Man in the Arena Discussion

[Guts]

Take out Magic or LeBron

Magic I can see but I do not see how you can take out Lebron. He got Cleveland of all cities a championship being down 3-1 against a record breaking Warriors team. He's also been to 9 finals and i think will own the scoring record when its all said and done which is pretty impressive.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Football is the most popular sport, so the fact that Rugby is my favorite has no relevance here. We're talking about public perception

Orr better than Gretzky and Lemieux. Interesting take.

Bird isn't top 5, as much as I love him. He's in the Hakeem, Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, Oscar and Wilt tier, not in the top 5 with MJ, LeBron, Kobe, Magic and Kareem.

Yep. If I'm starting a NHL team I'm taking an 18 yo Orr.

Interesting take on your NBA top 5.

Public perception determines importance? Maybe I'm one of those guys who doesn't care what the public thinks.

 

[VectorPrime]

Huh? How is Brady more important than Bird or Orr? Under what context? Titles?

...every measurable that exists playing in the most popular sport in the United States?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Magic I can see but I do not see how you can take out Lebron. He got Cleveland of all cities a championship being down 3-1 against a record breaking Warriors team. He's also been to 9 finals and i think will own the scoring record when its all said and done which is pretty impressive.

CLE had Wackjob and Love. It's not like he did it all by himself. Larry had McHale and Chief. Magic had Worthy and Kareem.

If whatshisface doesn't get suspended not sure CLE wins.

LeBron is def top 10 but I'll take LB in his prime.

 

[RobertWeathers]

...every measurable that exists playing in the most popular sport in the United States?

What are those? The sports are different.

So it's a popularity contest that determines it?

 

[VectorPrime]

What are those? The sports are different.

So it's a popularity contest that determines it?

I can only think you’re being willfully obtuse. Brady played at an elite level for a longer period of time than those two. He and the Pats won considerably more championships and had far more Finals and Final 4 appearances than those two. He owns literally every record his position can achieve. And before him the Patriots hadn’t won a single title, which is certainly not the case with those two. Also football is a far more popular sport so yes the cultural impact is greater.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I can only think you’re being willfully obtuse. Brady played at an elite level for a longer period of time than those two. He and the Pats won considerably more championships and had far more Finals and Final 4 appearances than those two. He owns literally every record his position can achieve. And before him the Patriots hadn’t won a single title, which is certainly not the case with those two. Also football is a far more popular sport so yes the cultural impact is greater.

Eras are different. Sports are different. Fan base is different. Situation is different. Circumstances are different. To make it apples to apples is off base.

The NBA was in a dark place before Larry. He and Magic changed it.

Orr changed the sport. He was the first marketable face of hockey and changed the position of defensemen.

I would agree Tom has more career accomplishments but it doesn't make him more important or impactful on the industry.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Magic I can see but I do not see how you can take out Lebron. He got Cleveland of all cities a championship being down 3-1 against a record breaking Warriors team. He's also been to 9 finals and i think will own the scoring record when its all said and done which is pretty impressive.

Just curious, when it comes to that “plucky underdog” 2015-16 Cleveland team, who was heavily favored to win the championship that preseason after building a “super team”?

It’s quite the narrative that they “achieved the impossible” by finally playing to their potential. People cite this accomplishment as LeBron’s crowning achievement, simply because the Warriors overachieved all season.

I see we’re now back around again in 2021 with the Warriors dominating with ball movement and a selfless superstar like Curry while LeBron’s Lakers try to figure out how every player can become submissive to LeBron, making them worse, but still just good enough due to the high talent level.

 

[Steve102]

Sports are different. Fan base is different. Situation is different. Circumstances are different. To make it apples to apples is off base.

The NBA was in a dark place before Larry. He and Magic changed it.

Orr changed the sport. He was the first marketable face of hockey and changed the position of defensemen.

I would agree Tom has more career accomplishments but it doesn't make him more important or impactful on the industry.

Larry and Magic absolutely brought the NBA back. If you remember correctly, the finals weren't even live TV in the early 1980's.

Tom's greatness on the field has not translated culturally. No one is running out to buy TB12 Method. Kids aren't buying Uggs because Tom Brady sells them. He has not had the effect on pop culture that a MJ or Lebron or Kobe had. He's the greatest football player ever, but that has not made him a cultural icon.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Tom's greatness on the field has not translated culturally. No one is running out to by TB12 Method. Kids aren't buying Uggs because Tom Brady sells them. He has not had the effect on pop culture that a MJ or Lebron or Kobe had. He's the greatest football player ever, but that has not made him a cultural icon.

This is Tom’s fault. He didn’t have major endorsement deals and for whatever reason wasn’t seen/talked about much during his time in NE aside from the Gisele/Bridget story.

And the Uggs were a massive fail. They were only popular among young women and have a bad reputation.

 

[amfootball]

I can only think you’re being willfully obtuse. Brady played at an elite level for a longer period of time than those two. He and the Pats won considerably more championships and had far more Finals and Final 4 appearances than those two. He owns literally every record his position can achieve. And before him the Patriots hadn’t won a single title, which is certainly not the case with those two. Also football is a far more popular sport so yes the cultural impact is greater.

Brady is the greatest football player of all time. Case closed.

 

[sb1]

Eras are different. Sports are different. Fan base is different. Situation is different. Circumstances are different. To make it apples to apples is off base.

The NBA was in a dark place before Larry. He and Magic changed it.

Orr changed the sport. He was the first marketable face of hockey and changed the position of defensemen.

I would agree Tom has more career accomplishments but it doesn't make him more important or impactful on the industry.

I'd say Brady has innovated or changed the game of football if that's what you mean? He's a completely different kind of QB than the type of guy that would be considered a star in the past at that position and redefined greatness or potential for greatness at his position. That's why he can go to a new team and win right away and also win with not always the best talent around him.

Someone with a profile like Mac wouldn't have been touched with a 10 foot pole in the draft if Brady didn't come before him into the league.

And then there's the TB12 stuff and bringing a very different perspective to the sports world which athletes have bought into on training, nutrition and how long athletes can play at an elite level. It's working. Brady is doing things that should be unthinkable for athletes at his age.

No he doesn't have the branding power that Jordan has but who does? Tiger Woods? Beckham? That's about it I think.

 

[amfootball]

I'd say Brady has innovated or changed the game of football if that's what you mean? He's a completely different kind of QB than the type of guy that would be considered a star in the past at that position and redefined greatness or potential for greatness at his position. That's why he can go to a new team and win right away and also win with not always the best talent around him.

Someone with a profile like Mac wouldn't have been touched with a 10 foot pole in the draft if Brady didn't come before him into the league.

And then there's the TB12 stuff and bringing a very different perspective to the sports world which athletes have bought into on training, nutrition and how long athletes can play at an elite level. It's working. Brady is doing things that should be unthinkable for athletes at his age.

No he doesn't have the branding power that Jordan has but who does? Tiger Woods? Beckham? That's about it I think.

He is 44 and STILL has the number one selling jersey. If that is not a cultural icon spanning 3 generations of fans, I don't know who is.

 

[VectorPrime]

Larry and Magic absolutely brought the NBA back. If you remember correctly, the finals weren't even live TV in the early 1980's.

Tom's greatness on the field has not translated culturally. No one is running out to buy TB12 Method. Kids aren't buying Uggs because Tom Brady sells them. He has not had the effect on pop culture that a MJ or Lebron or Kobe had. He's the greatest football player ever, but that has not made him a cultural icon.

So because Manning took every endorsement under the sun from brands that appeal to Joe Sixpack I guess he was more important.

 

[Steve102]

This is Tom’s fault. He didn’t have major endorsement deals and for whatever reason wasn’t seen/talked about much during his time in NE aside from the Gisele/Bridget story.

And the Uggs were a massive fail. They were only popular among young women and have a bad reputation.

I think it's more to do with his personality. He doesn't come off as cool. More dorky.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think it's more to do with his personality. He doesn't come off as cool. More dorky.

He does strike me as a really weird dude.

 

[amfootball]

He does strike me as a really weird dude.

It is fair to wonder if his personality got muted due to Bill and the Patriot way of keeping everything so ho hum, "on to the next game."

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady game used jersey just sold for $320K...pretty impressive BUT can anyone spot the error in one of his inscriptions?

 

[Steve102]

He does strike me as a really weird dude.

I think that early on, he was one of us, a regular guy. At some point, thru his marriage to Giselle or his relationship with Guerrero, he stopped being a regular guy and became who he is now. Avocado eating, pliable man of the world. Perhaps it's the loss to the Giants that aspired him to make these changes? Who knows. But he alludes to the loss possibly driving him.

 

[amfootball]

Brady game used jersey just sold for $320K...pretty impressive BUT can anyone spot the error in one of his inscriptions?

7x SB champs. Should have been 7x Super Bowl champ, singular as he is the only one with 7. No org has that many.