Bill Belichick's coaching tree

[TomPatriot]

Where did Vrabel learn how to coach?

8 years playing under Belichick, 4 years coaching at Houston under Bill O'Brien. And Romeo Crennel was the assistant head coach of all people.

You tell me.

He's more of a Belichick disciple than McDermott is a Andy Reid guy.

Look at the people he learned from: Belichick, Crennel, O'Brien.

And he works for Jon Robinson.

 

[TomPatriot]

What's interesting is Bill's GM/scouting tree:






A parting comment from Flores was his high regard for Belichick's messaging consistency, and we know Belichick is HUGE on messaging, as indicated by his praise of coaches he has worked under who he felt were incredible at it. This is in lockstep with creating a culture.

So while Bill might not be super effective at passing on coaching prowess, he certainly seems to impart knowledge on the organizational side of things.

Licht and Robinson stand out in the list.

 

[holyredeemer]

What does it matter whether or not coaches develop coaches who go on to do bigger things? How is that any indication on how good of a coach one is? Bills job is to use his coaches in the capacity he needs them to succeed for HIS purposes. It’s not like a corporate environment where I find an associate that has a high eq, so I train him to move on into a different lob to benefit the company. That makes me look good because I am providing talent to the same company. No coach owes anything to the NFL. A coach should put his staff in a position to help the team succeed. Period. They move on to the Texans, Fins, Jets, Lions etc… who gives a **** what they do after that? I used to think a coaching tree mattered to one’s legacy, but nowadays I really don’t care who came from where or where they’re going as long as when they wear the flying Elvis they are doing all they can to win.

 

[SouthernPatriot]

I didn't dismiss Saban's career. I just made the distinction between college and the NFL which is pretty relevant to this thread given we are talking about coaching trees of NFL coaches.

I have no idea why you are hung up on trying to put Vrabel into Bill's coaching tree. No one has him as part of his coaching tree because he didn't coach for Bill. If you want to try to monkey wrench him in because he coached under Bill O'Brien go ahead but that's not how coaching trees work.

Yes you did, you said it wasn’t hard to be a good coach when you recruit the best players. Maybe I missed something, but that is not a compliment, it is indeed dismissing his winning accomplishments.

 

[amfootball]

Yes you did, you said it wasn’t hard to be a good coach when you recruit the best players. Maybe I missed something, but that is not a compliment, it is indeed dismissing his winning accomplishments.

I was comparing winning in college vs winning in the NFL. It is far easier to win at the college level because the field is not leveled like it is the NFL.

 

[amfootball]

So why is Vrabel's Ohio State experience so relevant here if Saban's LSU/Alabama experience isn't?

I wasn't the one who brought up Saban being relevant to Bill. Another poster did.

Still, throw out Ohio State if you want and Vrabel's coaching tree in the NFL still does not include Bill.

 

[TomPatriot]

What does it matter whether or not coaches develop coaches who go on to do bigger things? How is that any indication on how good of a coach one is? Bills job is to use his coaches in the capacity he needs them to succeed for HIS purposes. It’s not like a corporate environment where I find an associate that has a high eq, so I train him to move on into a different lob to benefit the company. That makes me look good because I am providing talent to the same company. No coach owes anything to the NFL. A coach should put his staff in a position to help the team succeed. Period. They move on to the Texans, Fins, Jets, Lions etc… who gives a **** what they do after that? I used to think a coaching tree mattered to one’s legacy, but nowadays I really don’t care who came from where or where they’re going as long as when they wear the flying Elvis they are doing all they can to win.

If anything, coaches that can’t win as HCs anywhere else enhances Bill’s legacy because he won with coaches who never went on to win anything.

 

[TomPatriot]

I was comparing winning in college vs winning in the NFL. It is far easier to win at the college level because the field is not leveled like it is the NFL.

Except you bleed players every year in college at a faster rate than the pros.

Alabama was hardly a powerhouse in the decade before Saban. They only had winning seasons in 5 out of 10 of those seasons. If it’s so easy to recruit the way Saban recruits, everybody could do it. Just sayin’

Vrabel isn’t in Bill’s coaching tree. He would be the first to acknowledge that. Still learned a lot from Bill though.

 

[1960Pats]

For all the **** he gets there's like 10-12 teams that use the same scouting system we do. I think Nagy mentioned it a while ago. I know we've had some stinkers but drafting prospects isn't easy at all. I've been recording my grades, researching, looking back on drafts for over 10 years and it's very difficult being consistently good.

Also to OP. Saban has to count for something. All time great in college, top 5 easy. Pros didn't work out but it might not have been the right time. Timing is everything. Also Saban might be the all-time go-to for secondary / coverage talk. Even over Bill. Another one on the other side is Ozzie. One of the all-time best upstairs.

I think I read somewhere that Bill learned as much about defense from Saban as Saban learned from him.
And you're right on the money with Newsome. Too bad he didn't come here with Bill.

 

[1960Pats]

Hard to believe that you actually believe what you're writing.

Belichick, Crennel, O'Brien

That's the Vrabel coaching tree.

It's just demented to believe it's Ohio State when he spent many years with these 3

I'm not sure that we can give credit to Bill for any success that any ex-player has had as a coach. If we're going to play that game then Vrable is part of the Perkins coaching tree and so is Kingsbury. Perkins is who hired and taught Belichick.

 

[amfootball]

Except you bleed players every year in college at a faster rate than the pros.

Alabama was hardly a powerhouse in the decade before Saban. They only had winning seasons in 5 out of 10 of those seasons. If it’s so easy to recruit the way Saban recruits, everybody could do it. Just sayin’

Vrabel isn’t in Bill’s coaching tree. He would be the first to acknowledge that. Still learned a lot from Bill though.

Saban is the best college football coach. No doubt.

 

[1960Pats]

What does it matter whether or not coaches develop coaches who go on to do bigger things? How is that any indication on how good of a coach one is? Bills job is to use his coaches in the capacity he needs them to succeed for HIS purposes. It’s not like a corporate environment where I find an associate that has a high eq, so I train him to move on into a different lob to benefit the company. That makes me look good because I am providing talent to the same company. No coach owes anything to the NFL. A coach should put his staff in a position to help the team succeed. Period. They move on to the Texans, Fins, Jets, Lions etc… who gives a **** what they do after that? I used to think a coaching tree mattered to one’s legacy, but nowadays I really don’t care who came from where or where they’re going as long as when they wear the flying Elvis they are doing all they can to win.

What I've found is that we all learn from various sources and pick up bits and pieces of knowledge as we go. I'm sure it's the same for football coaches, people in your field or those in mine. Just because someone spent some time with Bill doesn't mean that person learned anything. Look at N'Keal Harry. I doubt that he's learned very much from Bill.

One thing I've noticed that Bill does and most HCs don't is take notes during games. In my years of coaching youth sports that's something that I found to be very helpful. If I didn't write something down during the heat of the moment I might not remember it.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not sure that we can give credit to Bill for any success that any ex-player has had as a coach. If we're going to play that game then Vrable is part of the Perkins coaching tree and so is Kingsbury. Perkins is who hired and taught Belichick.

So Vrabel is from the O'Brien coaching tree I guess.

I mean, I do think it's incredibly lame to give Perkins credit for Belichick when the FACT is Belichick credits mostly Parcells in his own biography.

But we shouldn't listen to the people who say who their biggest influences are I guess. Because Vrabel has named Belichick as his biggest influence in coaching, and this is even after Vrabel stopped talking to BB after the KC trade.

In an interview with Tanguay, Vrabel said that it was Belichick who gave him the guidance and advice to go immediately into coaching after he retired. Vrabel also said that they call to talk about coaching regularly, and that it's more that he calls to get advice from Belichick on aspects of coaching.

Beyond all that however, Vrabel said that in the last several years with the Patriots he actually did coach for them, by moving over to the scout team and coaching the scout team players after the regular practice. Vrabel knew even then that he was going to be a coach, and not only that, he was out there WITH the other coaches coaching.

Who do we give credit to for all this if not Belichick?

O'Brien?

 

[amfootball]

So Vrabel is from the O'Brien coaching tree I guess.

I mean, I do think it's incredibly lame to give Perkins credit for Belichick when the FACT is Belichick credits mostly Parcells in his own biography.

But we shouldn't listen to the people who say who their biggest influences are I guess. Because Vrabel has named Belichick as his biggest influence in coaching, and this is even after Vrabel stopped talking to BB after the KC trade.

In an interview with Tanguay, Vrabel said that it was Belichick who gave him the guidance and advice to go immediately into coaching after he retired. Vrabel also said that they call to talk about coaching regularly, and that it's more that he calls to get advice from Belichick on aspects of coaching.

Beyond all that however, Vrabel said that in the last several years with the Patriots he actually did coach for them, by moving over to the scout team and coaching the scout team players after the regular practice. Vrabel knew even then that he was going to be a coach, and not only that, he was out there WITH the other coaches coaching.

Who do we give credit to for all this if not Belichick?

O'Brien?

The whole exercise is pretty silly IMO. Bill was coaching in the NFL in 1975 but somehow his coaching tree rolls up to Parcells? And let's be honest, Bill's main educator was his dad. None of it is neat and clean but people get hung up on these trees like they mean something because it makes for good debate shows I guess.

 

[upstater1]

The whole exercise is pretty silly IMO. Bill was coaching in the NFL in 1975 but somehow his coaching tree rolls up to Parcells? And let's be honest, Bill's main educator was his dad. None of it is neat and clean but people get hung up on these trees like they mean something because it makes for good debate shows I guess.

So I'll listen to you about Belichick's life and influences instead of Belichick himself, how does that make any sense?

Ridiculous

AND let's be clear here: a coaching tree is all about where one became the coach they are today. Every single one of these coaches moved around.

So answer this: what tree does Vrabel fall under? (And don't laughably mention Ohio State again).

 

[amfootball]

So I'll listen to you about Belichick's life and influences instead of Belichick himself, how does that make any sense?

Ridiculous

AND let's be clear here: a coaching tree is all about where one became the coach they are today. Every single one of these coaches moved around.

So answer this: what tree does Vrabel fall under? (And don't laughably mention Ohio State again).

Not sure why you are so testy about this to be honest. It honestly doesn't even matter. Coaching trees are made up of guys who have coached for other guys. Vrabel never coached for Bill therefore he is not part of his tree. It's not the influencing tree, it's the coaching tree.

I never once claimed that Bill did not influence Vrabel. I just simply pointed out more than once as have others to you, that Vrabel never coached for Bill therefore he is not part of his tree.

Your issue is not with me it's with how coaching trees are formulated.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I think I read somewhere that Bill learned as much about defense from Saban as Saban learned from him.
And you're right on the money with Newsome. Too bad he didn't come here with Bill.

Yea they're both giants all the way around. I think Bill is a little better when it comes to building & developing inside/out whereas I'd give the edge to Saban the other way around but it's almost impossible to quantify on the different planes.

One of my favorite quotes from Nick ... "if everybody does it wrong, it's right"

 

[upstater1]

Not sure why you are so testy about this to be honest. It honestly doesn't even matter. Coaching trees are made up of guys who have coached for other guys. Vrabel never coached for Bill therefore he is not part of his tree. It's not the influencing tree, it's the coaching tree.

I never once claimed that Bill did not influence Vrabel. I just simply pointed out more than once as have others to you, that Vrabel never coached for Bill therefore he is not part of his tree.

Your issue is not with me it's with how coaching trees are formulated.

So you're claim is he's part of O'Brien's tree

What a joke, ridiculous

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Saban is the best college football coach. No doubt.

or should we say, recruiter.

 

[farn]

BB always says his goal is to win games. He has done that at an unbelievable clip.

Things BB hasn’t mentioned were goals : winning by a certain margin, style, coach of the year awards, coaching tree accolades…