Belichick criticism mega-thread

[Biffins]

Making any long lasting judgements at this point may be premature, but Belichick's legacy will be diminished if he has no success over the 5 years or so while Brady wins a Super Bowl or 2.

It already is. Noone can take away his titles. Legacy is a more nebulous concept. All this media talking about how it was Brady not BB, that’s the kind of stuff that shapes how one is remembered in posterity and how one’s legacy is built. Bill’s is now tarnished.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It already is. Noone can take away his titles. Legacy is a more nebulous concept. All this media talking about how it was Brady not BB, that’s the kind of stuff that shapes how one is remembered in posterity and how one’s legacy is built. Bill’s is now tarnished.

Posterity/Legacy are shaped by 3 individual- but interwoven elements

1. Media/Mass Perception/Shaped Narrative
2. Facts/History/Events/Impact
3. Time/Shifting of evolutionary societal thought/viewpoint

What is "tarnished" exactly?

 

[crawhammer]

I dont think if this was any other coach he would be getting killed like this. you think andy reid gets slammed like this ? As an example there is barely a mention of his son's actions all week from anywhere. Peopel dont like BB and were waiting for 20 yrs for this.

Belichick comes across like a major douche. I don't see how one could feel bad about all the crap he's taking right now as he pretty much had it coming. He looks really bad right now and the only thing that might change it is if the Patriots are competitive next season and playing in meaningful postseason games. I mean he looks like a gigantic dope for not clutching onto Brady for dear life. Even with the roster falling apart around Brady, Bill could have gotten away with well I stuck it out with Brady (because I had to) and it just didn't work out. Now he more resembles duplicitous pond scum with personal turmoil.

With what Brady accomplished this season in Tampa Bay with Bruce Arians, who's very much a players coach and does things seemingly a lot differently than Belichick, the task of turning this thing around in New England is looking a lot more ominous for Bill. Money being equal, or even close to equal, I'm not sure what the draw will be for players to sign on with the Patriots. You tell me.

Some people have accused Brady of going to a Super Team, which is nonsense since they were 7-9 a season ago, had one pro bowler this season, and many of their main contributors by season's end were players only having joined the Bucs because of Brady. I think the Super Team is more likely to be coming next season for the Bucs. I can see a lot of free agents looking to get in on the winning, and fun, in Tampa Bay.

 

[crawhammer]

What is "tarnished" exactly?

The impression of Belichick as the GOAT head coach. His success as a Head coach is necessarily tied to having Brady as his quarterback. It's arguable whether or not he's even been an average head coach without Brady. However, it's not arguable whether he's an elite head coach without Brady because he's definitely NOT that. And now that Brady has shocked the sports world with another Super Bowl title in his very first season with another head coach (who was not so highly regarded), the pressure is on Belichick to prove himself or his legacy will be tarnished no doubt about it.

 

[Biffins]

Belichick comes across like a major douche. I don't see how one could feel bad about all the crap he's taking right now as he pretty much had it coming. He looks really bad right now and the only thing that might change it is if the Patriots are competitive next season and playing in meaningful postseason games. I mean he looks like a gigantic dope for not clutching onto Brady for dear life. Even with the roster falling apart around Brady, Bill could have gotten away with well I stuck it out with Brady (because I had to) and it just didn't work out. Now he more resembles duplicitous pond scum with personal turmoil.

With what Brady accomplished this season in Tampa Bay with Bruce Arians, who's very much a players coach and does things seemingly a lot differently than Belichick, the task of turning this thing around in New England is looking a lot more ominous for Bill. Money being equal, or even close to equal, I'm not sure what the draw will be for players to sign on with the Patriots. You tell me.

Some people have accused Brady of going to a Super Team, which is nonsense since they were 7-9 a season ago, had one pro bowler this season, and many of their main contributors by season's end were players only having joined the Bucs because of Brady. I think the Super Team is more likely to be coming next season for the Bucs. I can see a lot of free agents looking to get in on the winning, and fun, in Tampa Bay.

Yes I can see Bucs dominating from the offset now that they have gelled a lot better. And clearly Brady and Gronk are having a lot more fun. They have even said as much. Maybe BB’s bs is not so necessary after all. The magic wasn’t in BB’s discipline. The magic was in Brady’s drive, clutch and steel, and that’s now found in fun Tampa Bay not grouchy New England.

 

[Biffins]

The impression of Belichick as the GOAT head coach. His success as a Head coach is necessarily tied to having Brady as his quarterback. It's arguable whether or not he's even been an average head coach without Brady. However, it's not arguable whether he's an elite head coach without Brady because he's definitely NOT that. And now that Brady has shocked the sports world with another Super Bowl title in his very first season with another head coach (who was not so highly regarded), the pressure is on Belichick to prove himself or his legacy will be tarnished no doubt about it.

Exactly and I fear the longer he coaches the more ammunition he gives to his detractors. The more mounting seasons if evidence of his own Brady-less mediocrity.

 

[Biffins]

Posterity/Legacy are shaped by 3 individual- but interwoven elements

1. Media/Mass Perception/Shaped Narrative
2. Facts/History/Events/Impact
3. Time/Shifting of evolutionary societal thought/viewpoint

What is "tarnished" exactly?

1 and 3. Thanks.

 

[Boomer B]

AFAIK it was widely reported that pats and brady had zero contract before the FA . They did talk before the season started in 2019 and once brady knew it wont work out he knew it was going to be is last season in NE. He even said so on the howard stern show.

Sorry, but the pre-FA call between Brady and Bill was widely reported. Bill had a final chance to get Tom to come back and he blew it.

Tom Brady-Bill Belichick phone call Tuesday ‘didn’t go well’

Brady and Belichick finally spoke about the quarterback’s upcoming free agency.

www.bostonherald.com

Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's recent phone call about upcoming free agency 'didn't go well,' per report

Brady and the Patriots appear to be far apart on a deal

www.cbssports.com

Report: First Free Agency Phone Call Between Tom Brady, Bill Belichick 'Didn't Go Well'

Tom Brady and Bill Belichick reportedly had a chat on the phone on Tuesday, a conversation that didn't produce much of anything.

boston.cbslocal.com

 

[Deus Irae]

Exactly and I fear the longer he coaches the more ammunition he gives to his detractors. The more mounting seasons if evidence of his own Brady-less mediocrity.

Here's the problem...

With only rare exceptions:

1. Elite QBs do not win SBs with more than one team (Brady, Peyton)
2. Elite HCs do not win SBs with more than one team
3. Elite HCs do not win SBs with more than one QB
4. Elite HCs do not win as many games without their elite QBs

So Bill's going to be swimming against the tide, and the modern sports media is not remotely fair when it comes to evaluating past v. present in this sort of analysis.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The impression of Belichick as the GOAT head coach. His success as a Head coach is necessarily tied to having Brady as his quarterback. It's arguable whether or not he's even been an average head coach without Brady. However, it's not arguable whether he's an elite head coach without Brady because he's definitely NOT that. And now that Brady has shocked the sports world with another Super Bowl title in his very first season with another head coach (who was not so highly regarded), the pressure is on Belichick to prove himself or his legacy will be tarnished no doubt about it.

Lombardi had Sonny Jurgensen after Starr. 0 SBs afterwards
Landry had Danny White after Staubach. 0 SBs afterwards
Noll had Cliff Stout and Mark Malone after TB12 v1. 0 SBs afterwards
Brown had Ken Anderson after Graham. 0 NFL titles afterwards
Shula had Marino after Griese. 0 SBs afterwards
Walsh had Deberg before Montana. 0 SBs before
Jimmy Johnson had old Marino/Jay Fiedler after Aikman. 0 SBs afterwards
Shanahan had Plummer after Elway. 0 SBs afterwards

The greatest coaches off All-Time won zip without their HoF QBs.

Spare me that manufactured, lazy narrative.

 

[RobertWeathers]

1 and 3. Thanks.

Try 1 for you which is lazy, short-sighted and impatient.

 

[Ring 6]

The impression of Belichick as the GOAT head coach. His success as a Head coach is necessarily tied to having Brady as his quarterback. It's arguable whether or not he's even been an average head coach without Brady. However, it's not arguable whether he's an elite head coach without Brady because he's definitely NOT that. And now that Brady has shocked the sports world with another Super Bowl title in his very first season with another head coach (who was not so highly regarded), the pressure is on Belichick to prove himself or his legacy will be tarnished no doubt about it.

If he isn’t the GOAT because his winning included having good players then please explain who is the GOAT now that he had his first sub 500 season in 20.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry, but the pre-FA call between Brady and Bill was widely reported. Bill had a final chance to get Tom to come back and he blew it.

Tom Brady-Bill Belichick phone call Tuesday ‘didn’t go well’

Brady and Belichick finally spoke about the quarterback’s upcoming free agency.

www.bostonherald.com

Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's recent phone call about upcoming free agency 'didn't go well,' per report

Brady and the Patriots appear to be far apart on a deal

www.cbssports.com

Report: First Free Agency Phone Call Between Tom Brady, Bill Belichick 'Didn't Go Well'

Tom Brady and Bill Belichick reportedly had a chat on the phone on Tuesday, a conversation that didn't produce much of anything.

boston.cbslocal.com

Lol at reporters telling you what happened on a phone call.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

incredible thread smh ! Some fan base we have.

Tom Brady Being Inducted Into HOF As A Buccaneer

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The greatest coaches off All-Time won zip without their HoF QBs.

Simms not a HOFer but BB won w/G-men with Hostetler.

 

[venecol]

Can't we all just get along?

Oops, wrong forum. I thought I was in Chiefs Planet.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Simms not a HOFer but BB won w/G-men with Hostetler.

He was DC but point taken

 

[Boomer B]

Lol at reporters telling you what happened on a phone call.

You know Curran is directly connected to Brady right? Curran is the one who said Brady placed that last call because he never wanted to leave here. On the call Bill acted like Tom was still an employee and said all we got is $22m for this year. That sealed it. If you want to close your eyes and ears so be it, but Curran has been right the last 3 years with his reports about Brady and his contract situation. If Bill wanted Tom he’d still be a Patriot.

First you said Tom never spoke to them. Now when I show multiple articles that they did talk you “lol”. You’ll keep moving the goalposts however you can so it’s fits your narrative that Bill didn’t bungle this and it was all on Tom for leaving. You’re wrong, plain and simple. Every post you make on the subject you dig the hole a little deeper and make yourself look more foolish.

 

[Ring 6]

You know Curran is directly connected to Brady right? Curran is the one who said Brady placed that last call because he never wanted to leave here. On the call Bill acted like Tom was still an employee and said all we got is $22m for this year. That sealed it. If you want to close your eyes and ears so be it, but Curran has been right the last 3 years with his reports about Brady and his contract situation. If Bill wanted Tom he’d still be a Patriot.

First you said Tom never spoke to them. Now when I show multiple articles that they did talk you “lol”. You’ll keep moving the goalposts however you can so it’s fits your narrative that Bill didn’t bungle this and it was all on Tom for leaving. You’re wrong, plain and simple. Every post you make on the subject you dig the hole a little deeper and make yourself look more foolish.

Brady came to krafts house before free agency began and told Kraft he was leaving. Kraft asked if they could do anything to keep him and he said no.
It’s not a narrative, it’s the fact of what happened.

 

[Ring 6]

You know Curran is directly connected to Brady right? Curran is the one who said Brady placed that last call because he never wanted to leave here. On the call Bill acted like Tom was still an employee and said all we got is $22m for this year. That sealed it. If you want to close your eyes and ears so be it, but Curran has been right the last 3 years with his reports about Brady and his contract situation. If Bill wanted Tom he’d still be a Patriot.

First you said Tom never spoke to them. Now when I show multiple articles that they did talk you “lol”. You’ll keep moving the goalposts however you can so it’s fits your narrative that Bill didn’t bungle this and it was all on Tom for leaving. You’re wrong, plain and simple. Every post you make on the subject you dig the hole a little deeper and make yourself look more foolish.

By the way none of the articles you linked or any other that exist say what you say they did.