ball pass to the crossing Tyquan, CAUGHT. He could go all the way, touchdown Patriots, welcome Tyquan to the NFL.