PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Patriots/Packers joint practice 8/17/23

[tuckeverlasting]

woah frankie avalon and dobie gillis in the same movie ...don't recall that and i thought i saw all those beach blanket bingo movies

 

[n1997y]

Anyone ever have Orange Sunshine?

Yeah but I liked the White Lightening better.

 

[PWRxWLF]

Sorry HR if you took my comment as being personally directed AT you. Upon reflexion my comment was more the result of the general negativity that I was feeling from the thread than your comment specifically The only thing you stated that could have been construed negative was that you were worried about the OL, a very necessary aspect of that good running game we all hope we have..

I can understand why most are severely worried. Personally I'm not nearly as worried (at this moment in time) because I might be more patient than many. Things CAN improve as we saw from today's practise. I'm guess the OL played better today and they are STILL missing 2 starters. So maybe the depth isn't as bad as we thought as well.

At any rate it was still only ONE practise. Lets see how the game looks and what happens next week. Can they string these good practises together. Building a football team is a constantly evolving process, even at a HS level, and a much more difficult and complex level in the pros. The best coaching jobs are when you can see small incremental improvements over the course of a long season. When we were at our best December and January were our two best months. The last 3 years they haven't.

I appreciate the clarification PFK. I wasn’t taking the entire post directed at me, it was just the last line that I thought you were directing at me. My bad.

 

[patfanken]

1. Possibly; definitely not a PO team.

Too early to concede that. It's not like the NFCN is a juggernaut of a division. The VIkes and Lion are the off season favorites, but things can change. Some teams fade and others grow. You can't tell that now.

2. Absolutely; but anything would've been better than the Double-Doink the Clowns Effect from last year.

Agreed, but BOB would be a coup for any team. His offenses have been good with the Pats, Penn State Texans, and Alabama. And as I have mentioned, I believe "the clowns" were given their jobs BECAUSE Bill wanted to wait for BOB to be free. I never expected them to be great, but I didn't expect the clown show we got. Bill got that one WRONG

3. Let's hope so, because the Mac from his first two years simply isn't good enough to take us where we want to go.

Did you miss the 2021 Season?? Mac had one of the best rookie seasons for a QB this century. And better than, by far, than any of the 4 QB's drafted ahead of him/ He was everything we hoped he would be. Now last year's performance puts that good rookie year into question for sure, but your comment is overly negative.

4. Zeke will help of course, but not having an Alpha in the WR room's gonna hurt, as will Gesicki's absence if it extends into the season.

Agreed on Zeke, but I believe EVERYONE is wrong about this whole, "you GOTTA have a #1 WR" to succeed. I believe this is a more talented WR room than the one we had in 2014-19.

2014 - Edelman - Dobson, Amendola, LaFell Tomkins

2015- Edelman Dobson Amendola LaFell, Boyce

2016- Edelman Hogan, Amendola, Mitchell,

2017- Hogan Cooks, Amendola Dorsett

2018 Edelman, Hogan, Cooks, Amendola Dorsett

Now those are the main WR's from what was just about the BEST 5 years stretch in NFL history - (1 AFCCG - 4 Superbowls, and 3 titles)

Granted the GOAT was the QB, but do you SEE any true #1 WR's on that list. NO you don't, not even close. That's what I don't get about the fascination with WR's. There are so MANY good prospects coming out each year that they are the most numerous commodity in the league. You can even find one in the 6th round that can be valuable (DD).

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have a true #1, but you don't NEED one to be successful.

 

[Joker]

Yeah but I liked the White Lightening better.

then you never had the REAL Orange Sunshine....it was the LAST of Owsley's iterations...small crumbly orange barrel put you in the presence of the Krishna vibration...

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Too early to concede that. It's not like the NFCN is a juggernaut of a division. The VIkes and Lion are the off season favorites, but things can change. Some teams fade and others grow. You can't tell that now.

Agreed, but BOB would be a coup for any team. His offenses have been good with the Pats, Penn State Texans, and Alabama. And as I have mentioned, I believe "the clowns" were given their jobs BECAUSE Bill wanted to wait for BOB to be free. I never expected them to be great, but I didn't expect the clown show we got. Bill got that one WRONG

Did you miss the 2021 Season?? Mac had one of the best rookie seasons for a QB this century. And better than, by far, than any of the 4 QB's drafted ahead of him/ He was everything we hoped he would be. Now last year's performance puts that good rookie year into question for sure, but your comment is overly negative.

Agreed on Zeke, but I believe EVERYONE is wrong about this whole, "you GOTTA have a #1 WR" to succeed. I believe this is a more talented WR room than the one we had in 2014-19.

2014 - Edelman - Dobson, Amendola, LaFell Tomkins

2015- Edelman Dobson Amendola LaFell, Boyce

2016- Edelman Hogan, Amendola, Mitchell,

2017- Hogan Cooks, Amendola Dorsett

2018 Edelman, Hogan, Cooks, Amendola Dorsett

Now those are the main WR's from what was just about the BEST 5 years stretch in NFL history - (1 AFCCG - 4 Superbowls, and 3 titles)

Granted the GOAT was the QB, but do you SEE any true #1 WR's on that list. NO you don't, not even close. That's what I don't get about the fascination with WR's. There are so MANY good prospects coming out each year that they are the most numerous commodity in the league. You can even find one in the 6th round that can be valuable (DD).

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have a true #1, but you don't NEED one to be successful.

In the AFC for now I disagree. With the weapons Miami, Cincy, Buffalo, KC, the (barf) Jets, etc have you're going to have to win in a shootout sooner or later and you're gonna want that number 1 guy like Gronk or even Edelman. I still think we can do it but I am not sure we can rip off 3 wins in a row in the postseason without making it hard on the defense and forcing every team to score less than 30

 

[Patsfan1958]

Anyone ever have Orange Sunshine?

 

[Kasmir]

Too early to concede that. It's not like the NFCN is a juggernaut of a division. The VIkes and Lion are the off season favorites, but things can change. Some teams fade and others grow. You can't tell that now.

Agreed, but BOB would be a coup for any team. His offenses have been good with the Pats, Penn State Texans, and Alabama. And as I have mentioned, I believe "the clowns" were given their jobs BECAUSE Bill wanted to wait for BOB to be free. I never expected them to be great, but I didn't expect the clown show we got. Bill got that one WRONG

Did you miss the 2021 Season?? Mac had one of the best rookie seasons for a QB this century. And better than, by far, than any of the 4 QB's drafted ahead of him/ He was everything we hoped he would be. Now last year's performance puts that good rookie year into question for sure, but your comment is overly negative.

Agreed on Zeke, but I believe EVERYONE is wrong about this whole, "you GOTTA have a #1 WR" to succeed. I believe this is a more talented WR room than the one we had in 2014-19.

2014 - Edelman - Dobson, Amendola, LaFell Tomkins

2015- Edelman Dobson Amendola LaFell, Boyce

2016- Edelman Hogan, Amendola, Mitchell,

2017- Hogan Cooks, Amendola Dorsett

2018 Edelman, Hogan, Cooks, Amendola Dorsett

Now those are the main WR's from what was just about the BEST 5 years stretch in NFL history - (1 AFCCG - 4 Superbowls, and 3 titles)

Granted the GOAT was the QB, but do you SEE any true #1 WR's on that list. NO you don't, not even close. That's what I don't get about the fascination with WR's. There are so MANY good prospects coming out each year that they are the most numerous commodity in the league. You can even find one in the 6th round that can be valuable (DD).

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have a true #1, but you don't NEED one to be successful.

Parker has averaged a consistent 50 yards/game in his career; his issue has been staying healthy. That's 850 yards if he plays all 17 games.

His 40.4% DVOA last year would have led the league if he had been targeted 3 more times.

He may not be a true #1, but if he stays healthy he's pretty close.

 

[Patsfan1958]

PHOTOS: Patriots-Packers Joint Practices

 

[Toofy]

1. Possibly; definitely not a PO team.

2. Absolutely; but anything would've been better than the Double-Doink the Clowns Effect from last year.

3. Let's hope so, because the Mac from his first two years simply isn't good enough to take us where we want to go.

4. Zeke will help of course, but not having an Alpha in the WR room's gonna hurt, as will Gesicki's absence if it extends into the season.

Are we underestimating parker's performances. I thought he was actually super impactful towards end of season and this pre season he is literally on fire . If this form translates to regular season Parker could be the first pats wide receiver in the last 5 years to cross 1000 yards per season. And that is definitely an alpha receiver stat .

I think we are also underestimating the value that a slot receiver and a wildcat option in Cunningham can bring to this offense . We don't need Justin Jefferson. If the sun of parts gel well, we should be more than a handful and coaching might play a big part.

So as @Zuma suggested , I think the chemistry that Mac is building with Henry, Parker and Bourne will be vital.

 

[n1997y]

then you never had the REAL Orange Sunshine....it was the LAST of Owsley's iterations...small crumbly orange barrel put you in the presence of the Krishna vibration...

yeah I had those orange barrels. I think the lightening was also Bear‘s work. I’m sure it benefitted from the setting, just a few hundred of us in a tiny college field house in remote rural Pennsylvania with Jerry and the band playing all night, seven or eight hours of pure aural bliss providing the soundtrack for the movie inside my skull…. So it’s not a fair comparison…

 

[captain stone]

then you never had the REAL Orange Sunshine....it was the LAST of Owsley's iterations...small crumbly orange barrel put you in the presence of the Krishna vibration...

A handful of us saw Krokus & former Thin Lizzy guitarist Gary Moore open for Def Leppard at the Savannah (GA) Civic Center during their Pyromania tour while we were partaking of the stuff... A couple of friends from Dorchester told me they also saw them at the late, lamented Cape Cod Coliseum during the same tour...

 

[patfanken]

In the AFC for now I disagree. With the weapons Miami, Cincy, Buffalo, KC, the (barf) Jets, etc have you're going to have to win in a shootout sooner or later and you're gonna want that number 1 guy like Gronk or even Edelman. I still think we can do it but I am not sure we can rip off 3 wins in a row in the postseason without making it hard on the defense and forcing every team to score less than 30

Well you are probably right. The schedule is horrid. The conference is STACKED. But I never thought that THIS year was going to be the year we are a championship contender. My expectations are these. We are in every ball game despite the schedule. We see significant improvement on offense and Mac. And the team is at their best at the end of the season. Being in the playoffs would be a happy reward for a good season, but its not necessary for it to be a successful year for me.

NEXT year, with another year of development of Mac and the last 2 draft classes, PLUS the added talent drawn from the draft AND the additions of at least 2 first day FA's. THEN my expectations will be MUCH higher, even though the division and conference will be just as hard.

 

[DaBruinz]

Malik went Undrafted so that's the silver lining for me of him making it through waivers and on to our Taxi Squad.

Don't be sure about that. Teams are always looking for those sorts of gems that they can steal from another team. Especially the Pats.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them start off with just 3 RBs and fewer LBs/DL. I think that Perkins and Jennings are on the outside looking in. Wouldn't be surprised to see Wilson cut and brought back the next day type thing as the Pats finagle the roster.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have a feeling we will go with 2 tight ends and try to get both sokol and firsker on practice squad . Same goes for Carl Davis as well. Myles Bryant vs bolden is where I donno what they do. Similarly we might just do 3 RBs and move 2 to practice squad .

I wouldn't be surprised to see BB trade Bryant for a late round pick. Teams are always looking for Journeymen DBs who can play on STs as well. Seattle always seems to be looking at our DBs..

 

[Kasmir]

Don't be sure about that. Teams are always looking for those sorts of gems that they can steal from another team. Especially the Pats.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them start off with just 3 RBs and fewer LBs/DL. I think that Perkins and Jennings are on the outside looking in. Wouldn't be surprised to see Wilson cut and brought back the next day type thing as the Pats finagle the roster.

Drafting is obviously a less than accurate endeavor. Despite the huge effort involved, team make tons of mistakes both ways, i.e. both overestimating and underestimating projected NFL success.

Fans seem to overvalue draft position as an indicator of likely success, probably because of the wealth of public info they absorb leading up to the draft.

But fans have next to no information about how draftees on other teams are actually doing in the preseason. Usually they instead advocate picking up their pre-draft "binkies" sometimes for years after they were drafted -- Andy Isabella for example.

Teams know better, so they invest lots of scouting effort into building dossiers on new players based on how they actually perform starting in the preseason.

Observing the success of a Brock Purdy, and before him Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, Tony Romo and of course Tom Brady, how can anyone compare the value of a pre-draft scouting report on a Malik Cunningham to actual experience with him in the NFL?

Of course teams are watching how Malik and everyone else actually performs. They rapidly care less and less about their draft status because they now are starting to get NFL tape.

No way Malik gets to or thru waivers if his preseason experience with the Patriots indicates he should never have been a free agent.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Granted the GOAT was the QB

That’s a huge deal though. None of those WR group would have been successful with a middle of the road QB like we have now with Mac.

In my opinion, you need elite weapons somewhere on offense if your QB can’t elevate people around him. Even if your QB is elite, I still think you need at least one.

If you take SF they are successful with a middle of the road QB because they have elite talent at WR, TE and RB.

but do you SEE any true #1 WR's on that list. NO you don't, not even close.

Fail to mention that we had Gronk during that time the best TE to ever play the game which mean we had a #1 elite target. It can be WR or TE doesn’t matter. You need at least 1.

I think what we have will be enough if the goal is to make the playoff as a WC. If your goal is to win SBs then it’s not.

 

[Joker]

yeah I had those orange barrels. I think the lightening was also Bear‘s work. I’m sure it benefitted from the setting, just a few hundred of us in a tiny college field house in remote rural Pennsylvania with Jerry and the band playing all night, seven or eight hours of pure aural bliss providing the soundtrack for the movie inside my skull…. So it’s not a fair comparison…

I was involved with the Hog Farm back in 68...following the Dead I ran with a whole bunch of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love group centered around S.F. They were the official dealers of ALL of Owsley's output. Purple Haze, Blue Flats, Black Flats, Yellow Sunshine ,Strawberry Fields,the amazing color waterfall Chocolate Chip, Monterrey Purple...on and on...Owsley hung with the Dead and went up and down the coast doing "acid tests" back then in 67 and 68. I was in Boston at B.U. back then and went to the west coast during the summer to play hippie. Right after the real orange sunshine dropped in 69, Owsley disappeared, supposedly to the midwest. The Brotherhood kept producing new forms of 25, the first of which was the famous Windowpane that came in little wood caskets of 1000 doses. They then began the blotter era introducing the Frog blotter acid and then just blue and red liquids that any hippie could drop on sheets of paper using a med dropper. This was all designed to fool law enforcement who were at the time woefully ignorant of the real scope of Brotherhood operations.
I left the whole scene behind in the early 70's, moved to New Mexico, then El Paso and finally ended up in South Florida. At that point the entire hip scene morphed into alcohol/cocaine and sedatives. I was connected to High Times magazine in NYC as one of many weed sources for Colombian that flowed through the Keys and Dade county.It was truly the wild wild west reborn...but that's another story for another rainy day.

 

[captain stone]

I was involved with the Hog Farm back in 68...following the Dead I ran with a whole bunch of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love group centered around S.F. They were the official dealers of ALL of Owsley's output. Purple Haze, Blue Flats, Black Flats, Yellow Sunshine ,Strawberry Fields,the amazing color waterfall Chocolate Chip, Monterrey Purple...on and on...Owsley hung with the Dead and went up and down the coast doing "acid tests" back then in 67 and 68. I was in Boston at B.U. back then and went to the west coast during the summer to play hippie. Right after the real orange sunshine dropped in 69, Owsley disappeared, supposedly to the midwest. The Brotherhood kept producing new forms of 25, the first of which was the famous Windowpane that came in little wood caskets of 1000 doses. They then began the blotter era introducing the Frog blotter acid and then just blue and red liquids that any hippie could drop on sheets of paper using a med dropper. This was all designed to fool law enforcement who were at the time woefully ignorant of the real scope of Brotherhood operations.
I left the whole scene behind in the early 70's, moved to New Mexico, then El Paso and finally ended up in South Florida. At that point the entire hip scene morphed into alcohol/cocaine and sedatives. I was connected to High Times magazine in NYC as one of many weed sources for Colombian that flowed through the Keys and Dade county.It was truly the wild wild west reborn...but that's another story for another rainy day.

I love stories like this... Windowpane was my first (& only time having it), then the blotters, including one of Mickey Mouse in his Sorcerer's Apprentice outfit... You could drink all night, but all you felt was the trip... Beautiful...

 

[Patsfan1958]

I was involved with the Hog Farm back in 68...following the Dead I ran with a whole bunch of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love group centered around S.F. They were the official dealers of ALL of Owsley's output. Purple Haze, Blue Flats, Black Flats, Yellow Sunshine ,Strawberry Fields,the amazing color waterfall Chocolate Chip, Monterrey Purple...on and on...Owsley hung with the Dead and went up and down the coast doing "acid tests" back then in 67 and 68. I was in Boston at B.U. back then and went to the west coast during the summer to play hippie. Right after the real orange sunshine dropped in 69, Owsley disappeared, supposedly to the midwest. The Brotherhood kept producing new forms of 25, the first of which was the famous Windowpane that came in little wood caskets of 1000 doses. They then began the blotter era introducing the Frog blotter acid and then just blue and red liquids that any hippie could drop on sheets of paper using a med dropper. This was all designed to fool law enforcement who were at the time woefully ignorant of the real scope of Brotherhood operations.
I left the whole scene behind in the early 70's, moved to New Mexico, then El Paso and finally ended up in South Florida. At that point the entire hip scene morphed into alcohol/cocaine and sedatives. I was connected to High Times magazine in NYC as one of many weed sources for Colombian that flowed through the Keys and Dade county.It was truly the wild wild west reborn...but that's another story for another rainy day.

That is ****ing awesome dude!! Very cool!!