Official 2022 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[1960Pats]

There are many fundamental flaws in Kraft's & Belichick's individual and collaborative modus operandi, which prevented us from winning 10 Super Bowls and being in fact arguably the greatest modern dynasty, which we aren't by a long shot.

I'm glad we aren't the St. Louis Stallions, or the Hartford Patriots for that matter, and happy we had so much good football to enjoy for two decades.

The correspondent accolades and adulation showered over the two of them are earned but largely blind.

Kraft is an excellent owner. Belichick is an excellent coach.

Now if I sit down and count the number of mind-numbingly terrible and obviously wrong managerial, strategic and aesthetic decisions made by these two by the time I got up my back would be extremely sore.

That they're old is not as relevant as the fact they will never change, grow or learn in several respects.

I personally believe that keeping Belichick as coach is by far best for our competitive chances going forward. Nobody lives forever but Belichick still brings more to the table than any other coach. The tipping point is he's here, if he wants to stay he should, and things turn around very quickly in sports. The Saints were 3-13 in 2005. They were in the NFCCG the very next year, and won the Super Bowl three years later.

If Kraft keeps Bill, and Bill adjusts his miserable recent fatal personnel choices, there's potential the rest of this decade.

I think Belichick's experience, insight and positive traits outweigh his shortcomings.

And...the mediots calling for his departure are total morons. Always a safe bet to do the opposite of whatever they're spewing.

I'm not a member of the media and I spend very little time listening to them.

It amazes me how people credit Bill for the success of this team during the Brady years but totally ignore what's been right in front of us for 4 years running since. If we'd be better off moving forward then why the **** have we been struggling and going downhill since he dumped the GOAT 4 years ago?

One other thing that keeps getting overlooked is the stain of cheating that Bill has left on this team. His arrogance and Bob's capitulation have forever attached the names Cheatriots and Belicheat to the remarkable success of this team.

Nobody knows what the future would bring with another HC. For all we know a new younger guy could come in and be successful as long as he has the players, which is why I watch the games. It's certainly not to watch a pencil pushing dinosaur on the sidelines.

 

[1960Pats]

The Browns moving on from Baker will go down as a disaster. And it was bad to start with considering Watson being a perverted cretin.

Dude had two GREAT seasons with the Browns. And 2 meh seasons. He has a lot of talent and the Browns just went “**** it” and gave up.

I wouldn't want Baker Mayfield anywhere near my team. I must have missed his GREAT seasons.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Nobody knows what the future would bring with another HC. For all we know a new younger guy could come in and be successful as long as he has the players, which is why I watch the games. It's certainly not to watch a pencil pushing dinosaur on the sidelines.

I'm sorry you're so mad about Bill. When Parcells left, I wasn't sorry to see him go, but as time went by I became informed about exactly what happened. Bill has made some WRONG decisions the last few years and the results reflect this. But I believe I understand Belichick as well as I do now Parcells, and I thus appreciate all that he still brings to the table - which is a ton better than what else is out there.

I'm not a member of the media and I spend very little time listening to them.

And you're better off for it.

Check out this I got on Xmas:

She overhears me listening to talk radio.

It amazes me how people credit Bill for the success of this team during the Brady years but totally ignore what's been right in front of us for 4 years running since.

A lot of boo-boos were made when Tom was here, contributing to our winning only six times.

If we'd be better off moving forward then why the **** have we been struggling and going downhill since he dumped the GOAT 4 years ago?

Kraft was complicit.

One other thing that keeps getting overlooked is the stain of cheating that Bill has left on this team. His arrogance and Bob's capitulation have forever attached the names Cheatriots and Belicheat to the remarkable success of this team.

It's a lot more complicated than that. The Patriots have largely not had one legitimate win in the entirety of their membership in the NFL which began in 1970. Local media denigrates them, and media, opponents and their fans just pile on.

Belichick has really been disliked by the media, especially since Cleveland. They don't like his personality, and there are a lot of players (not most) who don't, either.

That Belichick is astronomically more intelligent than the people he's surrounded by has been a big reason for his success, and also a big reason a lot of those people resent him. Bill was certainly not responsible for the tsunami of totally, eternally untrue cheating allegations levelled at his team ever since the Snow Bowl and the game at Pittsburgh a week later. It's complete B.S.


Now, was Bill to alter his approach to his job, basically his brain, to appease the morons in the league and media? I wouldn't, and he didn't. We had some team staffers doing nothing wrong and nothing illegal for the first half of the first game of a season in a location at Giants Stadium which Goodell decided was 'unauthorized', which the Jets did before and were not punished for.

The capitulation by Kraft was to the league, because Bob always takes the high road, and he adopted Goodell like a son after Roger followed Tagliabue's orders serving as the liaison between the team and the government, because the Hartford contract prohibited them from directly negotiating with each other. So Bob thinks Roger is the hero getting CMGI/Gillette built, and he even absolves Goodell saying he was just doing what the owners wanted (maybe he was...but still).

Goodell is a monster, and they were out to get the Patriots regardless. Nobody on the Patriots including Bill did anything to encourage DefameGate, except Tom telling the press "Maybe they [the Ravens] should read the rule book." Pointing out how moronically stupid everybody else is pisses them off. Again, not that I myself would have done anything differently.

 

[VectorPrime]

Bucs are still the Bucs

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Brady beat the Saints when it mattered last year

There's still time for Baker though

 

[1960Pats]

I'm sorry you're so mad about Bill. When Parcells left, I wasn't sorry to see him go, but as time went by I became informed about exactly what happened. Bill has made some WRONG decisions the last few years and the results reflect this. But I believe I understand Belichick as well as I do now Parcells, and I thus appreciate all that he still brings to the table - which is a ton better than what else is out there.

And you're better off for it.

Check out this I got on Xmas:

She overhears me listening to talk radio.

A lot of boo-boos were made when Tom was here, contributing to our winning only six times.

Kraft was complicit.

It's a lot more complicated than that. The Patriots have largely not had one legitimate win in the entirety of their membership in the NFL which began in 1970. Local media denigrates them, and media, opponents and their fans just pile on.

Belichick has really been disliked by the media, especially since Cleveland. They don't like his personality, and there are a lot of players (not most) who don't, either.

That Belichick is astronomically more intelligent than the people he's surrounded by has been a big reason for his success, and also a big reason a lot of those people resent him. Bill was certainly not responsible for the tsunami of totally, eternally untrue cheating allegations levelled at his team ever since the Snow Bowl and the game at Pittsburgh a week later. It's complete B.S.


Now, was Bill to alter his approach to his job, basically his brain, to appease the morons in the league and media? I wouldn't, and he didn't. We had some team staffers doing nothing wrong and nothing illegal for the first half of the first game of a season in a location at Giants Stadium which Goodell decided was 'unauthorized', which the Jets did before and were not punished for.

The capitulation by Kraft was to the league, because Bob always takes the high road, and he adopted Goodell like a son after Roger followed Tagliabue's orders serving as the liaison between the team and the government, because the Hartford contract prohibited them from directly negotiating with each other. So Bob thinks Roger is the hero getting CMGI/Gillette built, and he even absolves Goodell saying he was just doing what the owners wanted (maybe he was...but still).

Goodell is a monster, and they were out to get the Patriots regardless. Nobody on the Patriots including Bill did anything to encourage DefameGate, except Tom telling the press "Maybe they [the Ravens] should read the rule book." Pointing out how moronically stupid everybody else is pisses them off. Again, not that I myself would have done anything differently.

Thanks for the respectful response as usual.

My issue with BB starts with the fact that I don't believe that coaches are anywhere near as important as players. And the fact that he let two GOAT players go with nobody to replace them and got nothing in return compounded that.

Throw in the steady downhill slide of this team for the last 4 years and that seals it for me. Bill's obviously past his prime and I think a new HC will be more entertaining and probably more successful. After all, I only want coaches coaching my team that I like.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Thanks for the respectful response as usual.

My issue with BB starts with the fact that I don't believe that coaches are anywhere near as important as players. And the fact that he let two GOAT players go with nobody to replace them and got nothing in return compounded that.

Throw in the steady downhill slide of this team for the last 4 years and that seals it for me. Bill's obviously past his prime and I think a new HC will be more entertaining and probably more successful. After all, I only want coaches coaching my team that I like.

Branch comes to mind. Some moves worked out, and others were the disaster they appeared to be right away. But the big 3 (Kraft, Belichick, Brady) towed the company line, and it worked. For the most part. Largely because Brady made it work.

Today, without Tom, we see basically what we'd have seen if Brady never played. I still don't take for granted Kraft's financial stability, or Belichick's gifted intellect and intuition. The potential is still there, but time's winding down, and Bill's been terrible with personnel the last several years.

 

[1960Pats]

Branch comes to mind. Some moves worked out, and others were the disaster they appeared to be right away. But the big 3 (Kraft, Belichick, Brady) towed the company line, and it worked. For the most part. Largely because Brady made it work.

Today, without Tom, we see basically what we'd have seen if Brady never played. I still don't take for granted Kraft's financial stability, or Belichick's gifted intellect and intuition. The potential is still there, but time's winding down, and Bill's been terrible with personnel the last several years.

From the beginning my wish was for Bill to take over the defense and finish his career here. But that has no chance of happening.

 

[RicoG]

Well, we at the Tom Brady forum could forsee this day coming (Belichick being forced out and the Pats near the bottom of the league) the moment Brady walked out the door. Or more accurately, the year before when BB refused to grant Brady a multiyear contract so that he can retire a Patriot, and Kraft gave BB his stamp of approval.

 

[RicoG]

Or even more accurately still, when BB started missing on drafts left and right starting in 2014. Especially 2nd round cb busts. Then he started making questionable personnel decision(on offense) beyond not wanting to give Brady a multiyear,..ie, wanting to trade Gronk, not replacing a deep threat like Brandon Cook, not extending Amendola and replacing him with noone, etc.

 

[RicoG]

Drafts are important.
If Tampa don't hit a homerun in the draft in 2020, there's a good possibility they don't win the SB.

In 2021, they suffered key injuries and struck out on rookies. If they drafted better, it would have greatly increased their SB chances.

In 2022, they drafted meh,. But they needed a strong draft and they didn't go far.

In 2023, the Bucs hit a homerun on drafts again. If they go far it's because of their rookies, their drafts in 2020, and stars from prior drafts Evans, Godwin, David, etc. They still have a strong team, it's Bowles that is the big question mark.

So Bucs have 2 homerun drafts in 4 years. The Pats have had Zero home run drafts since 2014, 10 years.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

a big difference between Leftwich’s dumbass play calling and Canales. I’m not even saying Canales is some great play caller, but he’s still a lot better than Leftwich

 

[1960Pats]

Well, we at the Tom Brady forum could forsee this day coming (Belichick being forced out and the Pats near the bottom of the league) the moment Brady walked out the door. Or more accurately, the year before when BB refused to grant Brady a multiyear contract so that he can retire a Patriot, and Kraft gave BB his stamp of approval.

When you look at things closely it's clear to see that Tom was the key, not Bill.
Bill had 4 losing seasons in 5 years with the Browns
Bill then goes 5-13 his first 18 games here and Drew goes down.
Brady takes over at 0-2 in 2001 and goes on to win the SB.
With Brady they have a 20 year dynasty and win 6 Lombardis.
After letting Brady walk Bill has 3 losing seasons in 4 years.
It couldn't be any clearer.

 

[Guts]

a big difference between Leftwich’s dumbass play calling and Canales. I’m not even saying Canales is some great play caller, but he’s still a lot better than Leftwich

The Bucs Oline has been much better too

 

[RicoG]

a big difference between Leftwich’s dumbass play calling and Canales. I’m not even saying Canales is some great play caller, but he’s still a lot better than Leftwich

Yeah, you could see that from the amount of time a WR is open. That's why Evans had a probowl year and Rachad is doing great out of the backfield. And so is Mayfield, but he's a bit of all over the map. He's not consistently good.

In Brady's last year, the ball had to come out so fast and he pretty much had to feather every throws into tight windows.

 

[VectorPrime]

The Bucs Oline has been much better too

And yet they’ve won only one additional game compared to last year and there is an asterisk to that because in the last game last season the Bucs sat the starters because the division was locked up. Thats why they ended 8-9 instead of 9-8

 

[sb1]

And yet they’ve won only one additional game compared to last year and there is an asterisk to that because in the last game last season the Bucs sat the starters because the division was locked up. Thats why they ended 8-9 instead of 9-8

Brady's only losing season* has an asterisk for that reason. Annoying they counted that as a loss for him even though he left the game with a lead...

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Well, we at the Tom Brady forum could forsee this day coming (Belichick being forced out and the Pats near the bottom of the league) the moment Brady walked out the door. Or more accurately, the year before when BB refused to grant Brady a multiyear contract so that he can retire a Patriot, and Kraft gave BB his stamp of approval.

When you have fundamentally flawed ways of doing things and you still wind up winning six Super Bowls, you aren't encouraged to learn, grow or change.

Four years after driving Bill Parcells out of town, Kraft makes Drew Bledsoe the highest paid player in the history of the sport.

Eighteen years later, with a player actually worthy of such treatment, Kraft doesn't budge from his financial policy.

And he proceeds to meddle in the inevitable ensuing dysfunction.

Bill O'Brien was Kraft's idea. That's all you need to know.

Sports team owners typically know nothing about sports.

BTW isn't it amazingly ironic that John Y. Brown and Walter Brown shared the same surname?

Anyway, every Patriots ownership has been punctuated by egocentrism at the expense of common sense, the common good, and the well being and success of the franchise.

 

[RicoG]

Wow Bucs can make a serious run in the playoffs. They still have a core group of veterans from their last SB, plus they have a lot of young talent on rookie contracts. Quite a contrast to the talent level I see with the Pats. The sun is still shining on the Bucs past Brady, while it's still cold and dark for probably a few more years longer in Patriot land. The Pats are lost.

 

[Guts]

Wow Bucs can make a serious run in the playoffs. They still have a core group of veterans from their last SB, plus they have a lot of young talent on rookie contracts. Quite a contrast to the talent level I see with the Pats. The sun is still shining on the Bucs past Brady, while it's still cold and dark for probably a few more years longer in Patriot land. The Pats are lost.

It all depends on Baker and his level of play