OT: Brandon Marshall to Miami for 2010 2nd and 2011 2nd

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Well, if Brady values McDaniels opinion as much as he says publically, he probably never wanted Marshall on the team in the first place. He might not have wanted Holmes either if he knows people in the Steelers' lockerroom who thought Holmes was a cancer.

I still expect the Pats to sign one or two of the decent free agents currently available at WR or could be available after the draft (Coles, Furrey, Holt, etc.) to bolster the #2 spot and/or depth.

Once again though,we are probably going to be signing a vet that no one thinks is very good anymore,who is unemployed right now or some team dumps him because he cannot crack thier roster....to me thats as big of a gamble as it is with a rookie....Its really been a few years since BB has been able to take old rusty guys off the streets and make them superstars here or at least worthy of a roster spot.

 

[letekro]

this is a good move by the fish they will now pay him 8 or 9 million a year with about 20 million up front he will now stop talking and play football.



i know there are lot's of people on the bord who are kind of pissed that the pats did not make this move. and i can under stand that we see the jets and fish picking up young NFL stars will the pats are waiting on rookies to help this team win.


the only thing i can say is haveing a WR core that makes 30 million. is realy not a good way to build a team IMO. brady, can throw for 70 TD's and the pats still wont win a SB they have to build the defense. then they can get back to winning SB's with brady geting the lead and the defense holding it.

There's a good point in here amid the maddening punctuation.

 

[Rob0729]

Anybody who doesn't think that this is a great deal for the Dolphins is kidding themselves. Henne gave us problems last year and that was with a stable of Bess and Hartline. Add to that Marshall (who shredded us in Denver) and that running game, and they're going to be hard to handle on offense. On defense, I love the punting. People mention the problems they have going into this draft, but those problems aren't any different than last year. Even with Ferguson (who was on his last legs), they needed a NT. Look for them to try to acquire Cody in this year's draft. Even with Porter and Taylor, they still needed one to two OLB's. Those two were pretty clearly on their last legs as well. They acquired Dansby to try to solve the problems at ILB and even with Crowder last year, they needed another ILB. Just because they let Taylor and Porter go doesn't mean their problems haven't changed. It just means that it's forced them to act this year. The Dolphins are a better team now. To deny that is to be in complete denial. I sincerely hope the Patriots have a slam dunk of a draft. We're going to need it.

I still think the Dolphins are significantly worse on defense now than they were last year. Their defense fell apart when Ferguson went out. Taylor and Porter were their two leading sack masters and made up a third of their overall sacks. They have no starting FS right now after letting go of Gabril Wilson (although he was no prize for them). Yes, their needs are the same, but they don't have the stopgap players to fill those needs until they develop someone to take the roles. Cameron Wake MIGHT be able to replace Porter, but Quentin Moses isn't going to replace Taylor (although Taylor may be back). They have no one on the roster to replace Ferguson at the most important position on the defense and this is not a great year for 3-4 NTs in the draft.

The Dolphins may be better, but they lost a good amount of defense this offseason when you count suspensions as well as the losses of players. I wouldn't bet on them being significantly better. They could be, but on the face of it they don't have much of a defense.

 

[condon84]

Denver salvaged what it could for a player who was never comfortable in Denver and who has issues that could lead to suspension. Miami got one of the best wide receivers in the game. The Chicken Littles got to scream about the sky falling and one move for a wideout magically overcoming all that team's other deficiencies and allowing it to leapfrog the Patriots. MoLewisrocks absolutely clowned himself, yet again, this time about the death of a human being.



Interesting thread all around.

I don't know what's worse, the chicken littles going overboard, or the posters with their head in the sand in complete denial.

 

[Rob0729]

Once again though,we are probably going to be signing a vet that no one thinks is very good anymore,who is unemployed right now or some team dumps him because he cannot crack thier roster....to me thats as big of a gamble as it is with a rookie....Its really been a few years since BB has been able to take old rusty guys off the streets and make them superstars here or at least worthy of a roster spot.

Just because no one thinks a veteran is going to be any good anymore doesn't mean he won't. Most people thought Moss was done when the Pats acquired him. David Patten was a jorneyman when they acquired him. People thought Wes Welker was going to be a good pick up, but no one imagined how good he would be in the Pats' system.

I look at a guy like Coles and wonder was his lack of production last year because of him or the fact that Palmer and the offense in general sucked in Cincy. Looking at Chad Ochocinco, he had his worst season since his rookie year other than 2008 when Palmer was out for most of the year and they had crap at QB.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I don't know what's worse, the chicken littles going overboard, or the posters with their head in the sand in complete denial.

If by saying someone is a Chicken Little by assuming this team is probably not going to win a SB with the roster not being significatly upgraded other than adding a few rookies and some discarded JAGS in a month or two then pencil me is as one...I prefer to look at the broader picture and see the team looking to build for the near future and may have to digress before progress.

The homers see this team as still being an Elite one....it is not and yes,they do have thier head in the sand

Of course this all does not mean we have to forget to watch the Pats this season just because it does not look good right now
...it should be fun to see what the future holds for the new talent we get without having the whole world of high expectations on our shoulders.

 

[Kontradiction]

I still think the Dolphins are significantly worse on defense now than they were last year. Their defense fell apart when Ferguson went out. Taylor and Porter were their two leading sack masters and made up a third of their overall sacks. They have no starting FS right now after letting go of Gabril Wilson (although he was no prize for them). Yes, their needs are the same, but they don't have the stopgap players to fill those needs until they develop someone to take the roles. Cameron Wake MIGHT be able to replace Porter, but Quentin Moses isn't going to replace Taylor (although Taylor may be back). They have no one on the roster to replace Ferguson at the most important position on the defense and this is not a great year for 3-4 NTs in the draft.

The Dolphins may be better, but they lost a good amount of defense this offseason when you count suspensions as well as the losses of players. I wouldn't bet on them being significantly better. They could be, but on the face of it they don't have much of a defense.

Their defense was never really "together" when Ferguson was in there. If you remember, they actually played better the second game against us when McDaniel was in there. If you had watched any of the games last year, you should know that Porter was not 2008 Porter and both he and Taylor (who somehow managed to keep Wake out of the line-up despite the fact that Wake was an absolute sack machine when in) very much appeared to be on their last legs. Wake is better than either Taylor or Porter of last year at getting to the quarterback. As you said, Wilson was no prize. Having Casper the Friendly Ghost play FS might be a better option than Wilson. Their needs haven't changed. As for NT, like I said watch them attempt to make a play for Mt. Cody in the draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

For those who've been pointing to future salary cap issues as an excuse for Patriot inaction (and ignoring things like the big QB contracts), here's something for you:

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports Marshall will get $50 million over the next five years as part of a four-year, $47 million extension tacked on to his scheduled $2.5 million salary in 2010.

The deal includes $24 million in guaranteed money, and close to $29 million in the first three years of the contract. It's not backloaded, although we're looking forward to seeing more details to learn if there are any natural outs for Miami if things don't go well.

Marshall gets $24 million guaranteed | ProFootballTalk.com


That's a lot of cabbage.

 

[The Dynasty]

First, I said the Holmes move was a good move. Second, I said both Holmes and Moss had risks because of their pasts, but both teams had low investments in them. In fact, I really didn't say anything bad about the Holmes deal other than he will miss the first four games (a fact) and that he is one step away from a year long suspension. Personally, I hated the Moss trade at the time it happened. I was proven wrong.

As for saying anyone is one step away from a serious suspension is BS. Marshall is because he was suspended already by the league. He already has one (almost two strikes against him). Marshall also as a long documented list of arrests for violences and domestic abuse from assaulting a police officer to beating up his girlfriend. Are you really going to say Brady and Marshall are the same when it comes towards the likelihood of suspension.

You don't see how the Marshall move has risk to it? Really?!? The Google the guy and look at all the problems this guy has had and tell me there is no risk to signing a guy like that long term.

As for the Dolphins, yes the WR position was a big need. Yes, IF Marshall can keep his nose clean, it was a great move for them. If not, then there is problems.


I may be a homer, but you are an idiot. I can live with that. Can you?

On the Holmes deal Monday night you were saying what a risky move it was and how all of the Jets signings this off season arent as good as what people have been making them out to be... bla bla bla. The Jets got Holmes for a 5th round pick, so what if hes missing 1/4 of the season. The Jets are getting a proven WR, Super Bowl MVP for a 5th round pick. Even if he doesnt work out do you really think they will be kicking themselves for giving up a 5th round pick? It was a great deal for the Jets with little to no risk involved.

Brady and Marshall isnt a good example. Use Donte Stallworth as an example, he didnt have any problems with police or anything like that until what happened last year. When Parcells made the trade for Marshall I really dont think he was thinking "Wow, this guy is really close to a serious suspension", he saw his numbers on the field and those speak for themselves. Marshall isnt at any more of a risk for a serious suspension than any other guy in the NFL that makes a poor choice on a given day. You would think that Marshall would actually change his act being on a new team and a new city with new surroundings.

Look at Marshalls numbers, he is definitely a top 5 WR in the NFL. The Dolphins gave up two 2nd round picks for him. The reward definitely out weighs the risk. You know what this guy can do on the field, he is definitely worth more than two 2nd round picks, you're an idiot if you dont believe that. You are saying that this signing is risky because he has had some off the field problems. Not a guarantee that he will have problems off the field, it is pretty much guaranteed he will be successful on the field. 2 second round picks for a top 5 WR, probably one of the biggest steals this off season.

I am an idiot? I am being realistic and you cannot except the fact that right now on paper the Jets and the Dolphins are better than the Patriots. Now this doesnt mean anything as it is only April 14th and there are still plenty of moves/players to be added, but failure to recognize that the Patriots may be in trouble this season with the Jets and the Dolphins being better than the Patriots right now makes you the idiot.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Just because no one thinks a veteran is going to be any good anymore doesn't mean he won't. Most people thought Moss was done when the Pats acquired him. David Patten was a jorneyman when they acquired him. People thought Wes Welker was going to be a good pick up, but no one imagined how good he would be in the Pats' system.

I look at a guy like Coles and wonder was his lack of production last year because of him or the fact that Palmer and the offense in general sucked in Cincy. Looking at Chad Ochocinco, he had his worst season since his rookie year other than 2008 when Palmer was out for most of the year and they had crap at QB.

This team is not as easy to learn its methods and routes ect: like some other teams...thats why JAGs seldom make a difference lately,they cannot comprehend changes to what they are used to and sometimes cannot sync with a new team like Galloway last season for example.

Not to say every JAG will be a waste,but discarded,unwanted players are as chancy as rookies

 

[Deus Irae]

If by saying someone is a Chicken Little by assuming this team is probably not going to win a SB with the roster not being significatly upgraded other than adding a few rookies and some discarded JAGS in a month or two then pencil me is as one...I prefer to look at the broader picture and see the team looking to build for the near future and may have to digress before progress.

The homers see this team as still being an Elite one....it is not and yes,they do have thier head in the sand

Of course this all does not mean we have to forget to watch the Pats this season just because it does not look good right now
...it should be fun to see what the future holds for the new talent we get without having the whole world of high expectations on our shoulders.

Probably not going to win the Super Bowl without some major improvements is fine, and it's completely rational based upon what we saw last season. Panicking because the Dolphins made one move, pre-draft?

 

[Blizzzard]

I guess there's no need for some of you to watch this year now...

Comments like this annoy the crap out of me.

I hate it when people freak the heck out over stuff prematurely, but I hate it even more when Uber-Homers try to look like they are above it all and ignore big moves like this.

Sure, the jets and Miami took steps back with personell... as have we in recent seasons. But they are doing something about it. Do I believe that we will get some studs in this draft?...yes. Do I believe that there is just as much chance that we whiff on all of them, or that other teams ahead of us snatch our targets?....yes.
The fact is, even if we hit on all of those draft picks, we won't be seeing game/season altering contributions from them in their first years. Yes we can possibly have a better team in 2011 and beyond. I am excited for that, and am greatful that we can/will have a competitive team thats fun to watch for years to come. I would rather have that than a 1 year window like the Jets have. But this doesn't change the fact that many people see the 2010 season potentially slipping away. I hope they're wrong, but they might be correct.

No matter how much you want to deny it, teams in our own division signing and trading for big name players (no matter what your opinion of them) is a pretty big deal.

Denver didn't have a good team last year, but I do remember us losing our game against them mostly because Marshall abused our defense. A defense that is coming back in pretty much the same configuration as last year. He single-handedly snatched that game from us, and now he has at least 2 chances every year to do the same.

I was never one of those people who thought we would trade for him and he would screw his head on and fly right under the watchful eyes of BB and TB. I don't believe in those fairytales. But it does hurt having him traded to one of our closest rivals.

So my opinion...
This hurts, but It doesn't destroy us.

The chicken littles are just as right and just as wrong as the homers saying "meh, no biggie".

Attacking others on this board is just misdirected fear or anger that you have about the pats. So, going after someone who may be very worried about this move and express it openly, seems like a thinly veiled attempt to hide your own frustration.

P.S. 102 PAT This is in no means an attack or directed solely at you. I merely chose your post to quote as an example of what is being said by many

 

[Patriot 37]

I still think the Dolphins are significantly worse on defense now than they were last year. Their defense fell apart when Ferguson went out. Taylor and Porter were their two leading sack masters and made up a third of their overall sacks. They have no starting FS right now after letting go of Gabril Wilson (although he was no prize for them). Yes, their needs are the same, but they don't have the stopgap players to fill those needs until they develop someone to take the roles. Cameron Wake MIGHT be able to replace Porter, but Quentin Moses isn't going to replace Taylor (although Taylor may be back). They have no one on the roster to replace Ferguson at the most important position on the defense and this is not a great year for 3-4 NTs in the draft.

The Dolphins may be better, but they lost a good amount of defense this offseason when you count suspensions as well as the losses of players. I wouldn't bet on them being significantly better. They could be, but on the face of it they don't have much of a defense.

I agree with most of your points, however this year is considered a great DT draft with 5 NTs expected to go in rounds 1-3 (Williams, Cody, Thomas, Joseph and Troupe). The Dolphins will almost definately be able to get the top rated NT, Dan Williams with the 12th pick.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Probably not going to win the Super Bowl without some major improvements is fine, and it's completely rational based upon what we saw last season. Panicking because the Dolphins made one move, pre-draft?

That was overdue in this thread...LOL

My concern is more of the Jets than the Phins,what people are probably concerned with is these little transactions with top talent can make a team who should be 1st or 2nd..possibly 3rd in the division without major upgrading.

 

[Deus Irae]

That was overdue in this thread...LOL

Yeah..... I was surprised someone hadn't already used it.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

At least we can still hold out hope for a draft day trade, for V. Jackson or M. Floyd. I'd be thrilled with either one (preferably Jackson), and there is a good chance SD moves one of them this year knowing they more than likely would not be able to extend both at the end of the year, along with all their other FA's.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

For two players -- LB Karlos Dansby and WR Brandon Marshall -- Dolphins spent $93 million ($46 guaranteed) for 5 years. Jeff Darlington Miami mediot

This is beginning to sound like the good old days when Tuna turned around teams using the owners AMEX card only to abandon them to cap hell under his successor shortly thereafter...

Bet they still won't be able to put fannies in seats...aside from traveling squads. If they start out slow there will be quite the finger pointing show over and above the the one phins fans will engage in.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

At least we can still hold out hope for a draft day trade, for V. Jackson or M. Floyd. I'd be thrilled with either one (preferably Jackson), and there is a good chance SD moves one of them this year knowing they more than likely would not be able to extend both at the end of the year, along with all their other FA's.

Rivals are not going to deal over thier better players to the Pats,especially teams who have gotten burned by the Pats in the past like SD who has been ousted from the playoffs 2 years in a row by the Pats...AJ Smith is not an idiot.

If Jackson goes anywhere it will probably be with a team in the NFC or a team like the Bills who have little shot of doing anything.

Teams are not going to feed the Pats with good players unless the Pats give them the kitchen sink.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Rivals are not going to deal over thier better players to the Pats,especially teams who have gotten burned by the Pats in the past like SD who has been ousted from the playoffs 2 years in a row by the Pats...AJ Smith is not an idiot.

If Jackson goes anywhere it will probably be with a team in the NFC or a team like the Bills who have little shot of doing anything.

Teams are not going to feed the Pats with good players unless the Pats give them the kitchen sink.

I've come to learn to "never say never" when it comes to anything any NFL team does these days.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

This is beginning to sound like the good old days when Tuna turned around teams using the owners AMEX card only to abandon them to cap hell under his successor shortly thereafter...

Bet they still won't be able to put fannies in seats...aside from traveling squads. If they start out slow there will be quite the finger pointing show over and above the the one phins fans will engage in.

well??? who else are the dolphins paying?

marshall's deal is similar in magnitude to moss'

the dolphins Dline don't cost much, neither does their OL,QB,DB......