Are there any first round prospects you really don't want?

[TheRazorsEdge]

Don't bring my man Rohan Davey into this ..2004 NFL Europe MVP and World Bowl winner.

 

[Zuma]

Are there any first round prospects you really don't want?​

Trey Lance

 

[Ivan]

I think this is a really strong first round overall, and while there are a few who I really want at # 15, Jones, Parsons, Paye, or Horn, I would still be happy with players like Vera-Tucker, Etienne, Najee Harris, Z. Collins, and J.Philips. They aren’t needs but I think they are going to be great players, and you can’t ever have enough great players. On the other hand I think some positions, such as QB could be so depleted as to not having a prospect worth that pick.

RB is not a need, that’s obvious, but this is likely Michel’s last season here, and RB’s get banged up a lot, so if they used their 1st on Etienne or Harris I would love it, as I see them as a power team using 2 TE,s and trying to eat up time and field position, so bringing in the best RB in the draft at #15 is a big win to me. Just keep running them out there and pounding on teams. Likewise the OL is in good shape, but Vera-Tucker is a really good prospect both inside and out, and I would be fine with him at #15, but that’s more an investment in the future. Zaven Collins also looks like a player who could fit right into the front 7, and I’d be happy with that. Some of these players are definitely going to be there, and we will see what they do, but I like their choices much more this year than most.

 

[upstater1]

Please go look at EVERY QB draft since 2000...(Wiki let's you sort by year and position).

Teams that NEED a QB draft them earlier, and many, many teams have done worse at QB drafting than the Pats - and that's while we had Brady. only time they really spent capital was Garoppolo, and if he could stay on the damned field (no indication that would be the case), that would have been an A+ second round pick.

The post was about drafting a guy in the 1st round. Many people peg Mills as a middle rounder, backup at best. It's an extreme reach, the likes of which only the Bills have made.

I'd like someone to give me an example of a QB who everyone had pegged as a middle rounder, and that some team drafted in the first round because they believed in him, and somehow he panned out and played well.

I can't think of a single one. I can think of many who failed, like Manuel and Losman. But there's been a lot of others too. Like Ponder. Freeman, Jason Campbell, maybe even Tebow is on this list. And Rex Grossman!

 

[upstater1]

I don't see how you can say that it's been nothing but misery. Everyone with the exception of Garoppolo was drafted as a clipboard holder. The jury is out on Stidham still. Cassel and Brissett were fine for their roles.

No starters except for Garoppolo.

 

[upstater1]

Because they don't bother to go an actually look at the list of QBs taken each year - out of the first round, there are about 10 who have done anything at all in the NFL, and one of them is Jimmy Garoppolo.

I don't think you've bothered to do any analysis.

What makes no sense is drafting a guy who is universally considered a 3rd rounder much earlier in the 1st round. Just because you drafted them in the first round, it doesn't make them better than they are. And Belichick doesn't have some keen insight that makes his evaluation of QBs any better than anyone else's. We know from the past he had first round grades on some of these QBs who busted.

 

[50-yard-line]

The post was about drafting a guy in the 1st round. Many people peg Mills as a middle rounder, backup at best. It's an extreme reach, the likes of which only the Bills have made.

I'd like someone to give me an example of a QB who everyone had pegged as a middle rounder, and that some team drafted in the first round because they believed in him, and somehow he panned out and played well.

I can't think of a single one. I can think of many who failed, like Manuel and Losman. But there's been a lot of others too. Like Ponder. Freeman, Jason Campbell, maybe even Tebow is on this list. And Rex Grossman!

That might be the post to which you responded, but no, that wasn't your post, which about the Patriots' inability to judge QB talent, which is not supported by their drafting.

 

[upstater1]

Yeah, I look at that list and include Hoyer, who was an UDFA, and I think the Pats have been pretty good at evaluating QBs in the draft. Upstarter should go and look at other teams drafts and compare them to the Pats' pick.

The year the Pats drafted Matt Cassel in the seventh round, the Redskins drafted Jason Campbell in the first. It took Cassel a number of years to become a starter, but when he did, he had a better career than Campbell.

Even the year the Pats whiffed and selected Ryan Mallett in the third round, the Titans drafted Jake Locker with the 8th pick, the Jags took Blaine Gabbert with the 10th pick, and the Vikings drafted Christian Ponder with the 12th pick (boy was that a bad QB draft). Now who whiffed more in that draft? The Patriots or the three other teams that drafted QB busts high in the first round?

You're making the argument for me. This is exactly my point. Guys like Ponder were in NO ONE's mock draft back then. These teams took a 3rd rounder and him a first rounder. They failed.

I looked at several mock drafts from the 2011 draft.

I didn't see one with Christian Ponder in the 1st round. Like this mock draft: 2011 NFL mock draft 3.0 | FOX Sports

Heck, the NEPdraft page had him in the mid 2nd round: 2011 NFL Mock Draft – Round 2 | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2017 NFL Draft

To me, Ponder is just another Manuel and Losman, a guy everyone had pegged for the 2nd or 3rd or even 4th, but was grabbed in the 1st by a team who thought they were smarter than everyone else.

 

[upstater1]

That might be the post to which you responded, but no, that wasn't your post, which about the Patriots' inability to judge QB talent, which is not supported by their drafting.

I have no idea what your sentence even means.

I was responding to someone advocating for Mills in the 1st round.

It is supported by their drafting since they took QBs when they didn't need one because the QBs had very high draft grades and they thought they were drafting value. Their assessments were bad and wrong.

 

[Rob0729]

You're making the argument for me. This is exactly my point. Guys like Ponder were in NO ONE's mock draft back then. These teams took a 3rd rounder and him a first rounder. They failed.

I looked at several mock drafts from the 2011 draft.

I didn't see one with Christian Ponder in the 1st round. Like this mock draft: 2011 NFL mock draft 3.0 | FOX Sports

Heck, the NEPdraft page had him in the mid 2nd round: 2011 NFL Mock Draft – Round 2 | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2017 NFL Draft

To me, Ponder is just another Manuel and Losman, a guy everyone had pegged for the 2nd or 3rd or even 4th, but was grabbed in the 1st by a team who thought they were smarter than everyone else.

How is a team reaching have to do with anything you are saying? The Vikings reached for Ponder so the Patriots suck at drafting QBs? Or the Pats should trade up and get a QB because ten years ago the Viking reached for Ponder? Not to be snarky, but one or even a handful of reaches don't mean anything.

How about Jake Locker? He wasn't a reach. Most mock drafts in 2011 had him going around where he was drafted and he was a far bigger bust than Ponder. How about Blaine Gabbert?

If you look at the 2011 draft, the third best QB to come out of that draft was arguably Tyrod Taylor and he went in the 6th round and he is a mediocre QB. I guess you could go with Kaepernick who was drafted in the fourth round, but he was a flash in the pan. And Andy Dalton , the second best QB in that draft, went in the second round.

The 2011 draft goes against your argument. There were four QBs drafted in the first round that year and only one was any good. Three of them were awful.

 

[Joker]

we're trading out of the 1st round....makes this thread moot

 

[Deus Irae]

Are there any first round prospects you really don't want?​

Yes, and thank goodness someone asked.

 

[mgteich]

Are there any first round prospects you really don't want?​

Trey Lance

That has been my gut feel. Lance seems to be the most likely to fail of the players that we might draft in the top 20.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Wr Bateman - we need avoid like the plague. Harry part 2.

fields - normally I would say because he is a one read qb aka Dwayne Haskins, but I am going to change it up. we need to avoid fields like the plague. No anticipation on his throws,

 

[captain stone]

In the first round of the draft, are there any prospects you REALLY don't want?

Yep...Anyone who's either a RB or Safety.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Bill Belichick: Matt Patricia has been heavily involved in Patriots' pre-draft process

When Matt Patricia was fired as head coach of the Lions and hired by the Patriots, he did not get the title of defensive coordinator, which had been his previous job in New England.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Cousins, you are really hung up on the OSU QB stigma....just because many out of OSU have flopped doesn't mean that Fields will flop. If anything, OSU is beyond DUE to produce a quality NFL QB.....

Yea. It's like when Michigan kept putting up mediocre QBs like Griese before Brady. There really aren't QB factories. But the best of all time, Brady and Montana, came from schools that at the time were power houses.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Bill Belichick: Matt Patricia has been heavily involved in Patriots' pre-draft process

When Matt Patricia was fired as head coach of the Lions and hired by the Patriots, he did not get the title of defensive coordinator, which had been his previous job in New England.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Not a confidence builder when Patricia doesn't have a history of success in personnel. The Pata have Eliot Wolf on the freaking staff as a consultant, the smart move is elevate this guy.

.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Fields and Lawrence, QBwise. I just don't trust big-time college programs to produce NFL championship caliber QBs. They spent too much time not having to really compete because their schools schedule chumps to make the boosters happy and to boost their rankings. They have to pass the Montana/Brady test if they're from a big school. Did they have to overcome anything? Did they always have to fight for what they got? Montana at ND and Brady at Michigan were not presumptive starters. Montana was third on the depth chart even going into his junior year. Brady was sixth (I think). Neither were drafted highly. They constantly worked to prove people wrong about them.

That is going to be missing from Fields and Lawrence.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Are there any first round prospects you really don't want?​

Asante Samuel Jr.!!!!! Yuck, yuck.

I love this guy; he destroys WRs, but...but he and the Patriots would not be a match made in heaven.