Official 2022 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[1960Pats]

Of course, my primary interest in the Bucs is the return of the Creamsicles (which also taste great), as with us & Pat, only as a throwback.

Permanent restoration naturally would display some seriousness to either operation, and allow some pride (self esteem) for the players putting them on.

I used to drink a frozen drink many moons ago that the bartender called a creamsicle. It was a scoop of orange sherbet, a little bit of milk, some ice and a whole lot of booze put into a blender. I'm not sure of the recipe.

The best drink he made though was called a fudgsicle. That recipe I know. Vodka, Amaretto, Kahlua, chocolate ice cream, milk and ice. It was like being at Friendly's only we'd get hammered. Luckily we couldn't drink too many because they were so filling.

 

[RicoG]

Well the Pats have become what many of us predicted way back when BB would not sign Brady to a long term contract and the cumulative awful GM picks concerning drafting which resulted in essentially no probowlers of worth drafted since 2014.

So going back to TB and HOF. I was looking at the all time receiving leaders list and Mike is not a HOF yet to the chagrin of Tampa fans. Many of them think he's a HOF if he retired this year.

Outside a few exceptions on the long end ie Rice and Fitzgerald and short end ie Calvin Johnson,… almost all HOF receivers played between 12 to 15 years.

ME only has 10 years and doesn't have the stats and accolades Calvin Johnson had and what Tyreek Hill has. His only accolade is 10 1000+ yards to start a career,.. still Rice has the most at any point at 11.

ME needs 2 more years of 1000+ yards to get to HOF but likely not 1st ballot. The accolade is getting 12 1000+ to beat Rice.

ME needs 4 more years and 15000+ yards and 120+ TD to be 1st ballot. The fact is the offensive rules and extra game are padding WR stats thus he needs to be top 10 in both categories but closer to 5. He needs to show he is better than his contemporaries Hopkins, Adams, Allen, Diggs especially when another contemporary Tyreek right now is one level above them all.

1. 
   

 

[RicoG]

I only wanted Brady to leave cause not only was BB not going all in to win one last SB while the Pats had more then enough talent in 2019, his GM decision was getting worse and worse over the years.

You had a bunch of aging superstars, probowlers, and very good clutch players, Brady, Gronk, Amendola, Edelman, McCourty brothers, Gilmore, etc..and a bunch of youth downgrade to replace them,.. like Nkeal and no name TEs.

 

[RicoG]

Those of us who didn't have blinders wanted the best team possible for the Pats to win a last SB with Brady in 2019 and to mortgage the future for it. The team was trending to be awful anyways, so it should have been blown up in 2020 and a rebuild started, instead of a reload. So here we are in 2023, and the awful has arrived and a full rebuild is needed 4 years late.

 

[amfootball]

Those of us who didn't have blinders wanted the best team possible for the Pats to win a last SB with Brady in 2019 and to mortgage the future for it. The team was trending to be awful anyways, so it should have been blown up in 2020 and a rebuild started, instead of a reload. So here we are in 2023, and the awful has arrived and a full rebuild is needed 4 years late.

This is why Bill has to go. What a dumpster fire since Brady left.

 

[1960Pats]

Those of us who didn't have blinders wanted the best team possible for the Pats to win a last SB with Brady in 2019 and to mortgage the future for it. The team was trending to be awful anyways, so it should have been blown up in 2020 and a rebuild started, instead of a reload. So here we are in 2023, and the awful has arrived and a full rebuild is needed 4 years late.

My only hope was that Brady would finish his career here, which I'm sure was his choice too. Had that happened they probably wouldn't have won again but the team would have been much more enjoyable, won more and been in a better position now.

Instead there were a minority of fans here that wanted the guy who chased Brady away to get to finish his career with the Pats because HE deserved it. They also forced Ian into having to create a separate forum for Brady talk so they didn't have to face the music.

Bob's decision to take the cheap way out and side with Bill over Tom was one of his few mistakes but it was a doozy.

 

[1960Pats]

This is why Bill has to go. What a dumpster fire since Brady left.

It even harmed this forum and created a rift between fans.
The result of that blunder also brought us the tankheads, the most delusional "fans" of them all.

 

[VectorPrime]

If the Bucs host a playoff game this year I hope Brady is the honorary captain lol

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

My only hope was that Brady would finish his career here, which I'm sure was his choice too. Had that happened they probably wouldn't have won again but the team would have been much more enjoyable, won more and been in a better position now.

Instead there were a minority of fans here that wanted the guy who chased Brady away to get to finish his career with the Pats because HE deserved it. They also forced Ian into having to create a separate forum for Brady talk so they didn't have to face the music.

Bob's decision to take the cheap way out and side with Bill over Tom was one of his few mistakes but it was a doozy.

There are many fundamental flaws in Kraft's & Belichick's individual and collaborative modus operandi, which prevented us from winning 10 Super Bowls and being in fact arguably the greatest modern dynasty, which we aren't by a long shot.

I'm glad we aren't the St. Louis Stallions, or the Hartford Patriots for that matter, and happy we had so much good football to enjoy for two decades.

The correspondent accolades and adulation showered over the two of them are earned but largely blind.

Kraft is an excellent owner. Belichick is an excellent coach.

Now if I sit down and count the number of mind-numbingly terrible and obviously wrong managerial, strategic and aesthetic decisions made by these two by the time I got up my back would be extremely sore.

That they're old is not as relevant as the fact they will never change, grow or learn in several respects.

I personally believe that keeping Belichick as coach is by far best for our competitive chances going forward. Nobody lives forever but Belichick still brings more to the table than any other coach. The tipping point is he's here, if he wants to stay he should, and things turn around very quickly in sports. The Saints were 3-13 in 2005. They were in the NFCCG the very next year, and won the Super Bowl three years later.

If Kraft keeps Bill, and Bill adjusts his miserable recent fatal personnel choices, there's potential the rest of this decade.

I think Belichick's experience, insight and positive traits outweigh his shortcomings.

And...the mediots calling for his departure are total morons. Always a safe bet to do the opposite of whatever they're spewing.

 

[RicoG]

If the Bucs host a playoff game this year I hope Brady is the honorary captain lol

It seems likely that they'll host a least one game. Baker has been on fire. He was meh most of his career.. but what a difference a good OC, a decent OL, and a couple star WRs make.

I would say the Pats should have gone for Baker but they don't have Evans and Godwin. Which is a lesson for the Pats,.. they needed to have decent offensive pieces before swinging for a QB. Otherwise they'll just ruin another QB. They should role with Zappe as a stop gap QB over the next couple years.

 

[VectorPrime]

It seems likely that they'll host a least one game. Baker has been on fire. He was meh most of his career.. but what a difference a good OC, a decent OL, and a couple star WRs make.

I would say the Pats should have gone for Baker but they don't have Evans and Godwin. Which is a lesson for the Pats,.. they needed to have decent offensive pieces before swinging for a QB. Otherwise they'll just ruin another QB. They should role with Zappe as a stop gap QB over the next couple years.

The Browns moving on from Baker will go down as a disaster. And it was bad to start with considering Watson being a perverted cretin.

Dude had two GREAT seasons with the Browns. And 2 meh seasons. He has a lot of talent and the Browns just went “**** it” and gave up.

 

[venecol]

Well the Pats have become what many of us predicted way back when BB would not sign Brady to a long term contract and the cumulative awful GM picks concerning drafting which resulted in essentially no probowlers of worth drafted since 2014.

So going back to TB and HOF. I was looking at the all time receiving leaders list and Mike is not a HOF yet to the chagrin of Tampa fans. Many of them think he's a HOF if he retired this year.

Outside a few exceptions on the long end ie Rice and Fitzgerald and short end ie Calvin Johnson,… almost all HOF receivers played between 12 to 15 years.

ME only has 10 years and doesn't have the stats and accolades Calvin Johnson had and what Tyreek Hill has. His only accolade is 10 1000+ yards to start a career,.. still Rice has the most at any point at 11.

ME needs 2 more years of 1000+ yards to get to HOF but likely not 1st ballot. The accolade is getting 12 1000+ to beat Rice.

ME needs 4 more years and 15000+ yards and 120+ TD to be 1st ballot. The fact is the offensive rules and extra game are padding WR stats thus he needs to be top 10 in both categories but closer to 5. He needs to show he is better than his contemporaries Hopkins, Adams, Allen, Diggs especially when another contemporary Tyreek right now is one level above them all.

I disagree that he needs 4 more years and 15k yds. You're ignoring his TDs. He already has 94 (2 more than Gronk). There are only 10 players with >100 TDs. All of them are or will be (Fitzgerald & Gates) in the HOF.

He has more TDs than any receiver that began between 2013-2015. He also has more yards than any of his contemporaries except Hopkins (who has 1 more year).

Looking at yds for those ten 100 TD players:

Rank	Player	TD	Yds	Rank
1	Jerry Rice+	197	22,895	1
2	Randy Moss+	156	15,292	4
3	Terrell Owens+	153	15,934	3
4	Cris Carter+	130	13,899	13
5	Marvin Harrison+	128	14,580	9
6	Larry Fitzgerald	121	17,492	2
7	Antonio Gates	116	11,841	31
8	Tony Gonzalez+	111	15,127	6
9	Tim Brown+	100	14,934	7
	Steve Largent+	100	13,089	19
11	Don Hutson+	99	7,991	112
12	Mike Evans	94	11,588	34
13	Davante Adams	92	10,609	45
	Rob Gronkowski	92	9,286	66
15	Isaac Bruce+	91	15,208	5

He's likely to end this season with 96 career TDs and 11,743 yards (passing Calvin Johnson). Two more years should give him 115 TDs and 14,091 yds. There's only 6 players with >110 TDs & >14k yds. He also has a SB (only 2 of those guys have one).

You're correct on his lack of accolades. That'll definitely hurt his chances no matter what. Playing for the suck ass Bucs didn't help him. Brady saved his hof chances w/ that SB win.

 

[Guts]

I disagree that he needs 4 more years and 15k yds. You're ignoring his TDs. He already has 94 (2 more than Gronk). There are only 10 players with >100 TDs. All of them are or will be (Fitzgerald & Gates) in the HOF.

He has more TDs than any receiver that began between 2013-2015. He also has more yards than any of his contemporaries except Hopkins (who has 1 more year).

Looking at yds for those ten 100 TD players:

Rank	Player	TD	Yds	Rank
1	Jerry Rice+	197	22,895	1
2	Randy Moss+	156	15,292	4
3	Terrell Owens+	153	15,934	3
4	Cris Carter+	130	13,899	13
5	Marvin Harrison+	128	14,580	9
6	Larry Fitzgerald	121	17,492	2
7	Antonio Gates	116	11,841	31
8	Tony Gonzalez+	111	15,127	6
9	Tim Brown+	100	14,934	7
	Steve Largent+	100	13,089	19
11	Don Hutson+	99	7,991	112
12	Mike Evans	94	11,588	34
13	Davante Adams	92	10,609	45
	Rob Gronkowski	92	9,286	66
15	Isaac Bruce+	91	15,208	5

He's likely to end this season with 96 career TDs and 11,743 yards (passing Calvin Johnson). Two more years should give him 115 TDs and 14,091 yds. There's only 6 players with >110 TDs & >14k yds. He also has a SB (only 2 of those guys have one).

You're correct on his lack of accolades. That'll definitely hurt his chances no matter what. Playing for the suck ass Bucs didn't help him. Brady saved his hof chances w/ that SB win.

Extreme consistency by Evans

 

[amfootball]

I disagree that he needs 4 more years and 15k yds. You're ignoring his TDs. He already has 94 (2 more than Gronk). There are only 10 players with >100 TDs. All of them are or will be (Fitzgerald & Gates) in the HOF.

He has more TDs than any receiver that began between 2013-2015. He also has more yards than any of his contemporaries except Hopkins (who has 1 more year).

Looking at yds for those ten 100 TD players:

Rank	Player	TD	Yds	Rank
1	Jerry Rice+	197	22,895	1
2	Randy Moss+	156	15,292	4
3	Terrell Owens+	153	15,934	3
4	Cris Carter+	130	13,899	13
5	Marvin Harrison+	128	14,580	9
6	Larry Fitzgerald	121	17,492	2
7	Antonio Gates	116	11,841	31
8	Tony Gonzalez+	111	15,127	6
9	Tim Brown+	100	14,934	7
	Steve Largent+	100	13,089	19
11	Don Hutson+	99	7,991	112
12	Mike Evans	94	11,588	34
13	Davante Adams	92	10,609	45
	Rob Gronkowski	92	9,286	66
15	Isaac Bruce+	91	15,208	5

He's likely to end this season with 96 career TDs and 11,743 yards (passing Calvin Johnson). Two more years should give him 115 TDs and 14,091 yds. There's only 6 players with >110 TDs & >14k yds. He also has a SB (only 2 of those guys have one).

You're correct on his lack of accolades. That'll definitely hurt his chances no matter what. Playing for the suck ass Bucs didn't help him. Brady saved his hof chances w/ that SB win.

I love Michael Evans. I was really hoping back when he was a free agent before Brady got there that the patriots would make a run at by him. Silly me thinking that Bill would actually spend on a top receiver.

Chris Godwin would have been the perfect patriot. We saw that up close with the way Brady was able to work with him coming out of the slot. But again Bill was too cheap to go out and pay for this level of receiver.

 

[RicoG]

I disagree that he needs 4 more years and 15k yds. You're ignoring his TDs. He already has 94 (2 more than Gronk). There are only 10 players with >100 TDs. All of them are or will be (Fitzgerald & Gates) in the HOF.

He has more TDs than any receiver that began between 2013-2015. He also has more yards than any of his contemporaries except Hopkins (who has 1 more year).

Looking at yds for those ten 100 TD players:

Rank	Player	TD	Yds	Rank
1	Jerry Rice+	197	22,895	1
2	Randy Moss+	156	15,292	4
3	Terrell Owens+	153	15,934	3
4	Cris Carter+	130	13,899	13
5	Marvin Harrison+	128	14,580	9
6	Larry Fitzgerald	121	17,492	2
7	Antonio Gates	116	11,841	31
8	Tony Gonzalez+	111	15,127	6
9	Tim Brown+	100	14,934	7
	Steve Largent+	100	13,089	19
11	Don Hutson+	99	7,991	112
12	Mike Evans	94	11,588	34
13	Davante Adams	92	10,609	45
	Rob Gronkowski	92	9,286	66
15	Isaac Bruce+	91	15,208	5

He's likely to end this season with 96 career TDs and 11,743 yards (passing Calvin Johnson). Two more years should give him 115 TDs and 14,091 yds. There's only 6 players with >110 TDs & >14k yds. He also has a SB (only 2 of those guys have one).

You're correct on his lack of accolades. That'll definitely hurt his chances no matter what. Playing for the suck ass Bucs didn't help him. Brady saved his hof chances w/ that SB win.

Just to clarify. I said 2 more years of 1000 plus yards to be a HOF but not 1st ballot. 4 more years to be 1st ballot.

For some reason, TDs doesn't seem to be as glorified as yards. I don't agree with it but that's my observation. HoF metric currently has ME at 65 rank and doesn't give much points to TDs compared to yards. Also, ME is leading the league in TDs and he isn't even top 10 in fan voting for probowl. If he was leading in yards, you can bet he'll be top 3.

 

[RicoG]

I love Michael Evans. I was really hoping back when he was a free agent before Brady got there that the patriots would make a run at by him. Silly me thinking that Bill would actually spend on a top receiver.

Chris Godwin would have been the perfect patriot. We saw that up close with the way Brady was able to work with him coming out of the slot. But again Bill was too cheap to go out and pay for this level of receiver.

It's interesting how Brady clicked better with Godwin over ME, but Mayfield it's the opposite.

Although from the hilights I've seen, I don't think it was because of Brady. ME is just a better player this year. Maybe it's the OC Canales and the scheme. Leftwhich was a frustrating OC.

It's crazy that the Bucs have 2 top paid receivers. Bill I guess didn't feel the need to pay for WRs cause Brady just made it work with whoever. The only time Brady struggled with lack of talent was 2019 and another year, maybe 2006?

 

[aluminum seats]

which prevented us from...being in fact arguably the greatest modern dynasty, which we aren't by a long shot.

Who is?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I disagree that he needs 4 more years and 15k yds. You're ignoring his TDs. He already has 94 (2 more than Gronk). There are only 10 players with >100 TDs. All of them are or will be (Fitzgerald & Gates) in the HOF.

He has more TDs than any receiver that began between 2013-2015. He also has more yards than any of his contemporaries except Hopkins (who has 1 more year).

Looking at yds for those ten 100 TD players:

Rank	Player	TD	Yds	Rank
1	Jerry Rice+	197	22,895	1
2	Randy Moss+	156	15,292	4
3	Terrell Owens+	153	15,934	3
4	Cris Carter+	130	13,899	13
5	Marvin Harrison+	128	14,580	9
6	Larry Fitzgerald	121	17,492	2
7	Antonio Gates	116	11,841	31
8	Tony Gonzalez+	111	15,127	6
9	Tim Brown+	100	14,934	7
	Steve Largent+	100	13,089	19
11	Don Hutson+	99	7,991	112
12	Mike Evans	94	11,588	34
13	Davante Adams	92	10,609	45
	Rob Gronkowski	92	9,286	66
15	Isaac Bruce+	91	15,208	5

He's likely to end this season with 96 career TDs and 11,743 yards (passing Calvin Johnson). Two more years should give him 115 TDs and 14,091 yds. There's only 6 players with >110 TDs & >14k yds. He also has a SB (only 2 of those guys have one).

You're correct on his lack of accolades. That'll definitely hurt his chances no matter what. Playing for the suck ass Bucs didn't help him. Brady saved his hof chances w/ that SB win.

My takeaway from this is Don Hutson is the GOAT.

Guy was a monster.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Who is?

If we don't consider Celtics-Yankees-Canadiens-Packers 'modern'?

I think the best thing we've got going for us is longevity, obviously this century.

We were the best team for two decades; you had to knock us off to get a title.

The obstacles to the Patriots being considered the legendary, iconic franchise they should be is the world pretending they sucked before, which they didn't, and...the...you know...['l', 'o', 'g'...& 'u', 'n', 'i', 'f', ...

 

[venecol]

Just to clarify. I said 2 more years of 1000 plus yards to be a HOF but not 1st ballot. 4 more years to be 1st ballot.

For some reason, TDs doesn't seem to be as glorified as yards. I don't agree with it but that's my observation. HoF metric currently has ME at 65 rank and doesn't give much points to TDs compared to yards. Also, ME is leading the league in TDs and he isn't even top 10 in fan voting for probowl. If he was leading in yards, you can bet he'll be top 3.

Yea, I agree. Personally, I think ME has been undervalued his whole career. He'll just continue to consistently produce.