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Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

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I love Brady....
I was with Brady from day #1 & I was delighted when Belichick stayed with Brady over Bledsoe.

If I had my way Garoppalo would have been traded before the draft, but that did not happen.

I may not agree with it, but I believe Garoppalo will take over for Brady either after this year or next year.

I didn't decide to take Garoppalo over Brady, but one thing I know for certain.

Bill Belichick usually makes the right decision & I trust his opinion over anyone "including myself" on the Patsfans forum.

I have faith Belichick will make the right decision & I will accept his decision.

If people start booing Brady, you have the right to *****, until then stop complaining about the fans.

Right on Joe.

I'll go you one better.

I was one who thought "crap, nice drive in that SB, but really? What Tom Brady did just gave you goose-bumps too, Bill? It was a good year of excellent not-effing-up, and a good game of just-get-out-there-and-sling-it, but this is the face of the franchise you're throwing away! I mean, granted he's 30, but... ?"

Yeah, Bill tends to get these calls right.

Caveat, duh, I know Drew had only gotten us to 1 SB and never won it. Hey, he was just part of a plan to "bring a championship to NE and that's what he did," right?

Anyway, Bill had seen them both in practice and in action for the high point of Drew's career and for all of TFB's (at that point short) career.

When BB had that decision in front of him it was way less of a sure thing than it is in retrospect. But he saw what the "best chance to win" would be. So, Drew ends up heaving the ball for 4,300 yards for Buffalo. Meanwhile, TFB posts an "improvement" over 2001 and throws for 600 fewer yards than Bledsoe, along with 14 interception and a lower passer rating... I bet the 2002 9-7 season had a couple people thinking, "oh great. the reincarnation of Tony Eason. Oh well... my dream is fulfilled as a Pats fan, we won a SB. It's about time it was our turn, once."

Then BB pulls that Milloy stunt at the beginning of the 2003 season, it was like "Dude. Are you trying to build a dynasty in Buffalo?"

This team hated its coach LOL.

Well, nah, it looks like this team didn't hate its coach so bad they wouldn't win another two SBs for him back-to-back... not to mention all the SB appearances to follow. And apparently 28 TDs, 3700 some yards, 14 INTs, and a one (year)-and-done postseason career wasn't TFB's "ceiling."

Yeah, it turns out that Brady was (and is) the GOAT. A lot of you guys just believed your eyes during the 2001 playoffs, me, I was like "careful what you wish for... we might have just cut the wrong QB."

So that said, all that I've established is that I'm okay with being wrong. I'm quite willing to say "oh yeah I remember back in 2017 when I thought that Belichick might not just be keeping JG around as some kind of red herring, that was funny now that it's 2022 and TFB has 5 more SB rings..."

BTW, I noticed something in doing that write-up.... 9-7 in 2002 was a tiebreaker year, as was 11-5 under Cassel in 2008; 2001 was a tie-breaker year where we didn't win the division, just the Super Bowl.

So if you think about it, the only year in the last 15 where the Patriots outright lost the division was that first Brady SB season. Unless I missed something, since 2001, nobody has won more games than the Patriots in the AFCE since that first Brady (as starter) season.

But that first season, yes it all came out okay, but TFB didn't even "will" that team to winning the division outright. Of course, he kicked ass when it counted, but that team looked very much like they billed themselves, "preferring to be introduced as a team." Drew got us there in the AFCCG. Tom won it. No gaudy stats. Criticized as a "system quarterback."

Almost custom-scripted to part ways on good terms (and no this is not a conspiracy theory).

So, right around the 31-0 revenge game vs. Buffalo in 2003, I stopped questioning whatever Bill Belichick decides.

Whichever way it goes, and whenever it goes that way, I am good.
 
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by the way... can't get enough of this clip...

 
By the way, if you believe every Drew interview ever, he and Tom are friends... here's his reaction to Defamegate... when the time comes, and I'm not saying that's next year, the year after, whenever... Well I hope he has the same kind of relationship with the next guy. But with all Drew/Tom went through (Drew nearly dies, Tom keeps the season alive, Drew comes back and keeps us alive in the AFCCG...) like I said that relationship couldn't be scripted to come out better.

 
If BB cuts Brady, it will almost definitionally be "even if the fans want him." He could be 80, and it would still be "even if fans want him."

This -- and the draft value BB reportedly places on JG -- that makes me think these guys might be on to something.

In BB I trust. I don't know about avocado shakes. LOL


Sure....sure...you can follow whomever you wish but it will be you and your fellow brothers who will march blindly onto the battlefield with Naram-Sin, "King of the four quarters" or in JG's case, " King of the six quarters" only to watch the once great dynasty fall into a world of darkness and game day thread chaos.

Me? Well I'm Scottish and a descendant of the Gaelic clans . We are battle tested and have weathered many of your betrayers in the past. We have followed our great leaders from Wallace to Brady into victory after victory only to watch them betrayed by Robert the Bruce and Robert the Kraft.

We will always stand as brothers but history will divide us into those who followed a proven leader and those who betrayed him for a nugget of hope.
 
Yet they were loyal to him. Imagine how loyal a fan base should be to the greatest of all time within 4 months of watching him play the best SB e we by a QB to deliver championship #5.

Maybe Bill will trade him and their will be a spate of ritual suicides among fans.
 
Sure....sure...you can follow whomever you wish but it will be you and your fellow brothers who will march blindly onto the battlefield with Naram-Sin, "King of the four quarters" or in JG's case, " King of the six quarters" only to watch the once great dynasty fall into a world of darkness and game day thread chaos.

Me? Well I'm Scottish and a descendant of the Gaelic clans . We are battle tested and have weathered many of your betrayers in the past. We have followed our great leaders from Wallace to Brady into victory after victory only to watch them betrayed by Robert the Bruce and Robert the Kraft.

We will always stand as brothers but history will divide us into those who followed a proven leader and those who betrayed him for a nugget of hope.

Goosebumps. I just got a vision of the NFLPA rep-du-jour on horseback with blue paint on half his face, shouting "They can take our lives, but they can't take our FREEEEEE AGENCYYYYYY"

Now THAT would get their position out there on CTE .
 
Oh but to the point of you post... Certainly not marching in support of JG, more in support of BB.
 
Oh but to the point of you post... Certainly not marching in support of JG, more in support of BB.

Gustaf V could not have more diplomatically neutral if he had tried. Of course "Neutral" becomes somewhat dubious when you're selling iron ore, issuing "rights of passage" permits and wearing a #10 Jersey which matches your JG PJ's.
 
Listening to Bledsoe , I have to wonder WHY this goddamned scumbag shytheel azzole punk lying little rich kid sub-moron Goodell is doing STILL associated with the NFL. He SHOULD be wearing a number and playing somebody's belt loop biatch in a federal correctional facility. What a grotesque, criminal scumbag of gigantic proportions Roger Stokoe Goodell is.
 
You're saying Belichick should cut Brady even if the fans want him? That's what happened with Kosar.
I am saying nothing about belichicks decision, which likely will be to stick with Brady until he has nothing left.
I am talking about the loyalty fans owe Brady.
 
I love Brady....
I was with Brady from day #1 & I was delighted when Belichick stayed with Brady over Bledsoe.

If I had my way Garoppalo would have been traded before the draft, but that did not happen.

I may not agree with it, but I believe Garoppalo will take over for Brady either after this year or next year.

I didn't decide to take Garoppalo over Brady, but one thing I know for certain.

Bill Belichick usually makes the right decision & I trust his opinion over anyone "including myself" on the Patsfans forum.

I have faith Belichick will make the right decision & I will accept his decision.

If people start booing Brady, you have the right to *****, until then stop complaining about the fans.
Fans saying get rid of Brady one year too early rather than one year too late are disrespectful of what he had done for this team and fan base. I will talk about that when I see it not on a timetable you want. Clear?
 
Gustaf V could not have more diplomatically neutral if he had tried. Of course "Neutral" becomes somewhat dubious when you're selling iron ore, issuing "rights of passage" permits and wearing a #10 Jersey which matches your JG PJ's.

Holy crap, Gustaf V... LOL, you made me google. Welp, guess I should be glad I'm not Quisling or something.

Look, it's the offseason. Everybody will shut up about this unless God forbid injury factors in once the games start.

But the multi-year outlook inherently includes a moment when the Patriots choose to move on from Brady.

Brady has "willed this team to victory" so many times, and he is so meticulously focused on extending his NFL durability, that it is very likely that he will disagree that it's time to hang them up.

This moment is coming for all of us, whether this year or 5 years from now.

I've been very clear that I think they appear to think highly of JG. I've also been clear that that could have been a head fake. We only see 6 quarters; the Foxborough staff also has a ton of practice looks. I love him as our backup this year.

As our contract-ologists can tell any of us, we could shuffle around money (AKA lose cap space, present and future,) and make the money work to keep them both for maybe 1 year. So, whether now or at that point, there's a possible decision coming regarding this specific configuration of QBs.

And YES I'm neutral! I don't make these calls. The guy who's proven himself perhaps the best maker-of-such-calls in the league is making this call.

Brady's the ultimate force multiplier. Not the consistent stat leader physical freak in every category, just the winner a lot. (And by the way, he's proven himself capable of competing in every category at the top level, and kicking everybody's butt in terms of indicators like interceptions/accuracy/speed of release.)

The value of Brady is he can do all that without some kind of all-star cast around him.

Nobody in his right mind roots for losing TFB. But I can't go full-on "Dear Leader" with him either.

That's why I keep saying I'm glad it's not my decision, whether now or in 2022 or 2027 when he's 50 or whatever. Unless he stinks up the joint to the level of an 8-8 season, I don't see myself saying "No doubt about it, it's time."

So pardon me my doubt, when what we are talking about is a comparison of uncertainties.

3 months and a week left... LOL

SF is a perfect fit if it comes to it. Get him the hell out of the conference, never mind the division. You can have as amicable a parting as you want, it'll still be a kick in the sac to him. Then he'll come back for his HOF induction ceremony. If SF plays AT NE, the crowd might even not root for the home team (I haven't checked the head-to-head schedule rotation by division, please forgive me...)

Brady transcends... but transcending reason does not strike me as the style of any GM or coach worth his salt in the NFL. BB is worth his salt. The incentive to continue with Brady continues to diminish despite his accomplishments, because there is what pension actuaries call a "charge for the passage of time."

Brady ain't havin' that. I think that at some point, he will end up playing in another uniform. My perfect ending? We have a slight dip to say 10-6 for one year, so it's not really a SB year, then we bounce back to the 14-2 level. Meanwhile TFB gets himself a ring in another uniform and then falls off the cliff.... Because in 2015, even his "buddy" Bledsoe was saying how great Paymeaton was, because he did it with 2 different teams, and he is the system (as opposed to TFB, who works within 1 system). Well, we're into GOAT territory now by acclamation/voice vote, you don't even need to count the votes. Everybody else is a distant second (which by the way goes to Montana, thank you very much).

Am I rooting for that? Can't bring myself to do so. But that seems most likely to be the outcome (TFB playing elsewhere, not a SB win w/SF).

Now, will I name his replacement and the year that it happens? Hell no. I don't know. Anybody here who claims they do are full of it. No man knoweth the hour or the day blah blah blah.

Will I say that JG shows promise? Sure. So would most NFL coaches/GMs.

I could construct an argument from recent moves. The loading up on defense. The reported draft pick demands BB linked to JG. I don't really want any of that to be true, so I won't play that game.

I'll just say I want to know what I don't, and the future remains exactly as it was at the start of this novel... an unknown.
 
Holy crap, Gustaf V... LOL, you made me google. Welp, guess I should be glad I'm not Quisling or something.

Look, it's the offseason. Everybody will shut up about this unless God forbid injury factors in once the games start.

But the multi-year outlook inherently includes a moment when the Patriots choose to move on from Brady.

Brady has "willed this team to victory" so many times, and he is so meticulously focused on extending his NFL durability, that it is very likely that he will disagree that it's time to hang them up.

This moment is coming for all of us, whether this year or 5 years from now.

I've been very clear that I think they appear to think highly of JG. I've also been clear that that could have been a head fake. We only see 6 quarters; the Foxborough staff also has a ton of practice looks. I love him as our backup this year.

As our contract-ologists can tell any of us, we could shuffle around money (AKA lose cap space, present and future,) and make the money work to keep them both for maybe 1 year. So, whether now or at that point, there's a possible decision coming regarding this specific configuration of QBs.

And YES I'm neutral! I don't make these calls. The guy who's proven himself perhaps the best maker-of-such-calls in the league is making this call.

Brady's the ultimate force multiplier. Not the consistent stat leader physical freak in every category, just the winner a lot. (And by the way, he's proven himself capable of competing in every category at the top level, and kicking everybody's butt in terms of indicators like interceptions/accuracy/speed of release.)

The value of Brady is he can do all that without some kind of all-star cast around him.

Nobody in his right mind roots for losing TFB. But I can't go full-on "Dear Leader" with him either.

That's why I keep saying I'm glad it's not my decision, whether now or in 2022 or 2027 when he's 50 or whatever. Unless he stinks up the joint to the level of an 8-8 season, I don't see myself saying "No doubt about it, it's time."

So pardon me my doubt, when what we are talking about is a comparison of uncertainties.

3 months and a week left... LOL

SF is a perfect fit if it comes to it. Get him the hell out of the conference, never mind the division. You can have as amicable a parting as you want, it'll still be a kick in the sac to him. Then he'll come back for his HOF induction ceremony. If SF plays AT NE, the crowd might even not root for the home team (I haven't checked the head-to-head schedule rotation by division, please forgive me...)

Brady transcends... but transcending reason does not strike me as the style of any GM or coach worth his salt in the NFL. BB is worth his salt. The incentive to continue with Brady continues to diminish despite his accomplishments, because there is what pension actuaries call a "charge for the passage of time."

Brady ain't havin' that. I think that at some point, he will end up playing in another uniform. My perfect ending? We have a slight dip to say 10-6 for one year, so it's not really a SB year, then we bounce back to the 14-2 level. Meanwhile TFB gets himself a ring in another uniform and then falls off the cliff.... Because in 2015, even his "buddy" Bledsoe was saying how great Paymeaton was, because he did it with 2 different teams, and he is the system (as opposed to TFB, who works within 1 system). Well, we're into GOAT territory now by acclamation/voice vote, you don't even need to count the votes. Everybody else is a distant second (which by the way goes to Montana, thank you very much).

Am I rooting for that? Can't bring myself to do so. But that seems most likely to be the outcome (TFB playing elsewhere, not a SB win w/SF).

Now, will I name his replacement and the year that it happens? Hell no. I don't know. Anybody here who claims they do are full of it. No man knoweth the hour or the day blah blah blah.

Will I say that JG shows promise? Sure. So would most NFL coaches/GMs.

I could construct an argument from recent moves. The loading up on defense. The reported draft pick demands BB linked to JG. I don't really want any of that to be true, so I won't play that game.

I'll just say I want to know what I don't, and the future remains exactly as it was at the start of this novel... an unknown.

Just so you know I was just having fun with your posts. I don't mind your position at all. My position is that if Brady continues to play at an elite level he will remain the starting QB otherwise it's possibly forfeiting Super Bowl runs. A Super Bowl run during the Brady's last two or however many years is worth the same, if not more dynasty/legacy wise, as a SB run under JG except we don't know if JG can get them that far.

But yeah, I don't know the future either. I would rather Brady played his last game as a Patriot and endure an 8-8 schedule than watch him get traded. That's just me but I also know BB would never knowingly let that happen which I understand as well.

I think Brady traded to the Texans would be dangerous and could result in a deep playoff run. A Texans Pats AFCCG would be brutal.

Btw: While in Asia I worked under a Swedish guy and the other US service guys and I would give him **** every time he used the word "neutral" no matter the context. hahaha "You must put the car in neutral" "What is that Peter?.... is that slightly in first or almost in second?"
 
Just so you know I was just having fun with your posts. I don't mind your position at all. My position is that if Brady continues to play at an elite level he will remain the starting QB otherwise it's possibly forfeiting Super Bowl runs. A Super Bowl run during the Brady's last two or however many years is worth the same, if not more dynasty/legacy wise, as a SB run under JG except we don't know if JG can get them that far.

But yeah, I don't know the future either. I would rather Brady played his last game as a Patriot and endure an 8-8 schedule than watch him get traded. That's just me but I also know BB would never knowingly let that happen which I understand as well.

I think Brady traded to the Texans would be dangerous and could result in a deep playoff run. A Texans Pats AFCCG would be brutal.

Btw: While in Asia I worked under a Swedish guy and the other US service guys and I would give him **** every time he used the word "neutral" no matter the context. hahaha "You must put the car in neutral" "What is that Peter?.... is that slightly in first or almost in second?"

I knew you were just playing with me, but ain't nothin' in the middle of the road but yellow lines and dead armadillos, so I figured I would get super super defensive about it.

Maybe there are some JG fans here, I doubt it. Most who say hey, it's gonna happen sometime, are Patriots fans, not Brady fans... although it's hard for anybody, because if you're not a Brady fan, how the hell are you a football fan at ALL?

So, I guess put me down for "almost in reverse."

I teased a Danish guy (I think) recently about going to a gathering of Scandanavians, who traditionally get together on the longest night of the year. I was like "You're seriously going to surround yourself with Scandanavians in the middle of the longest night of the year?" Um, like, because depression and suicide reputation.

That turns out to be something you can't do according to our HR seminar.
 
A good question to ask is this: if
The goal is to maximize championships while Brady is here, why would the Patriots ever do anything with anything other than the short term in mind? In other words, why wouldn't they always be in GFIN mode?

The fact that they live in both the short term AND the long term is evidence that they are either planning for success beyond Tom Brady, or they think that Brady will be here a long time still.


probably because the goal is not 'to maximize championships while Brady is here'
 
probably because the goal is not 'to maximize championships while Brady is here'

I would agree. Which is why it's entirely possible that they're thinking about preparing best for life after Brady, which, to the shock of some around here, may include the possibility of letting Brady go even if he has a good year or two left, if by doing so it gives them the best chance at having another great QB to replace him. (obviously this depends on whether they think that JG is that guy)

And that thinking along these lines is not unappreciative of, or disrespectful towards, Brady.

I realize that some people around here can't possibly imagine how this could be.
 
....which, to the shock of some around here, may include the possibility of letting Brady go even if he has a SUPER BOWL or two left, if by doing so it gives them the best chance at having another great QB to replace him. (obviously this depends on whether they think that JG is that guy)

And that thinking along these lines is not unappreciative of, or disrespectful towards, Brady.

I realize that some people around here can't possibly imagine how this could be.

Edited for hyperbole

But that's the chance you take, letting him go. Again, it's all probability. I mean, unless Ernie Adams makes the call.

"I do not know the secrets of the Old One, but I do not think that he plays dice."
-- Albert Einstein
 
I would agree. Which is why it's entirely possible that they're thinking about preparing best for life after Brady, which, to the shock of some around here, may include the possibility of letting Brady go even if he has a good year or two left, if by doing so it gives them the best chance at having another great QB to replace him. (obviously this depends on whether they think that JG is that guy)

And that thinking along these lines is not unappreciative of, or disrespectful towards, Brady.

I realize that some people around here can't possibly imagine how this could be.


it has to come sooner or later and the rule 'a year too soon is better than a year too late' applies now more than ever

I don't know what his deal is........does he want to keep playing until he really hurts something and then staggers around like Joe Montana.......I'm thinking he's done if they win the SB this year........head off into the sunset with back to back and never look back....don't need the money, still have your health....I'm sure he can keep busy
 
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