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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by farn, Jul 13, 2019.

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  1. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BB drafted, developed, signed and played Tom in a program/offense in which he could flourish. BB owns the culture, coaching, strategy and personnel.

    To say BB sucks without Tom is unfair.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  2. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    Here is Harbaughs record.
    11 seasons 7 playoff berths
    1 championship
    6 playoff wins on the other 10 years (10-6 overall)

    The most negative part of his record is that in the last 4 years he’s gone 32-32 and only made the playoffs once, and was one and done.

    In the last 6 he is 50-46 only made the playoffs twice and only has 1 post season win.

    First 5 years
    54-26
    Made the playoffs every year, went 9-4 in post season and won a SB.

    First 5 years vs last 6 years look strikingly different.
     
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  3. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    One might argue BB inherited a 2000 roster with bad contracts he was locked into. Salary Cap hell. Most of his changes were in place by 2001.

    The roster built on top of BB's core group of players (including convincing Ozzie Newsome to draft Ray Lewis) won the Super Bowl in 2000. To take it a step further Bill recommended his former player Ozzie Newsome to become GM to Art Model
     
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  4. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The mental toughness factor too. I’ve never see a QB ballsy enough to attempt many of Brady’s passes while staring elimination in the face.
     
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  5. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    You're missing my point if you think I'm saying Tom Brady is not great.
     
  6. Ivan

    Ivan Hall of Fame Poster

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    I’m not suggesting Belichick is responsible for Brady’s Unreal clutch abilities but I do think the singular focus both have, as well as the understanding between them makes it work perfectly. One of the qualities Brady has perfected as a QB is his ability to run games so as to choke out opponents ability to come back, his ability to manage the clock and make key plays to keep drives going puts all the onus on opponents to perform perfectly to come back, and it’s reflected in his record when leading at the half or starting the 4th quarter. People always look at passing yards and TD passes, but it’s all those important intangibles that really add up to him becoming the GOAT.
     
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  7. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would just say Flacco is way below “average Joe” level. His stats would be average in the 1980s. He sucks though like any QB will have an occasional hot streak.
     
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  8. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not only is it unfair, it's ridiculous.
     
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  9. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    Neither Belichick nor Brady would be anywhere near where they are now without each other. Same deal with Walsh/Montana, Johnson/Aikman, Lombardi/Starr, or Noll/Bradshaw.
     
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  10. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    I suppose it’s a consideration. I also think over an 11 year period who you have/had doesn’t mean so much. If Flacco was that bad he should have replaced him earlier. Also he was handed a load of talent on defense, the ol and the running game. I don’t think those things diminish the good either.
    To me when you take over a team the first couple years are a hand that is dealt to you (as far as limitations or making it easier to succeed) but in the long run it’s what you build. After a period of time you are your results. That how I see it at least.
     
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  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great coach...maybe not such a great talent evaluator. Everyone knew that contract was a huge disaster waiting to happen.
     
  12. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    I always lean heavy on results and put less stock in opinions about how much is who’s fault or credit.
    That’s just me, I know it’s popular to try to assign blame or credit, I’m just not into that.
     
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  13. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    Land_Of_Make_Believe.jpg

    Let's pretend in the year 2000 the GB Packers had Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady on their roster. and the New England Patriots had Brett Farve and Aaron Rodgers (remember pretend land). The coaching staffs and rosters (with the exception of the 4 above) for both teams are the same as they were before we went to make believe land.

    Which organization wins the most championships in this span? My answer is the New England Patriots.
     
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  14. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Pro Bowl Player

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    God I can't wait for camp to start....
     
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  15. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    LMAO!
     
  16. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    lol... sometimes. a little fantasy land that ends up in a positive for the Pats confuses the BB haters.
     
  17. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They would just as well with Manning/Luck, Favre/Rodgers, or Brees?
     
  18. Ivan

    Ivan Hall of Fame Poster

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    Interesting post, and I think you are right, in part because I don’t think Brady ever would have gotten the opportunity Belichick entrusted him with. If Green Bay has just given Bledsoe the first 100 million deal there is no way Brady gets a shot, even if Mo Lewis went all the way to Green Bay to make the hit.
     
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  19. Ivan

    Ivan Hall of Fame Poster

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    I don’t think so, with the others there was always high rd picks, Brady was a 6th rd pick taking the job away from a 100 million dollar 1st overall pick. That doesn’t happen often.
     
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  20. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    That certainly played into my reasoning. Mike Sherman would not have had the balls to play a 3rd string QB (Brady) over 2nd stringer Doug Pederson. And even if he did, Bledsoe would have had his job back as soon as he was healthy.
     
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