DRAFT Patriots select WR Tyquan Thornton at 50.

[One-If-By-Sea]

I am just saying that Brady knows quite quickly which receivers are elite, good and flat out bums. He has been right, we have drafted some bums for Brady and even with that he won 3 Super Bowls. The first 3 Super bowls were more about the defense than was Brady.

Brady did not like Jakobi Myers and did not throw to him in his 1st year. Myers has turned out OK - Brady was wrong on that one. I am pro-Brady, but no-one can know how a player will progress, it is always a guess. Every team drafts bums.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady did not like Jakobi Myers and did not throw to him in his 1st year. Myers has turned out OK - Brady was wrong on that one. I am pro-Brady, but no-one can know how a player will progress, it is always a guess. Every team drafts bums.

How was he wrong on a WR that turned out "OK"?

The ideal situation for the Pats is he slides down to the #4 option at WR.

 

[Kasmir]

Hindsight is a funny thing, lots of people were saying he was washed up. The reason I said it that way is that after one practice I remember PFW crew talking about how Brady was smiling. When we did not see Moss in the preseason they kept saying Brady knew what he had in Moss and we should all watch out and it was lights on from the get go!

The Moss trade was still controversial up until the first game of the season. It was *not* clear from training camp and the preseason that Moss was his old self. That generation of this board's trolls were complaining about both trading too much for Welker and that Moss was done.

 

[Kasmir]

Who is Tyquan taking snaps away from to get on the field?

2021 WR snap percentages...

84% Meyers
73% Agholor
52% Bourne
43% Harry

I suppose Harry is a goner, which frees up some opportunities. However, you also have to account for Parker who was at 81% with Miami. He arguably is WR1 heading into the season and will take Harry's snaps plus some of Agholor's. You would think Bourne's snap % is going up, maybe significantly. If Tyquan is even going to see the field much then there will have to be injuries or Agholor has to go (this also assuming Harry goes).

Hopefully it's Meyers whose snaps are down with Bourne getting more slot reps. And if Parker, Thornton, and Agholor are all good they'll split reps and also take some reps from Meyers. And there will be injuries; Parker obviously is particularly likely to miss games.

 

[Wozzy]

How was he wrong on a WR that turned out "OK"?

The ideal situation for the Pats is he slides down to the #4 option at WR.

Because he moaned about veteran weapons and once AB shot his way out of town they wasted a second on Sanu… who was a carbon copy of Meyers. They could have been twin brothers.

Tom could simply have used Meyers and saved them a draft pick, not only that but to get Sanu more reps he eviscerated Jakobi in the Cleveland game for failing to run the next progression in a route. Up to that point Meyers had caught 90% of his targets or some stupid good number. A game later Sanu made the same exact mistake Meyers did, AB did it against Miami… Tom just didn’t want rookies.

And once Sanu got hurt, they desperately needed Meyers and his confidence was shot, he was questioning everything and playing half speed. Wouldn’t have mattered, Tom was hurt, they weren’t good enough… but we’d have had a 2nd in 2020.

The Bradystans pretend he walks on water and never errs… he was wrong on Meyers.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

How was he wrong on a WR that turned out "OK"?

The ideal situation for the Pats is he slides down to the #4 option at WR.

OK. Thanks.

 

[patsfan13]

How was he wrong on a WR that turned out "OK"?

The ideal situation for the Pats is he slides down to the #4 option at WR.

Because Meyers is the sort of player Brady would have enbraced and helped his first 10-15 years.

 

[venecol]

Because he moaned about veteran weapons and once AB shot his way out of town they wasted a second on Sanu… who was a carbon copy of Meyers. They could have been twin brothers.

Tom could simply have used Meyers and saved them a draft pick, not only that but to get Sanu more reps he eviscerated Jakobi in the Cleveland game for failing to run the next progression in a route. Up to that point Meyers had caught 90% of his targets or some stupid good number. A game later Sanu made the same exact mistake Meyers did, AB did it against Miami… Tom just didn’t want rookies.

And once Sanu got hurt, they desperately needed Meyers and his confidence was shot, he was questioning everything and playing half speed. Wouldn’t have mattered, Tom was hurt, they weren’t good enough… but we’d have had a 2nd in 2020.

The Bradystans pretend he walks on water and never errs… he was wrong on Meyers.

Meyers is Ok, but he has 2 TDs in 3 seasons. Come on man.

 

[DaBruinz]

It's almost as though others have taken over draft decisions the past two years
(RK gives a wink)

Were 38 years of NFL experience insufficient when "the guy" grabbed No Separation Harry and SloJuan at the top of his 2019 draft?
----------------------
To change the subject slightly....
You'd think "the guy who's been coaching in the NFL for 40 years" could force the Bills to punt just once

That being said...
I do want to get it on record that I am more optimistic in year 41
I believe BB and sons will force Buffalo to punt at least once in each game this coming season

Coaches call the plays. The players are the ones who execute or fail to execute the plays. Is it Belichick's fault that Judon was hurt in the play-off game but was still the Pats BEST option at DE? Is it Belichick's fault that Winovich never learned how to set the edge in 3 seasons of PRO Coaching? Is it Belichick's fault people on this board have no clue as to what a good player is and what a bad one is?? The Pats were already without Jon Jones in the Play-off game. They then lost MILLS. Hightower lost 2 steps by the end of the season. Van Noy was back to the free-lancing ways that had Belichick let him walk previously. And Collins? What waste of a player. All talent, no heart. He made a whopping 2 plays and did NOTHING the rest of the year. Belichick can't control that He should have known it would happen, but he can't control it.

I don't know what all went on with the CBs, but the fact that Myles Bryant was the "best" option after Jon Jones just shows how important that Jones is and how the depth for slot corner was lacking yet again. I believe that the addition of Marcus Jones will be good this year in terms of having a 2nd slot corner and I'm hoping he can step up and be the primary slot corner going forward. Jack Jones will have 2-3 years (probably) to show what he can do. At 5'11 2/8 he's falls into the realm of where the good CBs are in terms of height. He's got decent shuttle and good 3 cone. The question comes in terms of his game speed. His 10 yard split is very good, but his overall isn't. Does he have enough to play the Outside?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Because he moaned about veteran weapons and once AB shot his way out of town they wasted a second on Sanu… who was a carbon copy of Meyers. They could have been twin brothers.

This is the kind of mental gymnastics that only die hard BB sophist defenders do on a daily basis to justify his failings as a GM. Nobody forced BB to trade for Sanu, who was damaged goods.

In fact if BB was going to trade for a WR that year, Golden Tate would have been a much better choice for 1 year. And this also ignores the fact that BB didn't even need to go out and get another WR if he hadn't gotten rid of Demaryius Thomas for nothing at the end of training camp that year.

Not to mention his all-time FAIL selection of N'Keal Harry in the 1st round of 2019 CREATED the shortages at WR in the first place.



BB FAILED the organization with bad drafting and bad roster management at WR. It wasn't Brady's fault that he was given no weapons to work with. In fact BB's refusal to keep on Danny Amendola the year before helped create the bad WR situation in 2019.

Yet somehow BB comes out without a single iota of blame because he walks on water and never makes mistakes, right? And get off it about Meyers. He's a decent slot WR but not some GENIUS talent who was held back by Brady. LMAO. Are you going to blame Harry's failures on Brady too? If so you're also going to need to blame Cam Newton and Mac Jones for 'holding him back'. *rolls eyes*

 

[VJCPatriot]

Meyers is Ok, but he has 2 TDs in 3 seasons. Come on man.

It's called blame shifting. To make BB look perfect, they need to blame his GM mistakes on Quarterbacks who are no longer with the team.

Fact is the Patriots have drafted 2 good receivers in 20 years - Deion Branch and Julian Edelman. Eventually the blame needs to go back to the decision makers. If Tyquan Thornton makes it, it will almost be against near miraculous odds considering BB's track record in the draft for receivers.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Either those teams were interested in Thornton OR they created a false smoke screen and the Patriots jumped ahead of those other teams and took the wrong WR. Only time will tell. A gambler might say that we're finally 'DUE' for a good WR in New England, but the we're 'DUE' idea is also a gambler's fallacy. Hopefully the Thornton pick was based on extensive scouting reports instead of the dreaded 'good interview'.

 

[DaBruinz]

It's called blame shifting. To make BB look perfect, they need to blame his GM mistakes on Quarterbacks who are no longer with the team.

Fact is the Patriots have drafted 2 good receivers in 20 years - Deion Branch and Julian Edelman. Eventually the blame needs to go back to the decision makers. If Tyquan Thornton makes it, it will almost be against near miraculous odds considering BB's track record in the draft for receivers.

So, David Givens wasn't a good receiver?

Yes, Belichick hasn't been 100% on drafting WRs. But lets stop pretending like he's spent oodles and oodles of high draft capital on them.

Bethel Johnson (2), Chad Jackson (2), Taylor Price (3), Brandon Tate (3), Aaron Dobson (2), N'Keal Harry (1).

So, in 22 years, he used a total of 7 "High end" picks on WRs. one - 1st, four -2nds, two -3rds. No. 1 in 7 isn't good. Pats have spent 10 picks on WR in rounds 4-7. That doesn't include Matthew Slater. They hit on Givens and Edelman. One could even say they hit on Berrios and that the Pats chose to keep the wrong return guy on the main roster. One could also argue that Mitchell was a hit considering the Pats knew that anything beyond one season was going to be iffy considering his knees. 3 of 17 stinks. 5 of 17 is ok, but not great. (17.6%-29.4%).

I bet if you look around the league, no one spends as few "Top end" picks on WR as the Patriots.

The difference in Thornton is that he doesn't just run go routes. Looking at his tape, he ran Gos, Slants, Corners, Posts, and Digs. I saw nothing that would lead me to believe that he couldn't run Outs, Curls, Flats and comebacks. The only issue with those routes is that they don't play to his strengths, which is to keep running. And that is a big difference between him and Bethel Johnson.

Note that I'm counting Tre Nixon as a fail even though he's only going into his 2nd year.


Ignoring the change from Cowher to Tomlinson, here is what the Steelers used in that same time:
Burress (1), Randel-El (2)*, Homes (1), Reid (3), Sweed (2), Wallace (3), Sanders (3), Wheaton (3), Coates (3), Schuster (2), Washington (2), Johnson (3), Claypool (2) - 7 of 13. But they used two - 1sts, four - 2nds, six - thirds. Yes, they did better using twice the number of picks. They did excellent. I didn't count Randel-El because he played so much QB for them.

Steelers had another 10 picks in later rounds. They hit on Antonio Brown.

8 of 23 anyone? (34.8%)

This idea that Tyquan making it would "be against near miraculous odd" is about as accurate as a $3 bill. He's got as much chance as any 2nd round WR.

 

[JMC00]

Nobody forced BB to trade for Sanu, who was damaged goods.

Brady's pouting did. And Sanu wasn't damaged goods, he caught 10 passes in his 2nd game. Then he got an ankle sprain that effected him the rest of the season.

 

[JMC00]

OR they created a false smoke screen and the Patriots jumped ahead of those other teams

So some teams knew that Pats had Thornton on their board and colluded and put it out there to make the Pats trade up to get a guy they wanted?

Just go be a Bucs fan...

 

[JMC00]

Not to mention his all-time FAIL selection of N'Keal Harry in the 1st round of 2019 CREATED the shortages at WR in the first place.

It's funny when people use draftnik rankings to kill draft picks when they haven't played 1 snap but when a player ends up not working out those draftnik rankings are ignored

But yes let's act like Harry wasn't pretty much unanimously considered a top 4 WR in the draft by draftniks

 

[Sicilian]

If everyone is healthy and plays to their talent level, Meyers is the odd man out. But there's a very good chance that not everyone is healthy all year, and an equally good chance that Thornton's role will be limited or specialized in the early part of the season (possibly the whole year). I really doubt they want him out there for a large chunk of snaps until he's had a chance to get in an NFL weight room for a while. With Agholor and Meyers coming off the books next year, 2023 will be where his role increases (assuming he's a hit).

 

[venecol]

Coaches call the plays. The players are the ones who execute or fail to execute the plays. Is it Belichick's fault that Judon was hurt in the play-off game but was still the Pats BEST option at DE?

Yes, it's his fault since he buys the groceries & should've had better depth at edge. Why didn't he play Uche more?

Is it Belichick's fault that Winovich never learned how to set the edge in 3 seasons of PRO Coaching?

Yes, Belichick buys the groceries AND handles all aspects of coaching. Who else is to blame? He picked him & then failed to properly coach him.

Is it Belichick's fault people on this board have no clue as to what a good player is and what a bad one is??

Lol, is Winovich a good player? Harry? Who drafted these guys? Who coached them?

The Pats were already without Jon Jones in the Play-off game. They then lost MILLS. Hightower lost 2 steps by the end of the season. Van Noy was back to the free-lancing ways that had Belichick let him walk previously. And Collins? What waste of a player. All talent, no heart. He made a whopping 2 plays and did NOTHING the rest of the year. Belichick can't control that He should have known it would happen, but he can't control it.

Mills wouldn't have helped in a playoff game where they lost by 30 points. Mills gave up a 134 passer rating in the previous game against BUF. Belichick brought back Hightower, Van Noy & traded Gilly for a bag of balls to bring back Collins. He could control all of these things.

I don't know what all went on with the CBs, but the fact that Myles Bryant was the "best" option after Jon Jones just shows how important that Jones is and how the depth for slot corner was lacking yet again. I believe that the addition of Marcus Jones will be good this year in terms of having a 2nd slot corner and I'm hoping he can step up and be the primary slot corner going forward. Jack Jones will have 2-3 years (probably) to show what he can do. At 5'11 2/8 he's falls into the realm of where the good CBs are in terms of height. He's got decent shuttle and good 3 cone. The question comes in terms of his game speed. His 10 yard split is very good, but his overall isn't. Does he have enough to play the Outside?

Belichick builds the teams depth chart and is responsible for coaching his players up. He buys the groceries & is the cook. If it's not his fault, who's is it? Kraft? Come on man, enough with the excuses.

 

[borg]

Because Meyers is the sort of player Brady would have enbraced and helped his first 10-15 years.

PatsFans....help me out

Who's the NE WR who caught passes from Brady about a decade or so ago, and upon completion, fell to the ground immediately, even when uncovered?
"Catch and Fall" most every time
It was uncanny
The guy in question got open, had good hands, but didn't have the fortitude to turn up the field and fight for extra yards.
Dependable but not dynamic
And he did not last in NE

Meyers is a bit different.
He tries to turn up field.
Unfortunately, his glacial acceleration and inability to shed contact make him no different than the "Catch and Fall" guy.

Lack of YAC is a quality NE has never had much patience with.
Their high-volume targets have traditionally earned a large % of their yardage after the catch

The notion Brady "would have embraced" a guy like Meyers who is incapable of delivering YAC is a big stretch.
--------------------
Mystery WR....Lafell? Caldwell? someone else?
drawing a blank

 

[pazrul72]

PatsFans....help me out

Who's the NE WR who caught passes from Brady about a decade or so ago, and upon completion, fell to the ground immediately, even when uncovered?
"Catch and Fall" most every time
It was uncanny
The guy in question got open, had good hands, but didn't have the fortitude to turn up the field and fight for extra yards.
Dependable but not dynamic
And he did not last in NE

Meyers is a bit different.
He tries to turn up field.
Unfortunately, his glacial acceleration and inability to shed contact make him no different than the "Catch and Fall" guy.

Lack of YAC is a quality NE has never had much patience with.
Their high-volume targets have traditionally earned a large % of their yardage after the catch

The notion Brady "would have embraced" a guy like Meyers who is incapable of delivering YAC is a big stretch.
--------------------
Mystery WR....Lafell? Caldwell? someone else?
drawing a blank

Brandon Lloyd 2012. Still the #1 offense that year so he was doing something right.