NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION Monday Night Football Week 5: Bakers vs Jimmies

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Just got back from the game...had seats around midfield high up, so it was a great bird’s eye view. I wish I had the football acumen of a lot of posters on here. Anyway, here’s what I thought I saw:

• (Obviously) the 49ers overall performance was impressive. Kyle Shanahan has taken another team to the next level. The NFC West is going to be quite a dogfight with three very good teams.
• Shanahan absolutely owned Freddie Kitchens, and I’m not sure if Kitchens was a great choice for HC. Virtually every offensive and defensive play appeared to be a huge mismatch from a personnel standpoint. Kitchens has been coaching for 20 years and only became promoted to OC in 2018. Something doesn’t sit right about that...is he just completely out of his league now intellectually?
• Jimmy Garoppolo does “not fit” into Kyle Shanahan’s offense. I know, they are undefeated and JG is winning, so what’s the problem? It isn’t a problem so much as an observation. We’ve seen JG play for the Patriots in a read/react offense and how great he seemed early on at reading coverages, moving in the pocket to buy time, and utilizing his talent in intermediate passes (10-15 yards). This Shanahan offense is very much a “system.” Maybe this will just be a great union between QB and head coach, but it is strange watching JG seemingly take a step back in responsibility.
• Mayfield cannot be 6’1”. I’m not going to totally pile on since it was the worst game of his career so obviously the reviews are going to be poor. But his height is clearly a factor seeing the field, being forced to scramble, and getting balls batted.

 

[Vindicate]

How are we defining "mouthy" and " did great"? I'm not asking to be difficult, but because it matters to the question (think Jim McMahon, for example).

I get from where you're coming -

By mouthy, I guess someone whose remarks may have encouraged others to... Well, hate him. Supremely full of themselves, kind of like how you were describing Mayfield. And by "great" I mean someone, who at the same time, was a great leader to his team and led them to some level of success (be it chunks of winning seasons, post-season appearances, and maybe an SB appearance).

I'll have to read about McMahon, my knowledge hardly stretches before 2010, which is why I'm all ears right now haha.

Edit - Maybe it might help if I provide Brady as a foil (opposite of what I'm looking for in terms of mouthy). He is known for trash talk in the game, but very rarely says stupid **** to the media, always gives praise to every player and blade of grass that will be on the field on Sunday, etc.,)

 

[Brick27]

And Indy after watching their poise, and execution last night, has become, believe it or not, a kind of second AFC fave.

 

[Deus Irae]

I get from where you're coming -

By mouthy, I guess someone whose remarks may have encouraged others to... Well, hate him. Supremely full of themselves, kind of like how you were describing Mayfield. And by "great" I mean someone, who at the same time, was a great leader to his team and led them to some level of success (be it chunks of winning seasons, post-season appearances, and maybe an SB appearance).

I'll have to read about McMahon, my knowledge hardly stretches before 2010, which is why I'm all ears right now haha.

Edit - Maybe it might help if I provide Brady as a foil (opposite of what I'm looking for in terms of mouthy). He is known for trash talk in the game, but very rarely says stupid **** to the media, always gives praise to every player and blade of grass that will be on the field on Sunday, etc.,)

I hear you. It's just difficult to answer without parameters. Marino was famous for being a pain in the ass. Namath was famous for whoring around almost nightly, and for owning a night club that was allegedly a big mob place (he even briefly retired over it). Elway refused to play for the Colts, and allegedly got Dan Reeves fired as his head coach. Favre was a talker, and a pain in the ass. And so on...

 

[rochrist]

There have been a fair share of chirpy skill players, especially receivers and CB's, who do amazing, even if they're an ass.

Has there been a single QB who was mouthy and did great? Actually genuinely interested in knowing - I can't think of one.

Jim McMahon? He was about as mouthy as they come. And of course there's always 'I jest wanna kiss you' Broadway Joe.

 

[rochrist]

How are we defining "mouthy" and " did great"? I'm not asking to be difficult, but because it matters to the question (think Jim McMahon, for example).

Jim McMahon was pretty interesting. He was constantly injured (my recollection anyway), but when he was healthy he was capable of being pretty great.

Edit: Nevermind. I went back and looked at his stats. I must have been on some pretty heavy drugs in the 80s.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Isn’t Rivers known to run his mouth constantly too? That guy is super annoying, especially considering how many times he’s had to shut up after embarrassing himself.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Why didn't Kitchen give the LT help? Bosa destroyed that LT.

 

[TommyD4207]

Why didn't Kitchen give the LT help? Bosa destroyed that LT.

There's no helping that LT.

 

[Keyser Söze]

What a dumpster fire franchise. Blows my mind they thought Kitchens was a good hire. Can’t say they don’t have talent because they have more than most.

 

[Uptown]

I remember one year (early '90s?) the Pats had their bye the first week of the season because their season opener in Miami was cancelled by a hurricane. Then it was 16 games straight.

Yep ‘92.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Jim McMahon was pretty interesting. He was constantly injured (my recollection anyway), but when he was healthy he was capable of being pretty great.

Edit: Nevermind. I went back and looked at his stats. I must have been on some pretty heavy drugs in the 80s.

No you are right.

McMahon was capable of good qb play. He didn't have a lot of great talent supporting him (except Sweetness) and the offense they ran was out of the Bronze Age

 

[TommyD4207]

No you are right.

McMahon was capable of good qb play. He didn't have a lot of great talent supporting him (except Sweetness) and the offense they ran was out of the Bronze Age

He was pretty damned good at BYU. With the Bears, he had Walter Payton (as his top rusher and receiver), and Willie 'Go Route' Gault - and that's about it.

I guess with that defense, it really didn't matter.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He was pretty damned good at BYU. With the Bears, he had Walter Payton (as his top rusher and receiver), and Willie 'Go Route' Gault - and that's about it.

I guess with that defense, it really didn't matter.

His numbers at BYU were obscene

They were QB U in the 80s.

 

[primetime]

Isn’t Rivers known to run his mouth constantly too? That guy is super annoying, especially considering how many times he’s had to shut up after embarrassing himself.

Rivers has had a Hall of Fame career and has been in the league for nearly two decades. He gets fired up on the field like Brady does but doesn't run his mouth in the media. Mayfield's a new generation quarterback where it's all playing for social media. Which I have no problem with, it's all just entertainment, but it certainly makes it more entertaining when he falls spectacularly flat.

 

[PP2]

Yes, we are, and that changes nothing. Belichick spent one season (2000) cleaning up Carroll's mess, and then by his second season he had a team that was ready to compete for--and win--the Super Bowl.

The team wasn't ready in 2001. They lost 3 of their first four games. It wasn't until after game 10 (when they were 5-5) that they went on that mini-streak and won the Superbowl.

Hence, two seasons, IMO.

 

[Viper652]

Just got back from the game...had seats around midfield high up, so it was a great bird’s eye view. I wish I had the football acumen of a lot of posters on here. Anyway, here’s what I thought I saw:

• (Obviously) the 49ers overall performance was impressive. Kyle Shanahan has taken another team to the next level. The NFC West is going to be quite a dogfight with three very good teams.
• Shanahan absolutely owned Freddie Kitchens, and I’m not sure if Kitchens was a great choice for HC. Virtually every offensive and defensive play appeared to be a huge mismatch from a personnel standpoint. Kitchens has been coaching for 20 years and only became promoted to OC in 2018. Something doesn’t sit right about that...is he just completely out of his league now intellectually?
• Jimmy Garoppolo does “not fit” into Kyle Shanahan’s offense. I know, they are undefeated and JG is winning, so what’s the problem? It isn’t a problem so much as an observation. We’ve seen JG play for the Patriots in a read/react offense and how great he seemed early on at reading coverages, moving in the pocket to buy time, and utilizing his talent in intermediate passes (10-15 yards). This Shanahan offense is very much a “system.” Maybe this will just be a great union between QB and head coach, but it is strange watching JG seemingly take a step back in responsibility.
• Mayfield cannot be 6’1”. I’m not going to totally pile on since it was the worst game of his career so obviously the reviews are going to be poor. But his height is clearly a factor seeing the field, being forced to scramble, and getting balls batted.

Mayfield was measured at 6-0

 

[PP2]

What a dumpster fire franchise. Blows my mind they thought Kitchens was a good hire. Can’t say they don’t have talent because they have more than most.

A rookie HC with a rookie QB is a bad combination. One is going to allow the other to develop bad habits.

Whoever takes over as the new HC is going to have to undo all the bad habits Baker is piling up right now.

 

[maust]

A rookie HC with a rookie QB is a bad combination. One is going to allow the other to develop bad habits.

Whoever takes over as the new HC is going to have to undo all the bad habits Baker is piling up right now.

Except Mayfield isn't a rookie, it just seems that way.

 

[PP2]

Except Mayfield isn't a rookie, it just seems that way.

I know. He's still playing like a rookie- still trying to get by on talent. Shows no significant improvement from last season.